(09-07-2017, 07:39 PM)Duchess Wrote: Oh for sure. That's what the problem is. [/i][/size]

I agree with that shit, but all my friends are freakin out, cause "Michael Bennett" fuck him, he should have jumped on the train way before this.

Takes a minute for a movement to gather steam. Some are braver than others.

Some stories are true some not so much.

The University of Wisconsin has approved a policy that will suspend or expel students for participating in protests. How about that shit. If you want to be educated there you have to give up your right to free speech.

That is fucking ridiculous.

Well that's not exactly the policy as I understand it.

The disciplinary actions will be taken against students who disrupt or attempt to stop on campus speeches or presentations. It still allows for protest and assembly as I read the story - it just means you can't protest and assemble to shut down an event or prevent a speaker from talking. Want to protest in the quad and have your viewpoint heard? No problem and you won't be expelled. Want to protest in front of or in the lecture hall so people can't enter or hear they speaker? You're expelled. Seems simple enough and reasonable to me.

Basically, they're trying to prevent the stupid shit that has been happening at college campuses across the country and allow for the free exchange of ideas. What a novel concept!

Also it looks like it's a three strikes and you're out policy:

"University of Wisconsin System leaders approved a policy Friday that calls for suspending and expelling students who disrupt campus speeches and presentations, saying students need to listen to all sides of issues and arguments.

The Board of Regents adopted the language on a voice vote during a meeting at the University of Wisconsin-Stout in Menomonie. The policy states that students found to have twice engaged in violence or other disorderly conduct that disrupts others' free speech would be suspended. Students found to have disrupted others' free expression three times would be expelled."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/natio...story.html

(10-07-2017, 10:03 PM)Jimbone Wrote: Well that's not exactly the policy as I understand it.

The disciplinary actions will be taken against students who disrupt or attempt to stop on campus speeches or presentations. It still allows for protest and assembly as I read the story - it just means you can't protest and assemble to shut down an event or prevent a speaker from talking. Want to protest in the quad and have your viewpoint heard? No problem and you won't be expelled. Want to protest in front of or in the lecture hall so people can't enter or hear they speaker? You're expelled. Seems simple enough and reasonable to me.

Basically, they're trying to prevent the stupid shit that has been happening at college campuses across the country and allow for the free exchange of ideas. What a novel concept!

Isn't protest in itself a disruption? This shit isn't just happening on college campuses, entire states are working diligently to make sure that protesting will soon be against the law. Red states of course. States want to be able to arrest you if you dare protest. That's incredible to me. It boggles my mind in the same way gerrymandering does.

Are you aware that this policy at the college came about because of complaints from conservatives who say right leaning speakers aren't afforded the same level of respect as Liberal speakers? The story usually ends there because rarely does anyone want to delve into why that is.

Torch carrying white nationalists marched in Charlottesville again last night. The marchers chanted "you will not replace us" and "we will be back" at Emancipation Park.

I have such mixed feelings about this but in the end I have to support their right to free speech in the same way I support those who I agree with. Ugh. *sigh* I don't agree with them. I can talk some shit but the reality is that I don't think I'm better or more deserving than someone else, black or white, gay or straight. I'm speaking only in very general terms and only in regards to average people.

(10-08-2017, 04:42 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Isn't protest in itself a disruption? This shit isn't just happening on college campuses, entire states are working diligently to make sure that protesting will soon be against the law. Red states of course. States want to be able to arrest you if you dare protest. That's incredible to me. It boggles my mind in the same way gerrymandering does.

Are you aware that this policy at the college came about because of complaints from conservatives who say right leaning speakers aren't afforded the same level of respect as Liberal speakers? The story usually ends there because rarely does anyone want to delve into why that is.

I think you're missing the point. Mobbing events, being violent, or otherwise shutting something down because you don't like it isn't protest. To forcibly suppress opposition and criticism is pure fascist philosophy. That's why it's so ironic that the hard left groups call themselves 'antifa' - when in fact they conduct themselves in a fascist manner.

Everyone has a right to speak. Nazis, Black Lives Matter, pro life, pro choice, etc. Shutting any of them down because you don't want to hear their message is wrong. Protest it all you want, put your opposing viewpoint out there and let it be heard. But when you actively try to prevent people from speaking, actively try to shut down an event by not allowing others to enter, or resort to violence to silence others you've crossed the line. If colleges or states want to try and tackle that problem with policies or laws, that's up to them.

With regard to conservatives or liberals being treated differently, it's probably true. Just look at Berkeley recently. Violent 'protests' to shut down a conservative speaker. Were there the same violent 'protests' for a liberal speaker? I've not seen them, have you?

In my opinion, colleges looking to employ these policies aren't entirely altruistic in their motives. It sounds great to say they're protecting free speech, but it's likely as much about protecting their bottom line. Berkeley aside, most parents don't want to send their kids - and their money - to a school that has 'protest' problems. Case in point: University of Missouri. A few years back their was a high profile Black Lives Matter protest there. The end result? Their freshman class enrollment dropped by 23% the following year, and overall enrollment dropped over 7%. Those missing students were worth over $16M, and the University has laid off workers, shuttered buildings, and raised tuition to attempt to cover the shortfall.

(10-08-2017, 06:14 AM)Duchess Wrote:

Torch carrying white nationalists marched in Charlottesville again last night. The marchers chanted "you will not replace us" and "we will be back" at Emancipation Park.

I have such mixed feelings about this but in the end I have to support their right to free speech in the same way I support those who I agree with. Ugh. *sigh* I don't agree with them. I can talk some shit but the reality is that I don't think I'm better or more deserving than someone else, black or white, gay or straight. I'm speaking only in very general terms and only in regards to average people.

Well actually "None" of us here at Mock, are "average people"!

Sad that there even has to be policy at universities to enable booked speakers to actually speak.

Conservative students and other students who like to hear (or challenge) different viewpoints should have that opportunity. Students who don't want to hear what the speaker has to say should just not attend. Students who want to protest should do so outside the venue or should attend and challenge the speaker if it's an open forum. My right to free speech and expression of views doesn't trump anyone else's. That's how I feel about it.

To me, the fact that so many university students are motivated to inflict violence and/or vandalism over booked speakers, speakers who have been effectively blocked or attacked in some recent cases, is a sign of a much bigger problem in our country.

I'm guilty of not respecting some of the opinions of others but I don't think I'd ever resort to trying to silence it, not with violence anyway.

I don't like that torch carrying bullshit at all and I believe the fur would fly if it were a group of black people marching with lit torches. Shiiiit.

(10-08-2017, 01:41 PM)Duchess Wrote:

I'm guilty of not respecting some of the opinions of others but I don't think I'd ever resort to trying to silence it, not with violence anyway.

I don't like that torch carrying bullshit at all and I believe the fur would fly if it were a group of black people marching with lit torches. Shiiiit.

I don't see you in a silencing light. You own a forum that attracts and encourages the exchange of different opinions. You don't have to respect all of them (I don't), but you don't try to silence them. In my opinion, that's what matters here at Mock, in university halls, in the media, and everywhere else.

White supremacists marching through town spewing racist and religious hate is not exactly the same as controversial political speakers booked at universities, to me. Supremacists get to demonstrate and protest if they do it legally. But, I think it's great that they're often so outnumbered by people coming out to protest that bullshit that it effectively (sometimes) sends the supremacists packing. So long as the counter-protesters don't resort to violence or vandalism, it's all good.

And, I think you're absolutely right. If a group of American black, or Muslim, or Hispanic supremacists descended on a town bearing torches and spewing that bullshit they'd be called "terrorists", or "criminals", or "thugs" and possibly cut off by some of the same officials who defend the 1^st Amendment rights of whites under the same circumstances.

The same could be said if these white national creeps stopped traffic on a bridge or highway which is the worst way a protest should go.

(10-08-2017, 02:01 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: And, I think you're absolutely right. If a group of American black, or Muslim, or Hispanic supremacists descended on a town bearing torches and spewing that bullshit they'd be called "terrorists", or "criminals", or "thugs" and possibly cut off by some of the same officials who defend the 1^st Amendment rights of whites under the same circumstances.

Just curious, do you see any difference to the above and blm blocking the road screaming "Kill The Police" and all that other hate filled BS they spew?

Personally to me at least, I do not, its the same hate speech on both sides

(10-09-2017, 01:10 PM)SIXFOOTERsez Wrote:

(10-08-2017, 02:01 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: And, I think you're absolutely right. If a group of American black, or Muslim, or Hispanic supremacists descended on a town bearing torches and spewing that bullshit they'd be called "terrorists", or "criminals", or "thugs" and possibly cut off by some of the same officials who defend the 1^st Amendment rights of whites under the same circumstances.

Just curious, do you see any difference to the above and blm blocking the road screaming "Kill The Police" and all that other hate filled BS they spew?

Personally to me at least, I do not, its the same hate speech on both sides

Yes, Six, I see a difference between (a) people demonstrating for racial supremacy and (b) people demonstrating for racial equality and against police brutality. Big difference.

If there are some shouting 'kill the police' among the black protest groups, they're idiots the same as all the white supremacists who spew their anti-Jew and racist bullshit. But, as I said, they all have a constitutional right to assemble and express their views so long as they abide by the law in the process.

And, no, I don't think the race of the demonstrators makes any difference if they are violent or commit other crimes -- they should be busted. Period. Some locales have laws or regulations against blocking intersections and streets and some don't. So, it's up to the local law enforcement on how to handle it. I've seen people (of different races) arrested for it in some locales and I've seen people (of different races) who were not in other locales.

OK, just wondered

German soccer players took a knee in solidarity with American NFL players. They get it. They linked arms & knelt. How can Germans have a better understanding of why it's done than some Americans?

Fuck those guys too