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+--- Thread: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES (/thread-10932.html)
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - Jimbone - 07-07-2015
In the link there is the full 5 minute video. She raises her hands for sure, but he fucking cleans her clock... not even close to equal force.
Don't know what it is at Florida State - they love their QB's to assault women I guess.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - BlueTiki - 07-07-2015
(07-07-2015, 11:06 AM)Duchess Wrote: Personally he's done a ton of stuff in regards to paying back/giving back.[/i][/size]
Yeah . . . just like whites, after freeing the slaves, and the blacks are still pissed.
And Johnson . . . if a nigger ever laid hands on a white woman, he'd be dead.
That's what the Stars and Bars stood for.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - HairOfTheDog - 07-07-2015
Yeah, I don't know about that Tiki, but Johnson does in fact claim that he was a victim of racial disrespect by the bitch at da club. And, that caused him to effin' bash the bitch in the face. Seriously.
Here's what his attorney Jose Baez (yep!
) had to say about it.Story:
Former Florida State quarterback De'Andre Johnson's attorney, Jose Baez, told NBC News on Tuesday that his 19-year-old client punched a woman in the face after she called him racial epithets and provoked him.
Johnson, a redshirt freshman from Jacksonville, Florida, was dismissed from FSU's team by coach Jimbo Fisher on Monday night, hours after the state's attorney's office released surveillance video of him striking the 21-year-old woman in a Tallahassee, Florida, bar on June 24.
Johnson, who was named "Mr. Football" in Florida as a senior at First Coast High School in 2014, is charged with misdemeanor battery. Baez entered a written not guilty plea on his client's behalf on July 2. Johnson is scheduled to appear at a case management hearing in Leon County Court on July 22.
Appearing on NBC's "Today" show Tuesday, Baez said Johnson was not the initial aggressor, but is "owning this" and trying to learn from the experience.
Baez said the woman raised her fist and shouted "racial epithets" at Johnson after he accidentally made contact with her while they waited to order at the bar.
Baez said Johnson tried to "de-escalate the situation," but the woman "kneed him in the groin area" and "took another swing before he retaliated."woman.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13215817/deandre-johnson-was-provoked-woman-racial-remarks-lawyer-says
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - HairOfTheDog - 07-07-2015
(07-07-2015, 01:39 PM)Cutz Wrote:(07-07-2015, 10:55 AM)Jimbone Wrote: When I saw this, I knew this kid was finished:
Yeah, he's done for.
It does beg the question: at what point does self defense turn into misdemeanor battery? She threw a punch at his face a second before that clip you posted.
Again Cutz? Really?
Did he have an opportunity to walk away before things got physical? Yep.
Did she represent a threat of great bodily harm or death to him? Nope.
Where are you seeing a reasonable/valid claim of "self defense" in this case given those circumstances?
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - imsuchawildflower - 07-07-2015
She physically assaulted him. She could very well be in jail had he pressed charges.
You act like a nan, be prepared to be treated like one. She was asking for it...don't dish what you can't take...male or female.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - HairOfTheDog - 07-07-2015
Then, he should have walked away, reported her for assault, and pressed those charges.
But, rather than walk away and call the cops or just distance himself, he chose to hold her steady, aim, and punch her in the face to the extent that she was reportedly bleeding all over the bar.
She seems to have been an asshole. And, he responded like an asshole in return. I'm not sure if I think he should have been suspended for life because I don't know all of the details yet. But, I sure don't see a valid "self defense" claim. Defense of what? His ego? His pride? That doesn't meet the bar legally.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - BlueTiki - 07-07-2015
(07-07-2015, 10:11 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: . . . Johnson does in fact claim that he was a victim of racial disrespect by the bitch at da club. And, that caused him to effin' bash the bitch in the face. Seriously.
Here's what his attorney Jose Baez (yep!
1961 South would have lynched that boy.
I take that back. Segregation would have prevented the mingling of races in Florida.
This douche is a hot head and a pussy.
And if he ever gets a chance to play sports, everyone now knows that racial epithets are his Achilles Heel.
The fact that Baez is associated with him, I've lost all objectivity.
I also believe anyone who believes the woman deserved to be punched in the face, condones domestic violence, too.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - imsuchawildflower - 07-08-2015
(07-07-2015, 11:06 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Then, he should have walked away, reported her for assault, and pressed those charges.
But, rather than walk away and call the cops or just distance himself, he chose to hold her steady, aim, and punch her in the face to the extent that she was reportedly bleeding all over the bar.
She seems to have been an asshole. And, he responded like an asshole in return. I'm not sure if I think he should have been suspended for life because I don't know all of the details yet. But, I sure don't see a valid "self defense" claim. Defense of what? His ego? His pride? That doesn't meet the bar legally.
I don't see him steady her...I see her threatening to hit and he holds her arm then she kicks him in the balls then he hits her.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - Cutz - 07-08-2015
(07-07-2015, 11:06 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Then, he should have walked away, reported her for assault, and pressed those charges.
But, rather than walk away and call the cops or just distance himself, he chose to hold her steady, aim, and punch her in the face to the extent that she was reportedly bleeding all over the bar.
She seems to have been an asshole. And, he responded like an asshole in return. I'm not sure if I think he should have been suspended for life because I don't know all of the details yet. But, I sure don't see a valid "self defense" claim. Defense of what? His ego? His pride? That doesn't meet the bar legally.
He shouldn't have walked away, or called the cops, or punched her. He shouldn't have been in a BAR at the age of 19 to begin with. He's not a person I'd defend, and I wouldn't keep him on my football team. However, the "self defense" claim, is exactly that, a claim. He had just pushed his way up to the bar in a crowded room - asshole move, but not a crime. Walking away would have been difficult. Calling the cops is not an immediate response. You're the one that posted his defense that she kneed him in the groin, in addition to attempting to strike him in the face. At what point does fear for one's own safety really flip the switch for you? Are you saying you know for sure he didn't feel his life was in danger? If she was shouting racial slurs at him, that makes it a hate crime too. Yep.
So there's the defense. And it's legit enough that I'm surprised a warrant was issued for his arrest. Because it's biased against women. If a dude had attacked Johnson, this would be an incident that got him in trouble, not arrested and kicked off his team immediately.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - Duchess - 07-08-2015
(07-07-2015, 11:23 PM)BlueTiki Wrote: I also believe anyone who believes the woman deserved to be punched in the face, condones domestic violence, too.
I hardly condone domestic violence, lets be real here. If a woman hits another person, male or female, she damn well deserves to be hit back. Being a female does not get you a free pass to put your hands on another person in an offensive manner.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - HairOfTheDog - 07-08-2015
(07-08-2015, 04:29 AM)Cutz Wrote: He shouldn't have walked away, or called the cops, or punched her. He shouldn't have been in a BAR at the age of 19 to begin with.
Why shouldn't he have been there? Yianni's is an 18 and over club. Is there a law that says he can't approach the bar there?
He's not charged with underage drinking or anything, to the best of my knowledge.
(07-08-2015, 04:29 AM)Cutz Wrote: He's not a person I'd defend, and I wouldn't keep him on my football team. However, the "self defense" claim, is exactly that, a claim. He had just pushed his way up to the bar in a crowded room - asshole move, but not a crime. Walking away would have been difficult. Calling the cops is not an immediate response.
Whether it would have been difficult to walk away is irrelevant. People aren't required or expected, by law or otherwise, to do the right thing only when it's easy.
And, he sure didn't have any problem getting away from that bar and that girl in that crowded room quickly after he held her with his left hand and bashed her in the face with his right fist.
He could have called the cops after he walked away if he'd felt he'd been assaulted. It doesn't have to be an "immediate (on-the-spot) response".
(07-08-2015, 04:29 AM)Cutz Wrote: You're the one that posted his defense that she kneed him in the groin, in addition to attempting to strike him in the face. At what point does fear for one's own safety really flip the switch for you? Are you saying you know for sure he didn't feel his life was in danger? If she was shouting racial slurs at him, that makes it a hate crime too. Yep.
Of course I posted what his defense lawyer is now claiming, I always want to hear both sides of the story.
Baez says although Johnson knows he should have walked away, that his client was provoked by a racial slur and her physical response to being pushed at the bar. Because Jose Baez said it to the media, doesn't mean the slur really happened. Doesn't mean it didn't either.
Johnson put his hands on the girl first, it's right there on the video. I don't see any kneeing or kicking to the groin, I see her lift her leg to create distance and he's still handling her. She takes a swing with her left hand. He holds her with his left hand and bashes her in the face with his right.
I don't believe Johnson was in reasonable fear for his life or in great danger. Neither he nor his defense attorney are even trying to make that claim (so far). Police and prosecutors have reviewed the tape and interviewed the witnesses. They have witnesses who were at the bar who say she said "no, no" before he hit her. They have filed charges against him for battery. The video, in my eyes, supports those charges. But, if it goes to trial, I'll be open minded in considering the defense's claim and evidence to back it up.
(07-08-2015, 04:29 AM)Cutz Wrote: So there's the defense. And it's legit enough that I'm surprised a warrant was issued for his arrest. Because it's biased against women. If a dude had attacked Johnson, this would be an incident that got him in trouble, not arrested and kicked off his team immediately.
Men get arrested and prosecuted for assault against other men all of the time.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - Cutz - 07-08-2015
So you think gender has nothing to do with it? Or you think the girl was an innocent victim?
Every 18+ bar I've been to has had the bar separated from the 18 year old crowds. If that's not the case there, then so be it.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - HairOfTheDog - 07-08-2015
I think gender might have something to do with it, and I think the girl was aggressive in dealing with Johnson's pushing on her (that came out weird).
But, I could see a guy having a battery case against Johnson under the same circumstances if he filed charges.
Johnson hasn't been convicted yet or anything. I'm just saying that based on the video and what the prosecutor contends, I think the battery charges are justified. If it goes to trial, I'll listen to both sides objectively.
I take my niece to see her favorite band at clubs a couple of times a year. We get ID'd at the door and she and the other under 21s get a different colored bracelet or stamp. She can go to the bar counter and get a coke or water or whatever, but she won't be served alcohol. Maybe Yianni's has the same type of policy.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - Cutz - 07-08-2015
Entirely possible they have the same policy. Alcohol was never mentioned, but when it involves a young star football player and he wasn't tested for sobriety at the scene, I wouldn't rule it out either. Judgmental on my part, sure.
I never said I think Johnson was justified in his actions. I said it raises the question where the line is between self defense and battery. I'm 95% sure you know the difference between assault and battery. Because her raising her fist to him is assault - the threat of physical violence. Him "putting his hands on her" in my opinion was justified, when he wrapped up her fist and pushed it away from himself. I generally approve of restraining techniques when confronted with physical violence. When he battered her, he crossed the line in my opinion, but that's entirely my opinion. In his mind at the time, she had battered him and he was responding in kind. I can see a legitimate defense being raised that she threatened first and then struck first. I think most people would agree he escalated the level of violence. However the law is meant to be fair, and not always open to subjective arguments. I also can't believe anyone would equate public assault/battery with domestic violence.
The issue I had with your response is that you said he could have walked away or called the cops. A victim of assault is justified in defending themselves. If they can get away, sure, but I wouldn't tell a rape victim that he or she should not fight back because they could call the cops. God forbid they commit battery to escape the situation... I doubt you feel that way either, so where do you draw the line? If she'd been holding his shirt, not allowing him to leave would he be justified? If she threw three or four punches? What level of physical violence needs to be reached before self defense becomes legitimate?
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - HairOfTheDog - 07-08-2015
I understand Cutz.
I do not believe that Johnson punched the woman in the face in self-defense. It appears clear to me that he punched her because he was pissed off and she wasn't backing off, not because he reasonably feared that he was in danger.
It doesn't matter what I think though. The Florida law says that someone who reasonably believes that they're in imminent danger has no obligation to retreat and can use force to protect themselves. So, maybe Johnson and Baez will claim that Johnson felt endangered and they'll try to put on a self defense claim.
If they do, the video might work for them, but it might work against them. He's pushing up against her first and puts his hands on her first. Then again, she curled up her fist, which could be seen as a threat. Who would legally be considered the initial aggressor? It's murky.
Will be interesting to see where this one goes legally.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - imsuchawildflower - 07-08-2015
He didn't push his,way to the bar. He made his,way to the bar in a manner that wasn't aggressive and in a way that is done by millions of people in crowded bars making their way to the bar, dance floor or bathrooms. She turned and started in on him right away. He wasn't aggressive until she was. You can literally see his body language change as she's yelling at him and raises his hand to him the first time. I guess we all see what we want to see...but what you're seeing isn't what happened. And she definitely got the physical altercation she was looking for when she turned around. People get bumped and jostled in bars all the time, and don't react the way she did unless they are drunk. She was clearly looking to belittle and/or fight with whoever she saw when she turned around...and was obviously shocked that her sense if entitlement to treat anyone the way she did, was dished right back.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - HairOfTheDog - 07-08-2015
Yes, wildflower. We can view the same video and get a completely different impression, of course.
There's nothing that I want to see; I don't have any vested interested in this case. I'm describing what I saw, which isn't what you're seeing or reading into it based on your personal experiences. No problem.
The police, prosecutors and witnesses seem to have seen it similarly to my take. But, unless he pleads guilty, Johnson will have a chance to claim that she was drunk, entitled, looking for a fight when she turned around..........all those assumptions that you're making and more.
I don't think Johnson will do that if there's surveillance of him drinking alcohol illegally in the club (I haven't heard that he was). And, even if all those assumptions you've made are true, I still don't think Johnson's punch to the face equates to self defense in this case.
But, we'll see.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - Blindgreed1 - 07-08-2015
Someone should protest the behavior of both of these assholes!
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - HairOfTheDog - 07-08-2015
It just never gets old Gunnar. No, really.
RE: ATHLETIC ASSHOLES - Blindgreed1 - 07-08-2015
(07-08-2015, 11:12 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: It just never gets old Gunnar. No, really.You can set your watch to it.