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+--- Thread: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION (/thread-11288.html)
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Duchess - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 12:55 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Nielsen's claim (whether true or not) that she has no idea where migrant babies, toddlers, and girls are located caused a lot of justifiable anger following her press conference earlier this week.
I keep reading & hearing that parents have nothing in regards to paperwork that tells them where their children are or how they begin the process of having them returned to them. Nothing. They know nothing! I feel enraged. When I heard the little ones crying for their Papa and their mommies I thought my head would explode. I don't know as I've ever been so angry about something in all my life.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Duchess - 06-20-2018
American Airlines has just told the United States government to "immediately refrain" from using them to transport migrant children. Good for them. I hope more follow suit. These kids are being flown all over America.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Blindgreed1 - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 12:09 PM)Maggot Wrote: That would work keep them together on the plane going back. Or a bus will work for the ones doing it illegally. Or keep them in a big temporary tent or something.
It's times like these that I like to say "What would HOTD do?"
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - HairOfTheDog - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 12:48 PM)Duchess Wrote:(06-20-2018, 12:43 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Yeah, it's becoming increasingly more likely to me that Trump is using these kids as leverage in attempt to get his wall funding.
He's holding them hostage and as godawful as this is I truly hope Democrats don't cave.
It's not just the Democrats he's targeting. The majority of Republican congresspersons have refused to approve Trump's wall funding demands.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Duchess - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 01:10 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: It's not just the Democrats he's targeting. The majority of Republican congresspersons have refused to approve Trump's wall funding demands.
The only people who want the wall are his base.
There are some Republicans I like & respect, Steve Schmidt is one of them, and early today he renounced his party, he's been a Republican his entire adult life and has worked for that party for a very long time. He will vote for the Democrats in November. Steve is a true blue Republican and I was sorta shocked to see him renounce his party.
"29 years and nine months ago I registered to vote and became a member of The Republican Party which was founded in 1854 to oppose slavery and stand for the dignity of human life. Today I renounce my membership in the Republican Party. It is fully the party of Trump.
It is corrupt, indecent and immoral. With the exception of a few Governors like Baker, Hogan and Kasich it is filled with feckless cowards who disgrace and dishonor the legacies of the party’s greatest leaders. This child separation policy is connected to the worst abuses.
On Ronald Reagan’s grave are these words. “ I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.” He would be ashamed of McConnell and Ryan and all the rest while this corrupt government establishes internment camps for babies. Everyone of these complicit leaders will carry this shame through history. There legacies will be ones of well earned ignominy. They have disgraced their country and brought dishonor to the Party of Lincoln."
"Today the GOP has become a danger to our democracy and values."
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - ZEROSPHERES - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 11:59 AM)Maggot Wrote: The solution to all this...............
1-make it illegal to come into the U.S. without proper documentation
2-do not allow anyone to "sneak" in
3-make laws that prevent illegal entry
4-do not give any money to people that come illegaly
5- build a wall with points of entry to allow them to come legally because all the above is not working or....................
http://picasion.com/
"Tender Age Facilities"
THE FINAL SOLUTION
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - HairOfTheDog - 06-20-2018
Well, public and official pressure seems to have worked.
Breaking news is that Trump will sign an Executive Order to undo what he and Sessions put in place, thereby making it so that migrant families who cross the border at unauthorized entry points will go back to being detained together, as was the case under previous administrations. He'll undoubtedly lie and spin to save face, but I'm glad the child separation is ending.
This after putting all those parents and children through the trauma and spending millions. I hope the migrant parents and children currently in jails and detention centers are reunited quickly.
A lot of Congressional Republicans who are up for re-election this year can stop shitting their pants so hard now, UNLESS the president reverses course again or once more starts talking about removing pre-existing condition insurance coverage.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Blindgreed1 - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 01:56 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Well, public and official pressure seems to have worked.What kind of an ignorant buffoon could have seen that coming?
Breaking news is that Trump will sign an Executive Order to undo what he and Sessions put in place, thereby making it so that migrant families who cross the border at unauthorized entry points will go back to being detained together, as was the case under previous administrations. He'll undoubtedly lie and spin to save face, but I'm glad the child separation is ending.
This after putting all those parents and children through the trauma and spending millions. I hope the migrant parents and children currently in jails and detention centers are reunited quickly.
A lot of Congressional Republicans who are up for re-election this year can stop shitting their pants so hard now, UNLESS the president reverses course again or once more starts talking about removing pre-existing condition insurance coverage.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - HairOfTheDog - 06-20-2018
Even the most ignorant of buffoons could have seen it coming.
Executive Order has been discussed as one of the most likely options to stop the administration and Republican bleeding for over a week.
It would have been faster and easier to just order Sessions and Nielsen to stop doing what he'd ordered them to do. But, official written Executive Order gives President Trump more ability to spin the reversal and prevents him from having to choose-between the two competing Republican bills or having to reject them both because they won't include the wall funding Trump wanted included in the legislation.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Duchess - 06-20-2018
I don't think there is a reunification plan in place. Some parents have already been deported and their child/children are still here, somewhere, the parents don't know. There are babies & toddlers out there who can't express themselves. There will be families who are broken forever.
When some parents begin the journey to get to America they do so against all odds because fleeing to the unknown is better than where they come from. They want to live, they want their kids to live, many leave because they fear for their lives. They don't journey through the most dangerous place on earth because they want a fucking handout.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - ZEROSPHERES - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 12:48 PM)Duchess Wrote: He's holding them hostage...............
Please define Hostage.
![[Image: 8bbfc9080650ce2496d8ba13b41ff00e.gif]](http://i.picasion.com/pic87/8bbfc9080650ce2496d8ba13b41ff00e.gif)
http://picasion.com/
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - HairOfTheDog - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 02:55 PM)Duchess Wrote: I don't think there is a reunification plan in place. Some parents have already been deported and their child/children are still here, somewhere, the parents don't know. There are babies & toddlers out there who can't express themselves. There will be families who are broken forever.
When some parents begin the journey to get to America they do so against all odds because fleeing to the unknown is better than where they come from. They want to live, they want their kids to live, many leave because they fear for their lives. They don't journey through the most dangerous place on earth because they want a fucking handout.
I hope the press continues to do its job on this issue and pursues reunification diligently.
Nielsen said earlier this week that only Congress could end the family separation policy. When asked about ending it with Executive Order, Trump said that was impossible. Of course, they were both lying.
Anyway, unfortunately, it doesn't matter how many times you point out the very tough challenges and dangers most of these migrants have to endure to escape certain death or violence at home, there is still around 1⁄3 of the U.S. population that buys into the white nationalist propaganda or won't look past their own prejudices. They'll keep viewing migrants as rapists, gang members, murderers, Democrat operatives who will illegally vote, lazy slackers who come here to get welfare, etc..
There are some 'bad hombres' who cross the border, no doubt about it. I support strong border security and immigration processing. But evidence shows that immigrant populations commit less crime than others within the U.S., they generally work very hard - many times at jobs that American citizens aren't willing to perform, and they put more into the economy than they receive.
I just saw that a vote will still be taken on the House floor tomorrow, revised to exclude ending the family separation practice. I'm not sure if the two competing bills were combined or not. I'll be interested to read the details when they're published.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Duchess - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 01:03 PM)Duchess Wrote:
American Airlines has just told the United States government to "immediately refrain" from using them to transport migrant children. Good for them. I hope more follow suit. These kids are being flown all over America.
...and now United & Frontier have joined them.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - HairOfTheDog - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 03:39 PM)Duchess Wrote:(06-20-2018, 01:03 PM)Duchess Wrote:
American Airlines has just told the United States government to "immediately refrain" from using them to transport migrant children. Good for them. I hope more follow suit. These kids are being flown all over America.
...and now United & Frontier have joined them.
Hopefully, fewer migrant children will get lost to their parents in the system as a result, and it will put more immediate pressure on the government to reunify families. Hopefully.
Nielsen's spokesperson has already issued a press release criticizing the airlines.
DHS press secretary Tyler Houlton issued a statement saying it's "unfortunate" that the three airlines "no longer want to partner with the brave men and women of DHS to protect the traveling public," claiming that the carriers are "buckling to a false media narrative." "Despite being provided facts on this issue, these airlines clearly do not understand our immigration laws and the long-standing devastating loopholes that have caused the crisis at our southern border," Houlton said. http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/aviation/393295-dhs-airlines-buckling-to-false-media-narrative-on-family
Well, if the airlines don't understand the immigration laws, that may be because the administration has been consistently inconsistent and dishonest about the impacts and processes surrounding the new Zero Tolerance policy.
However, I suspect the airlines do understand that children were taken from their parents and are being dispersed to different locales without any known process or tracking mechanism to ensure they're reunified with their families.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Blindgreed1 - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 02:25 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Even the most ignorant of buffoons could have seen it coming.Yet as I read up, I see that you believe he's holding those children hostage until he gets his wall. Interesting twist to such a hostage crisis.
Executive Order has been discussed as one of the most likely options to stop the administration and Republican bleeding for over a week.
It would have been faster and easier to just order Sessions and Nielsen to stop doing what he'd ordered them to do. But, official written Executive Order gives President Trump more ability to spin the reversal and prevents him from having to choose-between the two competing Republican bills or having to reject them both because they won't include the wall funding Trump wanted included in the legislation.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Blindgreed1 - 06-20-2018
I never knew HoTD was a political analyst with such an unlimited knowledge of bullshit... How refreshing.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - HairOfTheDog - 06-20-2018
Your butthurt trolls are lame Gunnar.
I still believe one of Trump’s motives in green lighting child separations was to gain leverage for border wall funding.
The fact that he failed and instead got quick and massive condemnation (even from his own party) which forced him to flip flop ...... doesn’t change his original motives. That’s true whether my opinion as to his motives are accurate or not.
Anyway, I read the latest on the House immigration bill votes tomorrow. It’s still a jumbled mess.
There are still two bills which may be presented. Republican lawmakers are still fiddling with them and still trying to drum up enough Republican votes for one of them to pass. No Democrat participation has been sought.
The one that currently has the most secured votes is the compromise bill, which now includes wall funding. But it’s still reportedly contested hotly among Republicans. The broader immigration reform bill is reportedly a very long shot.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Maggot - 06-20-2018
Trump has bowed to the masses. It's a good thing, he has said that illegals may have to go to military bases where there is more room and also more airplanes to deport the illegals that do not pass muster. It's a good thing, finally a President that is taking this immigration problem and spearheading an immigration policy that stays within legal boundaries and limits the amount of immigrants that come here to feed. It's not like many of them are coming here to work in nuclear facilities or treat patients or build skyscrapers but it's a good start. Lets see if the Democrats have any constructive ideas to stem the flow and create a better society that abides by our laws.
I have no problem whatsoever with immigration I do have a problem with America being thought of as a golden banana and a bottomless well of money a bastion of free money and attention.
Maybe visas could be used and they could come and work and not abuse that trust. Maybe they could understand that this is not a place that will pay housing, food, childcare or any of the free things that Americans get because they are citizens. Maybe it's the beginning of true immigration reform. If anyone can do it a non politician like Trump may have a chance. Maybe. But I fear that the Dems want nothing to do with it, but we shall see if they truly care about immigration or are just using it to advance their own agenda.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - HairOfTheDog - 06-20-2018
(06-20-2018, 02:55 PM)Duchess Wrote: I don't think there is a reunification plan in place. Some parents have already been deported and their child/children are still here, somewhere, the parents don't know. There are babies & toddlers out there who can't express themselves. There will be families who are broken forever.
You’re right about there being no reunification plan, unfortunately.
I’ve been waiting all day and hoping to hear that any and all necessary efforts to reunite the families would be taken by the government.
Instead, all I’ve heard is excuses, non-answers and confirmation that there was no formal matching of the detained kids to their jailed parents.
Former immigration officials are admitting that it will be very difficult if not impossible to reunify some of the 2,300+ children with their parents. That should not be an allowable outcome.
The Dems, the press, and the public need to force the issue and insist that Trump and company take responsibility for what they’ve done and rectify it to the fullest extent possible. The administration should be required to locate every single one of the kids the government adopted out or dispersed across 14 states, starting now. Anything less is child cruelty on the part of the Trump administration, in my view.
I don’t believe this government-induced tragedy will fade away just because Trump pledged to stop doing something he never should have done in the first place. If the Dems don’t fiercely stay all over this case, they’re worthless.
I did see an active (not retiring) Republican congressmen interviewed today. I’ll try to find the clip. He did not hesitate to criticize Trump harshly for lying about the origin of the policy, lying about not being able to stop it at anytime, and using children as political pawns and negotiating points/leverage. Let’s see if others follow suit, either because they’re worried about their political futures or because they’re actually decent humans.
RE: RETURN TO SENDER/ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION - Duchess - 06-21-2018
(06-20-2018, 03:56 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: However, I suspect the airlines do understand that children were taken from their parents and are being dispersed to different locales without any known process or tracking mechanism to ensure they're reunified with their families.
They do understand, HotD. As with the majority of the country they see exactly what is being done and their response is “We have no desire to be associated with separating families, or worse, to profit from it."