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+--- Thread: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE (/thread-11616.html)
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - HairOfTheDog - 12-12-2014
(12-12-2014, 04:13 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: So physical stature wouldn't play a part in a police officers split second decision-making?No one contended such in this thread.
If you're asking me if I think it might play a factor, the answer is "yes". As I said, that's one of the reasons I believe the 911 dispatcher may be in trouble -- if the officers had been given all of the eyewitness caller's descriptions, the officers may not have put themselves in a "split-second decision-making" position. Tamir was posing no threat when they arrived on the scene; there were no bystanders in potential danger (despite the lies told in the original police narrative.)
In any event, Cleveland PD has a record of insufficient training and wrongful approach in regards to reportedly armed citizens. I believe that may be a factor in the shooting death of Tamir Rice. Based on what I saw in the video and the analysis of experienced tactical experts, I agree with those here who've posted that the officers should not have rolled up so close to Tamir.
The approach, whether the officers believed him to be a boy or a man, was a major tactical error that unnecessarily left virtually no time for assessment or management of the situation before deadly force was used, IMO.
(12-12-2014, 04:13 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: I just looked it up. The average 12 year old boy in this country is 58" and weighs 90lbs.There is video along with multiple pictures of Tamir Rice throughout this thread. He is a big boy with a 12 year old's face. That's not disputed. But, gold star for the research effort, MS.
Also, from the Medical Examiner's report: 'Tamir Rice's appearance was consistent with the reported age of 12 years old or older.'
(12-12-2014, 04:13 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: You said "12 years old is 12 years old." while that's true, if Tamir appeared to be more like an older teen or even a young adult, that may explain why he was perceived as a legitimate threat, rather than just a child playing with a toy gun.Already addressed in my first response. Same question, same answer.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - sally - 12-12-2014
He looks like a fucking kid. I can see, you can see it, everyone can fucking see it. I don't know why MS always wants to pick gnat shit out of pepper.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Midwest Spy - 12-12-2014
(12-12-2014, 05:00 PM)sally Wrote: He looks like a fucking kid. I can see, you can see it, everyone can fucking see it. I don't know why MS always wants to pick gnat shit out of pepper.
Just as Trayvon Martin looked like his "stock photo" that was circulated to all the TV stations and newspapers?
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Duchess - 12-12-2014
I read about some college kids who jokingly wondered aloud about what pix of theirs would be used in the media if they ever found themselves in this type of situation. The sweet, all American pix or the faux thuggery/slut pix.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - sally - 12-12-2014
(12-12-2014, 05:27 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote:(12-12-2014, 05:00 PM)sally Wrote: He looks like a fucking kid. I can see, you can see it, everyone can fucking see it. I don't know why MS always wants to pick gnat shit out of pepper.
Just as Trayvon Martin looked like his "stock photo" that was circulated to all the TV stations and newspapers?
I thought Trayvon looked like a teen even in his "gangster" photos.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Midwest Spy - 12-12-2014
I don't blame a parent for circulating the 'all-American' pix.
I'd do the same thing.
Those pix don't always represent the entire story, however.
And I'm not insinuating that Tamir was anything other than a 12 year old at this point. My insinuation was pointed more at the Trayvon images.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - HairOfTheDog - 12-12-2014
(12-12-2014, 05:00 PM)sally Wrote: He looks like a fucking kid. I can see, you can see it, everyone can fucking see it. I don't know why MS always wants to pick gnat shit out of pepper.
I was gonna answer your question by pointing out MS's similar idiocy in the Trayvon Martin thread, but figured "why bother?".
Now that MS has ignorantly and pointlessly brought it up himself, I'll walk through that door and answer your question, sal.
IMO, MS wants to pick gnat shit out of pepper because he's got gnat shit for brains.
He was one of the "all black youths are scary, evil, killers in the wait -- especially the big or tall ones!!!" idiots in Trayvon's thread; one of those who somehow believed that Trayvon controlled his height and therefore was, by default, a legitimate menace to that upstanding do-gooder, George Zimmeran (and his gun).
MS also insisted 15 times or more that Trayvon had "jumped" George Zimmerman from behind and that's why Zimmerman had to kill the menacing black kid. Mind you, there was no evidence that "jump" had ever occurred and, in fact, George Zimmerman's own account contradicted MS's fiction-as-fact version, but still............MS kept on insisting it happened that way for months, over and over.
Many photos of Trayvon were released. One that was widely circulated showed a smiling Trayvon Martin taken 6 months before his 16th birthday -- he was killed shortly thereafter. Some of the "all black youths are scary, evil, killers in the wait -- especially the big or tall ones!!!" idiots insisted that Trayvon was like 12 in the photo. MS probably still believes it. Or, maybe MS thinks only photos of Trayvon that looked menacing should have been shown to the public because those match his perception of all black kids who get killed.
And, MS thinks it actually helps his case to bring up Trayvon Martin's photos when attempting to vilify 12-year-old Tamir Rice. Nevermind that there is video of Tamir Rice from the day he died that shows him acting like a kid, the 911 caller thought he was a juvenile, and there are 5 very recent photos of Tamir Rice right in front of his face in this very thread.
So, why does MS do this? He has a very misplaced sense of superiority and he's scared, IMO. MS doesn't care whether the 911 dispatcher or the officers acted according to process, whether they used good judgment, whether they were qualified to be in the field in the first place... He's glad that the kid was killed for playing with a pellet gun in the park because he thinks Tamir Rice's death was a cleansing of the gene pool. If he was wrong about that, Christ would have intervened and saved Tamir. Since Christ did not, MS feels assured that he's right in his contention that society is better off without Tamir Rice.
Now, MS is saying that he wasn't insinuating anything negative about Tamir's photos when he brought up Trayvon's photos, even though there is no reason he would have invoked Trayvon Martin were he not doing exactly that. Why? Because he hopes that everyone else has gnat shit for brains, like he does.
That's why I think MS can't look at anything objectively and always wants to pick gnat shit out of pepper in these such cases.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Midwest Spy - 12-12-2014
HotD sure is detached from the real world.
That's okay.
You're entertaining.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Duchess - 12-12-2014
Now I'm thinking about him being a Christ-whisperer.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Midwest Spy - 12-12-2014
I don't understand how educated people can spend so much time, energy and emotion on the subject of black kids shot by white cops (or Hispanic men in the case of GZ).
This country has existed and flourished based on the concept of law and order. That it's citizens will enjoy freedom but are expected to abide by the laws.
There has always been corruption of sorts in LE. There have always been the proverbial few bad apples that taint things for the truly good cops out there.
Policing needs to be done, however, to maintain our society. I still contend that, while a black man has to deal wiith unfair profiling, he will not be randomly shot by a rogue cop if he's a law-abiding citizen.
Please tell me the next time that actually happens.
No, you get yourself shot by a cop because you're either a criminal or have done something very stupid.
I'm tired of rehashing the specifics of the Brown and Martin cases. IMO, they were headed for a life of crime. But, the outraged people of this country cry for justice for these two upstanding citizens.
Why can't we get outraged for truly innocent victims? Kids senselessly gunned down in the crossfire of Chicago's ghettos? Little kids abused and killed by their caregivers? Women who are raped?
We all know the answer to that question. The 'Man' isnt doing any of those things, that's why.
As I said esrlier, the guy in NYC was posing no immediate threat to anyone and officers should be charged and do prison time for how that arrest was handled.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Duchess - 12-12-2014
(12-12-2014, 07:30 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Why can't we get outraged for truly innocent victims? Kids senselessly gunned down
Hello
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - username - 12-12-2014
(12-12-2014, 07:30 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Why can't we get outraged for truly innocent victims? Kids senselessly gunned down in the crossfire of Chicago's ghettos? Little kids abused and killed by their caregivers? Women who are raped?
How stupid can you be, MS? You don't have the ability to be outraged by legal injustice, senseless killing, child abuse, police brutality and women who are raped all at the same time?
You seem to have a very narrow view there. All of the above piss me off and several other horrible realities too. Animal cruelty really pisses me off.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Midwest Spy - 12-12-2014
I'm just not a fan of cops being persecuted as they are right now, and I don't have any friends or family that are cops.
But they are needed and do way more good than bad in this country.
Do they need to make some changes? Yes.
Should Tamir have been approached so closely? No. Should Tamir have been acting in such a way that a concerned citizen felt the need to call 911? No.
Thanks for your input User.
I am very set in my way of thinking.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - HairOfTheDog - 12-12-2014
(12-12-2014, 06:38 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: HotD sure is detached from the real world.
That's okay.
You're entertaining.
The reality is, MS, that I could pull up your exact comments to support every point cited in my post, but I don't find your misstatements of facts, baseless presumptions, and illogical rationale entertaining enough to re-post in this new thread.
When you try to project onto others your inability to assess incidents and the people involved in them on an objective case-by-case basis -- regardless of color or societal position -- it's your detachment from the real world that is transparent, IMO.
In this forum, we focus on crimes against children, crimes against police officers, crimes against families, crimes against women...of all colors. You may think it's a waste of time when you feel those involved in specific cases are beneath you, and that's your right. But, no matter how you try to speak for him and paint him in your image, if Christ exists, I don't believe he'd condemn people who take interest in justice for others in general -- nor do I believe that he'd paint a child as worthless, not even a black one who did a childish thing like waving a pellet gun in a public park.
P.s. I don't see cops being persecuted at Mock. I see the actions and qualifications of some cops being questioned in specific incidents of contested shootings and brutality. Based on what's posted here, it's clear to me that most of us can support and appreciate cops in general, while also recognizing that they're only human and that some of them make fatal mistakes or perform criminal acts themselves. And, most of us can also acknowledge that while not all black people are wrongfully persecuted or wrongfully killed in fatal incidents involving police, some of them are. IMO, you lack that clarity and realistic insight.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - blueberryhill - 12-13-2014
Read that the Coroner has ruled his death as a homicide or is this old news.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - username - 12-13-2014
(12-12-2014, 08:31 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: I'm just not a fan of cops being persecuted as they are right now, and I don't have any friends or family that are cops.
So all cops should be exempt from persecution despite some that are very, very bad?
But all juveniles that are deemed by you and your like who are possibly headed for a life of crime or make a stupid mistake deserve what they get?
Alrightee then. Bigot.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Duchess - 12-13-2014
That's how most of white bread America think.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Cutz - 12-13-2014
Most of white bread America is against persecution? How fair of them. There's a difference between persecution and prosecution...
Question tho... what's the first aid treatment for gunshot wounds? Mouth to mouth? Put his feet up?
Well... at least his mom put out there that he isn't allowed to play with guns. She must really be mad at her son for playing with it and getting himself shot. Probably mad at his friend too. Wonder why his name hasn't come out. Oh... cause there's white cops to blame. That's popular these days.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Midwest Spy - 12-13-2014
(12-13-2014, 01:16 AM)username Wrote:(12-12-2014, 08:31 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: I'm just not a fan of cops being persecuted as they are right now, and I don't have any friends or family that are cops.
So all cops should be exempt from persecution despite some that are very, very bad?
But all juveniles that are deemed by you and your like who are possibly headed for a life of crime or make a stupid mistake deserve what they get?
Alrightee then. Bigot.
The overwhelming majority (I'd say 80-90%) of the male population that works, pays taxes and lives a law-abiding life, thinks the way I do.
No, I don't think all cops should be persecuted because of a handful of bad apples. The bad apples should be prosecuted, serve time where applicable and never be on a police force again.
Kids, Juveniles and young adults who choose a life of crime are taking chances with their lives.
Yep, I feel I've been pretty clear.
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE - Duchess - 12-13-2014
(12-13-2014, 10:42 AM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Kids, Juveniles and young adults who choose a life of crime are taking chances with their lives.
I haven't seen a single person disagree with that statement. I agree that one reaps what they sow but how does that pertain to this case and a couple others that you have referenced? This isn't verbatim but you basically said at least one of these kids would probably grow up to be a thug so his death isn't a loss.