(01-27-2017, 09:40 PM)sally Wrote: Why do you want to go to church with a bunch of people you don't know? They could be the scum of the earth for all you know. Would you leave your children with them? How does any of that help you get closer to God?

Does your church feed the homeless and the whole congregation gets together to help? That I approve of. That's nice and something I would attend even though I don't believe in God.

(01-27-2017, 04:16 PM)F.U. Wrote:

(01-27-2017, 04:13 PM)FAHQTOO Wrote: If it saves some babies, then I'm fine with it.

Sounds like the same thing the pro choice crowd has ben saying to the pro gun crowd, for years.

Just saying

(01-27-2017, 11:04 PM)sally Wrote: Whether you're against it or for it, shouldn't it be a moral issue for everyone by definition?

Morality- The extent to which an action is right or wrong

Abortion- The deliberate termination of a human pregnancy

So you think abortion has nothing to do with morality? I mean nothing? It's just a mass of cells that belong to a women to discard at her convenience and nothing more?

I don't even believe in God and I still have a moral compass that says something about it just isn't right. That's not to say I don't think it's necessary in many cases, that's where people often can't distinguish between morality and religion. But to say it has nothing to do with morality is absurd to me.

(01-27-2017, 11:21 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I could swear you said you didn't care about inconvenience to women when it comes to abortion. But, but I didn't see that comment when I just read the thread again. If I imagined that or if you changed your mind and edited it out, I'm sorry for stating it here.

(01-27-2017, 08:15 PM)blueberryhill Wrote:

(01-27-2017, 06:40 PM)sally Wrote:

(01-27-2017, 04:46 PM)blueberryhill Wrote:

(01-27-2017, 04:27 PM)F.U. Wrote: Why is the pro-life/choice issue a religious issue? Isn't it just a personal opinion/belief issue? I am not religious but I am pro life. Religion has nothing to do with my decision.

It has been made a religious by the extreme right wing evangelist zealots.....and not appropriate for the President or Vice President to be a part of either "side." Right now it is legal in the USA.....Go to another thread to debate your beliefs, etc....this thread is the "Trump Presidency" and as such, should not get in the mix.. Is that too difficult to comprehend? I know I have interjected my beliefs on this thread, but trying to get some of you people to stay focused on the issue of Gov't and Church is a waste of time. Your personal beliefs are not the issue in this particular comment which Duchess first commented that she couldn't believe Pence was speaker at the pro-life march......Vice President was totally inappropriate and the fact that some of you don't get this, validates my point that some of you are just obtuse.

You can have morality with the absence of religion and church, BB. Morality isn't a personal opinion or belief, it's just knowing right from wrong. Obviously it's wrong to murder someone unless it's in self defense, right? When the murderer is punished no one questions it being a religious issue.

On the other hand religion is often pushed as morally right, as with homosexuals. Homosexuals aren't hurting anyone though so that's a religious belief and doesn't have anything to do with morality.

But abortion, well just how right do you think that is BB? When you have an abortion you are taking a life aren't you? That's not a belief, it's a fact. So to me it's much more than the government trying to tell women what to do with their bodies based on religion. Its much bigger than that.

Abortion may be necessary in the world we live in, but that doesn't mean it's morally right.

..I am not going to debate abortion on here with you Sally. Obviously, you are unable to walk in the shoes of others or ever had to make this decision or to live in a society where women died from having an abortion and the only birth control available was the rhythm method. Your self-righteous attitude is quite off putting to me..so you continue to live in your perfect little world but remember the pain that others went through so that you could have the rights you have today. I would like to know if you stop at the birth of the child and I would assume if you feel abortion (I am not pro abortion, but I am pro choice) is morally wrong, then you also don't mind paying more in taxes to cover birth control for poor women, to pay more taxes to feed, clothe, and pay medical bills of this baby. Yes, I am repeating myself....but some pro-life people vote against increase in education budgets, medical care, food programs, etc. for children...also some of the biggest proponents of leaving gun laws alone are among the so called pro-lifers.....My morality is none of your business, Sally and that is the point. Nor is it the business of the Government......Why is this issue bigger than the Gov't telling you what to do? Since when did the sexual lives of people and failure or lack of birth control ends in an unwanted pregnancy, become a lesser event in what the Gov't does or doesn't do. Maybe you just have to live through an earlier time to understand where I am coming from, but i do get tired of debating this with people who for one reason or another, cannot put themselves in the shoes of another person to try to gain insight into all that goes into the horrendous experience a woman goes through when she thinks she has no other choice than having an abortion and the whole country gets to make that decision for you. Not in my World......(Longest sentence in history)..

ETA: Now Trump is a good example of a morally deficient person and that is a fact.....So? Why are you making these distinctions in answer to original comment about separation of Church and State.....Yikes!

(01-27-2017, 11:04 PM)sally Wrote: Whether you're against it or for it, shouldn't it be a moral issue for everyone by definition?

Morality- The extent to which an action is right or wrong

Abortion- The deliberate termination of a human pregnancy

So you think abortion has nothing to do with morality? I mean nothing? It's just a mass of cells that belong to a women to discard at her convenience and nothing more?

I don't even believe in God and I still have a moral compass that says something about it just isn't right. That's not to say I don't think it's necessary in many cases, that's where people often can't distinguish between morality and religion. But to say it has nothing to do with morality is absurd to me.

(01-27-2017, 11:56 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:

(01-27-2017, 11:04 PM)sally Wrote: Whether you're against it or for it, shouldn't it be a moral issue for everyone by definition?

Morality- The extent to which an action is right or wrong

Abortion- The deliberate termination of a human pregnancy

So you think abortion has nothing to do with morality? I mean nothing? It's just a mass of cells that belong to a women to discard at her convenience and nothing more?

I don't even believe in God and I still have a moral compass that says something about it just isn't right. That's not to say I don't think it's necessary in many cases, that's where people often can't distinguish between morality and religion. But to say it has nothing to do with morality is absurd to me.

I understand your thinking, sal. I've heard a lot of people express the same opinion.

To me, it's not my place, your place, nor the government's place to decide what's right or wrong for women and couples when it comes to their personal lives. That should always be the woman or the couple's business and their choice, when it comes to human pregnancy and other intimate matters.

What you (and others who consider abortion morally wrong) would consider 'right' by the fetus in an unwanted human pregnancy....would be considered 'wrong' by the woman to many others. I think what constitutes the 'right' decision to the pregnant woman (and her partner, if he's involved) is the what matters.

The point a which a fetus is no longer dependent on the woman to live (naturally, without assistance) + the point at which a fetus can feel pain...are the points where morality becomes a consideration when it comes to abortion rights, for me. Some in the pro-choice camp strongly disagree with me, as does everyone in the pro-life camp. But, I've thought and felt a lot about the issue and that's where I stand.

(01-27-2017, 11:53 PM)FAHQTOO Wrote:

(01-27-2017, 08:15 PM)blueberryhill Wrote:

(01-27-2017, 06:40 PM)sally Wrote:

(01-27-2017, 04:46 PM)blueberryhill Wrote: [quote='F.U.' pid='446838' dateline='1485548837']
Why is the pro-life/choice issue a religious issue? Isn't it just a personal opinion/belief issue? I am not religious but I am pro life. Religion has nothing to do with my decision.

It has been made a religious by the extreme right wing evangelist zealots.....and not appropriate for the President or Vice President to be a part of either "side." Right now it is legal in the USA.....Go to another thread to debate your beliefs, etc....this thread is the "Trump Presidency" and as such, should not get in the mix.. Is that too difficult to comprehend? I know I have interjected my beliefs on this thread, but trying to get some of you people to stay focused on the issue of Gov't and Church is a waste of time. Your personal beliefs are not the issue in this particular comment which Duchess first commented that she couldn't believe Pence was speaker at the pro-life march......Vice President was totally inappropriate and the fact that some of you don't get this, validates my point that some of you are just obtuse.
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Abortion may be necessary in the world we live in, but that doesn't mean it's morally right.

..I am not going to debate abortion on here with you Sally. Obviously, you are unable to walk in the shoes of others or ever had to make this decision or to live in a society where women died from having an abortion and the only birth control available was the rhythm method. Your self-righteous attitude is quite off putting to me..so you continue to live in your perfect little world but remember the pain that others went through so that you could have the rights you have today. I would like to know if you stop at the birth of the child and I would assume if you feel abortion (I am not pro abortion, but I am pro choice) is morally wrong, then you also don't mind paying more in taxes to cover birth control for poor women, to pay more taxes to feed, clothe, and pay medical bills of this baby. Yes, I am repeating myself....but some pro-life people vote against increase in education budgets, medical care, food programs, etc. for children...also some of the biggest proponents of leaving gun laws alone are among the so called pro-lifers.....My morality is none of your business, Sally and that is the point. Nor is it the business of the Government......Why is this issue bigger than the Gov't telling you what to do? Since when did the sexual lives of people and failure or lack of birth control ends in an unwanted pregnancy, become a lesser event in what the Gov't does or doesn't do. Maybe you just have to live through an earlier time to understand where I am coming from, but i do get tired of debating this with people who for one reason or another, cannot put themselves in the shoes of another person to try to gain insight into all that goes into the horrendous experience a woman goes through when she thinks she has no other choice than having an abortion and the whole country gets to make that decision for you. Not in my World......(Longest sentence in history)..

ETA: Now Trump is a good example of a morally deficient person and that is a fact.....So? Why are you making these distinctions in answer to original comment about separation of Church and State.....Yikes!

FFS woman, she's trying to have a civil debate with you and all you do is come back and berate her because she doesn't agree with everything you say.
You hate everyone who doesn't march to your fucking beat.
Here's a suggestion...why don't you quit assuming that you have any clue about what anybody in here has been through. Why don't you stop with your "walk a mile in their shoes" bullshit. How do you know if any woman on here has walked that mile? You don't!
How would you like it I said you were one of those awful people that spit on my uncle and called him a baby killer when he got back from nam? Would you like me to ASSUME that you did that, just because of the way you lean politically?

You have no idea how nasty you really are, do you?

(01-27-2017, 11:32 PM)BigMark Wrote: She says she prays but isn't religious? Holy fuck!