(02-18-2011, 03:58 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Re Tiffany and all the people who thinks she knows more....

I tend to differ from you. Having been in traumatic situations
while pregnant, I think the brain sort of turns off and becomes
numb. It seemed to me like I had no control over that veil that
seemed to envelope me. I cried, I shook, but the main
focus was to try to lie down and be calm and rock the baby
in my belly.

Johnny was trying to get away from his family's disfunction
and chose the lovely Lisa and her very grounded family. HE
wanted to be different. It would take alot of nurturing for this
to happen. He had Lisa who obviously was a positive person
in his growth forward.

Lisa and Tiff became friends. Good for Tiff. Now I see
Tiff trying to break away from those that hurt her and 'her
past'. How wonderful it is to scream to the world, "I have a
new friend and she is GOOD. I deserve better in my life,
and I am trying for you little baby, and for myself."

I see Tiff as being socked in the gut once more by the
horrors of life. Her new friend is dead. Now where does
she go. I wish I could tell her to keep her dreams. If you
can dream it, you can do it. Walk through the book stores
and see all the 'fuck ups' who are now writing books and
sharing their story for others to try to learn from. IT
CAN BE DONE TIFF!!!

Please quit dumping on this girl here. 99 times out of 100
she is simply collateral damage. I think she worried about
her friends and got caught into the vortex.


JMHO and Thanks for offering all sides of a story. It is like
a coin. There are two sides but often people forget the
side that rolls, the third side, and maybe that is what we
have here.

(02-18-2011, 05:32 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:29 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:07 PM)lawheeze Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 03:58 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Johnny was trying to get away from his family's disfunction
and chose the lovely Lisa and her very grounded family. HE
wanted to be different. It would take alot of nurturing for this
to happen. He had Lisa who obviously was a positive person
in his growth forward.

There's evidence of drug activity in the Straub residence. How does that show Johnny trying to get away? At the very least, Lisa knew her bf was into drugs. Most likely IMO, she was doing them with him.

(02-18-2011, 03:58 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Lisa and Tiff became friends. Good for Tiff. Now I see
Tiff trying to break away from those that hurt her and 'her
past'. How wonderful it is to scream to the world, "I have a
new friend and she is GOOD. I deserve better in my life,
and I am trying for you little baby, and for myself."

Where do you see any evidence of that? Pregnant mothers of 3 don't usually go out to play pool at midnight on a Sunday night.

(02-18-2011, 03:58 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: I see Tiff as being socked in the gut once more by the
horrors of life. Her new friend is dead. Now where does
she go. I wish I could tell her to keep her dreams. If you
can dream it, you can do it. Walk through the book stores
and see all the 'fuck ups' who are now writing books and
sharing their story for others to try to learn from. IT
CAN BE DONE TIFF!!!

Is writing a book Tiff's dream?

Good POINT. Touche.

WHATEVER TIFF'S DREAM, I DREAM IT WITH HER. No one at her
age dreams of being on the outskirts of danger and the tawdry.
Look at her photos at the beach with her family. She is so happy.
This is what she should be working for - a nice life where she can
take a couple days off and be with her loved ones.

IF anyone who knows Tiff reads this, PLEASE tell her to empower
her SELF. Do not expect a man to do this for you. Go to a
Woman's Support Group or a Shelter and find a counselor who
knows the area and knows the possibilities out there for you.
I see a real accomplished woman in you. Do it for your self first.
Your babies second. Your (RIP) former boyfriend. But do it.
Many women have been where you are and have pulled up
from it - from athletes to the poorest of the poor. Remember
the author of Harry Potter was once living on the street. As
was one of the American Idol Stars. I am not suggeting you need
to be famous, but find a way to have a secure home life,
friends who will have drug free picnics and outings, and who will
support you as you learn what a nice and talented person you are.

..................

(02-18-2011, 05:28 PM)shitstorm Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 03:30 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 03:22 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 03:11 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 02:57 PM)Jane Wrote: ok, this is another reason I find it hard to believe TW's involved. She's going on about life, as usual. She's not crying on FB, over-doing the 'sad person' stuff. I can't word, properly, what I mean, ugh..

I think carrying on as if nothing happened makes her look guilty, especially coming so soon after 2 of her friends that she says she'd spent the previous evening with were savagely murdered such a short time before she says they were going to get together!

could be, but it comes across to me, like she's not worried about anything. Hell, I don't know!

I agree that she doesn't seem worried, but IMO her lack of concern is down to hardness and not to innocence. This is a person who lost one of her baby daddies to murder and then moves on to one of his criminal associates, so it would take a lot to rattle her.

Very much agree. These are gang members we're talking about. People who take extreme violence in stride - and also commit it. Now, when it's one of their homies they don't want killed, there's a display like the one they had for Donald.

(02-18-2011, 04:02 PM)HeartBreaker Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 03:53 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 03:46 PM)netsleuth Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 03:36 PM)Jane Wrote: OK, I'm just going to say it. I think TW is ignorant/stupid. I don't think she has enough sense to pull something like this off, w/o being cracked by LE. If it's true, she's only been questioned once, the day of the murders, I think LE has moved on to others, by now. Not saying she isn't still a person of interest, but I think LE has bigger fish to fry, than mess w/TW. JMO -- we shall see.

It didn't take a rocket scientist, sorry.

I don't know what you mean by "sorry." ?? My point was, I think LE has their eye on others, & TW's been put on the back burner.

wasn't there another "claim" from TW's bf that TW was being questioned EVERY DAY? mind you i think the "claim" originated from a message sent to a person on the crazy Justice FB page BUT... there still seem to be a lot of discrepancies surrounding TW... some of them big some of them small. i know a lot of them are being waved aside as "irrelevant" to the meat and potatoes of the case but you have to doubt her credibility even if it is just "small stuff" getting changed. the point is the story keeps changing... even if it's just by a little bit. to me, if you can't keep your story straight.... even if it's just the little details... you might be hiding something or fabricating some of it. IMO she might not be a key player but i feel she knows more than she's letting on.

(02-18-2011, 05:26 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:21 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: I think it might be wise here to note that getting off drugs is not
easy and takes much determination and much time and often
times, one slips.

I am hoping Tiff is on this rehabilitative route. She has a chance
to have a nice baby and if she stays clean, she will be able to
keep it in her home with her and the baby daddy. She can begin
to start a more normal life. It will be difficult. But I think she
CAN do it. Her boyfriend is studying and what few things I read,
she knows right from wrong. If she could just get away from
Toledo Ohio with her baby and man, and both of them get jobs,
use pa for awhile until they got on their feet and I think you
would find a nice couple, walking their child to school and mowing
lawns. Please let this be.

You forgot to mention the white picket fence.

(02-18-2011, 05:47 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:32 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:29 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:07 PM)lawheeze Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 03:58 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Johnny was trying to get away from his family's disfunction
and chose the lovely Lisa and her very grounded family. HE
wanted to be different. It would take alot of nurturing for this
to happen. He had Lisa who obviously was a positive person
in his growth forward.

There's evidence of drug activity in the Straub residence. How does that show Johnny trying to get away? At the very least, Lisa knew her bf was into drugs. Most likely IMO, she was doing them with him.

(02-18-2011, 03:58 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Lisa and Tiff became friends. Good for Tiff. Now I see
Tiff trying to break away from those that hurt her and 'her
past'. How wonderful it is to scream to the world, "I have a
new friend and she is GOOD. I deserve better in my life,
and I am trying for you little baby, and for myself."

Where do you see any evidence of that? Pregnant mothers of 3 don't usually go out to play pool at midnight on a Sunday night.

(02-18-2011, 03:58 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: I see Tiff as being socked in the gut once more by the
horrors of life. Her new friend is dead. Now where does
she go. I wish I could tell her to keep her dreams. If you
can dream it, you can do it. Walk through the book stores
and see all the 'fuck ups' who are now writing books and
sharing their story for others to try to learn from. IT
CAN BE DONE TIFF!!!

Is writing a book Tiff's dream?

Good POINT. Touche.

WHATEVER TIFF'S DREAM, I DREAM IT WITH HER. No one at her
age dreams of being on the outskirts of danger and the tawdry.
Look at her photos at the beach with her family. She is so happy.
This is what she should be working for - a nice life where she can
take a couple days off and be with her loved ones.

IF anyone who knows Tiff reads this, PLEASE tell her to empower
her SELF. Do not expect a man to do this for you. Go to a
Woman's Support Group or a Shelter and find a counselor who
knows the area and knows the possibilities out there for you.
I see a real accomplished woman in you. Do it for your self first.
Your babies second. Your (RIP) former boyfriend. But do it.
Many women have been where you are and have pulled up
from it - from athletes to the poorest of the poor. Remember
the author of Harry Potter was once living on the street. As
was one of the American Idol Stars. I am not suggeting you need
to be famous, but find a way to have a secure home life,
friends who will have drug free picnics and outings, and who will
support you as you learn what a nice and talented person you are.

..................

I do so enjoy that animation. I may borrow it when I speak out about
the person I think is totally responsible. Hope you do not mind.
I am just afraid my 'guilty' person is 'under some sort of protection.'
Which would mean the truth would never come out.

(02-18-2011, 05:10 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:06 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:59 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:57 PM)aileen Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:54 PM)onefortheroad Wrote: And if that's the case, then they were hardly getting together to play pool ..... unless playing pool is a euphemism for something else.

Does anyone here know if Lisa's house does indeed have a pool table???

I find it SO ODD that the MOTHER of an EX CON knows EXACTLY
where the son WHO REFUSES TO LIVE WITH HER was the night
before and EXACTLY WHO he had over to visit.

HOW MANY 21 year old guys tell their estranged mother that stuff?

S T A L K E R
I don't think that it's been debated here. Why would she tell everyone that story if she didn't know they had one for sure?

She must have known they did. Didn't she say she and her friend (ZB?) had also been there a night or 2 before "playing pool". Maybe they were there for a buy and checked the place out while they were there ....

I agree she did. She said they were over there. I think even Maytee said JC and LS had people over a night or 2 before to play some pool.

(02-18-2011, 05:56 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:10 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:06 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:59 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:57 PM)aileen Wrote: Does anyone here know if Lisa's house does indeed have a pool table???

I find it SO ODD that the MOTHER of an EX CON knows EXACTLY
where the son WHO REFUSES TO LIVE WITH HER was the night
before and EXACTLY WHO he had over to visit.

HOW MANY 21 year old guys tell their estranged mother that stuff?

S T A L K E R
I don't think that it's been debated here. Why would she tell everyone that story if she didn't know they had one for sure?

She must have known they did. Didn't she say she and her friend (ZB?) had also been there a night or 2 before "playing pool". Maybe they were there for a buy and checked the place out while they were there ....

I agree she did. She said they were over there. I think even Maytee said JC and LS had people over a night or 2 before to play some pool.

(02-18-2011, 05:46 PM)browntabby1226 Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:40 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:28 PM)Jane Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:18 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: TotallyCurious Wrote: Johnny was trying to get away from his family's disfunction
and chose the lovely Lisa and her very grounded family. HE
wanted to be different. It would take alot of nurturing for this
to happen. He had Lisa who obviously was a positive person
in his growth forward.

There's evidence of drug activity in the Straub residence. How does that show Johnny trying to get away? At the very least, Lisa knew her bf was into drugs. Most likely IMO, she was doing them with him.

It is well known that people seldom just stop doing drugs. One of the
biggest steps is getting away from those many people who are doing
them. For this Johnny gets kuddos.

My feeling is that he might be doing some pot and he might be doing
some presc. from the notes here. But it is Not for sure he is doing
them. They are there.

Dealing? Yes, probably. My assumption here is that for some reason
his mother forced him to do one last thing for her. She is EVIL
incarnate. If there is a devil, one of them is SHE right here on earth.

Off this topic - Traveling in Calif. one can go to swanky canabis
stores and get anything one wants - varied strength - affordable.
Just dont take it across the border. I dont know where people get
it in one large American City but I can go to an apartment building
and every single door on a given floor of upscale people will have
the smoke curling out from under the doors. Going into the
impoverished areas, for 7.00 I get the high offered there - poured
from a gallon jug. Cheap juices mixed with cheaper liquor. It
is more difficult to even get pot there I hear.

TC - is all of the above, your comments? I'm confused

The following got stuck in mine for some reason.

There's evidence of drug activity in the Straub residence. How does that show Johnny trying to get away? At the very least, Lisa knew her bf was into drugs. Most likely IMO, she was doing them with him.

Supposing getting out of dealing is like getting out of the mob maybe scales were there to look like they were dealing but the point was you can't just walk away.I wonder if there is a point being made with the manner of death.This is assuming they were changing there lives.I'm trying to look at all angles.

(02-18-2011, 05:50 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Someone said...

Where do you see any evidence of that? Pregnant mothers of 3 don't usually go out to play pool at midnight on a Sunday night.

****
Tiff does not live with the children at this point I understand, thus she is
alone alot of time and kids do, believe it or not, go out late at night
and meet after work. Lisa was working until 10 I think, so the evening
would begin after that. Not unusual for service workers.

(02-18-2011, 04:44 PM)browntabby1226 Wrote: Just a thought but supposing T wasn't a good friend of JC and LS and had not talked to them till that night.I guess phone records could show that.Maybe she just jumped into the investigation as a friend but maybe there was a falling out with them and that could be motive.Oh I just was helping and was concerned for my good friends.

(02-18-2011, 06:06 PM)shitstorm Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:44 PM)browntabby1226 Wrote: Just a thought but supposing T wasn't a good friend of JC and LS and had not talked to them till that night.I guess phone records could show that.Maybe she just jumped into the investigation as a friend but maybe there was a falling out with them and that could be motive.Oh I just was helping and was concerned for my good friends.

Tiffany said that the Sherita she called (the one who then called Maytee) was the girlfriend of Johnny's "best" friend, Ruben. She may have only been slightly acquainted with Johnny and/or Lisa. She also said she'd been to Lisa's a couple of nights earlier, to shoot pool. We also don't know if that's even true. Maybe she heard through the grapevine their was a pool table there (though people who had actually been over there). Maybe the story about having been there before is bullshit concocted to account DNA present at the scene. And, maybe not. My point is, WE DON'T KNOW. The entire account of what happened that night is coming from ONE PERSON - Tiffany - a gang banger. Think about it .....

(02-18-2011, 04:49 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:44 PM)browntabby1226 Wrote: Just a thought but supposing T wasn't a good friend of JC and LS and had not talked to them till that night.I guess phone records could show that.Maybe she just jumped into the investigation as a friend but maybe there was a falling out with them and that could be motive.Oh I just was helping and was concerned for my good friends.

I was also wondering if anyone knows the real nature of the relationship between TW and JC/LS. We know that she and LS were FB 'friends', but that only tells us that they were acquainted with one another and not if they hung out. Could their relationship have been buyer/dealer, for example?

(02-18-2011, 05:56 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:10 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:06 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:59 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:57 PM)aileen Wrote: Does anyone here know if Lisa's house does indeed have a pool table???

I find it SO ODD that the MOTHER of an EX CON knows EXACTLY
where the son WHO REFUSES TO LIVE WITH HER was the night
before and EXACTLY WHO he had over to visit.

HOW MANY 21 year old guys tell their estranged mother that stuff?

S T A L K E R
I don't think that it's been debated here. Why would she tell everyone that story if she didn't know they had one for sure?

She must have known they did. Didn't she say she and her friend (ZB?) had also been there a night or 2 before "playing pool". Maybe they were there for a buy and checked the place out while they were there ....

I agree she did. She said they were over there. I think even Maytee said JC and LS had people over a night or 2 before to play some pool.

(02-18-2011, 06:09 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Please explain how an estranged mother would know that. I am lost here.

(02-18-2011, 06:09 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:56 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:10 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:06 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:59 PM)trixie Wrote: I find it SO ODD that the MOTHER of an EX CON knows EXACTLY
where the son WHO REFUSES TO LIVE WITH HER was the night
before and EXACTLY WHO he had over to visit.

HOW MANY 21 year old guys tell their estranged mother that stuff?

S T A L K E R
I don't think that it's been debated here. Why would she tell everyone that story if she didn't know they had one for sure?

She must have known they did. Didn't she say she and her friend (ZB?) had also been there a night or 2 before "playing pool". Maybe they were there for a buy and checked the place out while they were there ....

I agree she did. She said they were over there. I think even Maytee said JC and LS had people over a night or 2 before to play some pool.

Please explain how an estranged mother would know that. I am lost here.

(02-18-2011, 05:41 PM)HollandHound Wrote: #4285 no chance in hell. Sorry to burst your bubble.

(02-18-2011, 05:52 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:26 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:21 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: I think it might be wise here to note that getting off drugs is not
easy and takes much determination and much time and often
times, one slips.

I am hoping Tiff is on this rehabilitative route. She has a chance
to have a nice baby and if she stays clean, she will be able to
keep it in her home with her and the baby daddy. She can begin
to start a more normal life. It will be difficult. But I think she
CAN do it. Her boyfriend is studying and what few things I read,
she knows right from wrong. If she could just get away from
Toledo Ohio with her baby and man, and both of them get jobs,
use pa for awhile until they got on their feet and I think you
would find a nice couple, walking their child to school and mowing
lawns. Please let this be.

You forgot to mention the white picket fence.

Yeah, I did. But they look like so much upkeep with the paint
peeling and such. I think just a nice border of shrubbery would
be more attractive. Thanks for the humor.

(02-18-2011, 06:09 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:56 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:10 PM)trixie Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 05:06 PM)onefortheroad Wrote:

(02-18-2011, 04:59 PM)trixie Wrote: I find it SO ODD that the MOTHER of an EX CON knows EXACTLY
where the son WHO REFUSES TO LIVE WITH HER was the night
before and EXACTLY WHO he had over to visit.

HOW MANY 21 year old guys tell their estranged mother that stuff?

S T A L K E R
I don't think that it's been debated here. Why would she tell everyone that story if she didn't know they had one for sure?

She must have known they did. Didn't she say she and her friend (ZB?) had also been there a night or 2 before "playing pool". Maybe they were there for a buy and checked the place out while they were there ....

I agree she did. She said they were over there. I think even Maytee said JC and LS had people over a night or 2 before to play some pool.

Please explain how an estranged mother would know that. I am lost here.