(02-23-2011, 12:53 AM)toledoarea Wrote: I'm not sure if you've seen this Mr. Z or not, but looking at him in the infamous picture and then looking at some of Johnny's pictures, even with Johnny's hands duct taped behind his back, I think Johnny would destroy this Mr. Z guy. No matter how strung out or desperate for drugs he was. Let's face it, Johnny had did jail time and was a fairly large young man. Some 135lbs minor is not gonna overpower Johnny. Now if you're saying Tiff, Mr. Z, and maybe two other guys that fit in the toyota carrola drove over to the house and overpowered Johnny and Lisa, that I'd believe. Mind you, although Tiffany is a capital E for Ediot, she is pregnant. A mother with even a little bit of common sense would avoid a physical confrontation with the thought of a miscarriage. One would hope anyway

(02-22-2011, 11:47 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 11:37 PM)HeartBreaker Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 11:22 PM)ToledoNative Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 11:18 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: [quote='ToledoNative' pid='133365' dateline='1298430854']
I agree with Lady Cop and whoever else said it on here...

Johnny and Lisa pulled the car into the garage and left the garage door open, since they figured they would be leaving soon.

Johnny and Lisa were on the phone with Tiffany when Johnny said he was walking out the kitchen door that connects to the garage, along come the intruders.

The altercation takes place immediately in the kitchen and they are killed. If this is what happened, then they were killed as soon as the intruders came in, which means this is not a "robbery gone bad".

they still could have been there seeking the "safe". but imagine...Johnny grabs a knife when he sees the danger and life or death struggle ensues.
i still don't believe murder was the intent. but it escalated. so they used what was at hand, household items.

i may well change my thinking when more details emerge from LE. but that was my initial reaction when it was first reported.

Ok, I got you LC, but was there not a news article that said that the Straub family said the tape was not from their home?

Correct me if I am wrong.

And like someone else on here said (sorry, can't remember the name that many posts back) why in the world would you bring tape to a robbery? To tape your bags shut? No.

toledo native: i agreed with you on the "why bring duct tape?" (if it indeed was stated that they thought it was brought to the scene... which i also recall reading although it's hard to remember where it was or who said it). i have said i can maybe see bringing bags to carry things away but the duct tape just doesn't jive in my opinion. the response by many was that it was possibly brought "to secure lisa and johnny" which makes sense. EXCEPT that if it was indeed someone they knew who was there to rob them, i don't see them taping them up while they took what they wanted and then leaving them alive and able to ID them to police etc.
so to me... bringing both the bags and the duct tape to the scene screams intent to kill (seeing that that was how they were killed). UNLESS we find either
1. that the bags and tape were not brought to the scene and rather found there and used in a pinch as things escalated as LC suggests.

2. it wasn't someone who knew them

3. that maybe it was someone who knew them but was going to try to keep it so they couldn't be ID'd (masks or blindfolds etc).

* i guess it's also possible judging from all the "no snitching" threats and nonsense some of these people throw around that they were just planning on threatening them to keep them from telling anyone they'd robbed them.

(sorry if this doesn't make sense).

(02-23-2011, 12:55 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 12:53 AM)toledoarea Wrote: I'm not sure if you've seen this Mr. Z or not, but looking at him in the infamous picture and then looking at some of Johnny's pictures, even with Johnny's hands duct taped behind his back, I think Johnny would destroy this Mr. Z guy. No matter how strung out or desperate for drugs he was. Let's face it, Johnny had did jail time and was a fairly large young man. Some 135lbs minor is not gonna overpower Johnny. Now if you're saying Tiff, Mr. Z, and maybe two other guys that fit in the toyota carrola drove over to the house and overpowered Johnny and Lisa, that I'd believe. Mind you, although Tiffany is a capital E for Ediot, she is pregnant. A mother with even a little bit of common sense would avoid a physical confrontation with the thought of a miscarriage. One would hope anyway

yes that is the one thing I keep thinking back to, I have seen Z and he is a small guy. I have seen stories where even a small guy, that is strung out, will attack someone larger.. but yea JC was pretty big. There could have been a 3^rd person, for sure. Who it is, I don't know, but what I do believe for sure is Z and T being there

(02-23-2011, 01:01 AM)wanttoknow Wrote: Very nice post Miss Conspiracy. That was alot of reading, but it helps you to understand whats going on.

(02-23-2011, 01:01 AM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 12:55 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote: [quote='toledoarea' pid='133474' dateline='1298436805']
I'm not sure if you've seen this Mr. Z or not, but looking at him in the infamous picture and then looking at some of Johnny's pictures, even with Johnny's hands duct taped behind his back, I think Johnny would destroy this Mr. Z guy. No matter how strung out or desperate for drugs he was. Let's face it, Johnny had did jail time and was a fairly large young man. Some 135lbs minor is not gonna overpower Johnny. Now if you're saying Tiff, Mr. Z, and maybe two other guys that fit in the toyota carrola drove over to the house and overpowered Johnny and Lisa, that I'd believe. Mind you, although Tiffany is a capital E for Ediot, she is pregnant. A mother with even a little bit of common sense would avoid a physical confrontation with the thought of a miscarriage. One would hope anyway

Quote:I find it hard to believe that a spontaneous crime would culminate with a manner of death this unusual. There are many more convenient ways to subdue and kill someone. The thorough search in the bedroom for the safe also suggests premeditation.

(02-23-2011, 01:08 AM)seasontickets Wrote: How do I go about uploading a picture under my name so I can express my individuality?

(02-23-2011, 01:07 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:01 AM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 12:55 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote: [quote='toledoarea' pid='133474' dateline='1298436805']
I'm not sure if you've seen this Mr. Z or not, but looking at him in the infamous picture and then looking at some of Johnny's pictures, even with Johnny's hands duct taped behind his back, I think Johnny would destroy this Mr. Z guy. No matter how strung out or desperate for drugs he was. Let's face it, Johnny had did jail time and was a fairly large young man. Some 135lbs minor is not gonna overpower Johnny. Now if you're saying Tiff, Mr. Z, and maybe two other guys that fit in the toyota carrola drove over to the house and overpowered Johnny and Lisa, that I'd believe. Mind you, although Tiffany is a capital E for Ediot, she is pregnant. A mother with even a little bit of common sense would avoid a physical confrontation with the thought of a miscarriage. One would hope anyway

Quote:I find it hard to believe that a spontaneous crime would culminate with a manner of death this unusual. There are many more convenient ways to subdue and kill someone. The thorough search in the bedroom for the safe also suggests premeditation.

Another good point. I really have to wonder if the suspects brought the tape/bags or got it from the house. I wish they would release more information! Lisa's parents would be able to confirm if that was possibly from their home. And about the safe... again, Mr. Z and Tiff had hung out w/JC and Lisa a few times at the house.. JC could have mentioned the safe at any of those times, or even at the party. Might as well look for that safe after the attack

(02-23-2011, 12:27 AM)curious Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 11:14 PM)ToledoNative Wrote: I agree with Lady Cop and whoever else said it on here...

Johnny and Lisa pulled the car into the garage and left the garage door open, since they figured they would be leaving soon.

Johnny and Lisa were on the phone with Tiffany when Johnny said he was walking out the kitchen door that connects to the garage, along come the intruders.

The altercation takes place immediately in the kitchen and they are killed. If this is what happened, then they were killed as soon as the intruders came in, which means this is not a "robbery gone bad".

You're leaving out one "key" element...central security documents...IMO means the perps were already in the house

(02-23-2011, 01:10 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:07 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:01 AM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 12:55 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote: [quote='toledoarea' pid='133474' dateline='1298436805']
I'm not sure if you've seen this Mr. Z or not, but looking at him in the infamous picture and then looking at some of Johnny's pictures, even with Johnny's hands duct taped behind his back, I think Johnny would destroy this Mr. Z guy. No matter how strung out or desperate for drugs he was. Let's face it, Johnny had did jail time and was a fairly large young man. Some 135lbs minor is not gonna overpower Johnny. Now if you're saying Tiff, Mr. Z, and maybe two other guys that fit in the toyota carrola drove over to the house and overpowered Johnny and Lisa, that I'd believe. Mind you, although Tiffany is a capital E for Ediot, she is pregnant. A mother with even a little bit of common sense would avoid a physical confrontation with the thought of a miscarriage. One would hope anyway

Quote:I find it hard to believe that a spontaneous crime would culminate with a manner of death this unusual. There are many more convenient ways to subdue and kill someone. The thorough search in the bedroom for the safe also suggests premeditation.

Another good point. I really have to wonder if the suspects brought the tape/bags or got it from the house. I wish they would release more information! Lisa's parents would be able to confirm if that was possibly from their home. And about the safe... again, Mr. Z and Tiff had hung out w/JC and Lisa a few times at the house.. JC could have mentioned the safe at any of those times, or even at the party. Might as well look for that safe after the attack

also to add to this.. I doubt they went to the house with weapons. First because they didn't anticipate the attack, and I don't think someone as young and broke as Z could get a gun. He could have perhaps had a pocket knife

(02-22-2011, 07:36 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 07:28 PM)DCTim Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 06:39 PM)DCTim Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 04:27 PM)ZEROSPHERES Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 03:44 PM)Freshbait78 Wrote: Since you also asked for a way to view R.P. & M.P. on FB I sent you a PM (Sorry I now we aren't suppose to whisper) I feel like I'm talking in some kinda weird code with all these initials LOL Would pig latin be ok?

Hi Freshbait78,

Could you please PM me with those links.

Thanks zero

Okay, maybe I'm reaching here - and if so, tell me, by all means - but in reading RPs FB page, does anyone else think its a bit strange that he makes NO mention of his best friend's and his girlfriend's horrible deaths? But a mere two days later, he's looking to "im thinkin bout going to get a bottle to stay warm so i can go sleding " IDK, as much as so many of these players post so much of their personal biz online, I would've expected to at least read a mention of it...

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong Ruben...is his last initial R or P?

OK Ruben that signed the registry, his last name starts with an "R" not "P" now here I've been looking at this Ruben P because someone posted on here today to look for a Ruben & Mario P. I hate that shit!!! I see why LC doesn't like us to use full names. Not all information given here is correct. I'm sorry for the mislead about Ruben P, although in my defense he is mutual friends with VD & a few others. Grrrr! Sorry again!!

(02-22-2011, 07:39 PM)seasontickets Wrote: This information came from a very reliable source. Family friends who spent many vacations together and have children the same age, that's all I can tell you. I believe my source of the information, this person has no reason to make things up.

(02-22-2011, 07:41 PM)Adub Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 07:39 PM)seasontickets Wrote: This information came from a very reliable source. Family friends who spent many vacations together and have children the same age, that's all I can tell you. I believe my source of the information, this person has no reason to make things up.

What information?

(02-22-2011, 07:42 PM)lawheeze Wrote:

(02-22-2011, 07:17 PM)TotallyCurious Wrote: Does anyone think that Johnny might have been totally innocent that night?

Could the bags have been put on and Tiff told to get someone to
take them off while they were still alive or do you think the perps
wanted them dead?

I don't think the perps put much thought into preserving a happy ending for Johnny and Lisa. The tape was only for the purpose of killing them. If you throw your loot and drugs into a bag, you don't tape the bag shut. You just carry it out.

(02-23-2011, 01:16 AM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:10 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:07 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 01:01 AM)Spalding Wrote:

(02-23-2011, 12:55 AM)Miss Conspiracy Wrote: [quote='toledoarea' pid='133474' dateline='1298436805']
I'm not sure if you've seen this Mr. Z or not, but looking at him in the infamous picture and then looking at some of Johnny's pictures, even with Johnny's hands duct taped behind his back, I think Johnny would destroy this Mr. Z guy. No matter how strung out or desperate for drugs he was. Let's face it, Johnny had did jail time and was a fairly large young man. Some 135lbs minor is not gonna overpower Johnny. Now if you're saying Tiff, Mr. Z, and maybe two other guys that fit in the toyota carrola drove over to the house and overpowered Johnny and Lisa, that I'd believe. Mind you, although Tiffany is a capital E for Ediot, she is pregnant. A mother with even a little bit of common sense would avoid a physical confrontation with the thought of a miscarriage. One would hope anyway

Quote:I find it hard to believe that a spontaneous crime would culminate with a manner of death this unusual. There are many more convenient ways to subdue and kill someone. The thorough search in the bedroom for the safe also suggests premeditation.

Another good point. I really have to wonder if the suspects brought the tape/bags or got it from the house. I wish they would release more information! Lisa's parents would be able to confirm if that was possibly from their home. And about the safe... again, Mr. Z and Tiff had hung out w/JC and Lisa a few times at the house.. JC could have mentioned the safe at any of those times, or even at the party. Might as well look for that safe after the attack

also to add to this.. I doubt they went to the house with weapons. First because they didn't anticipate the attack, and I don't think someone as young and broke as Z could get a gun. He could have perhaps had a pocket knife

Then how would he have subdued a bigger man without leaving any other signs of significant trauma (as disseminated by LE)?