I DON'T KNOW
#21
(09-16-2015, 07:21 PM)Maggot Wrote: You guys act like every teacher knows what the kids will be doing from one day to the next. Its not that easy. And the kid was just doing what he thought was the right thing. Shit happens in todays world that drives the caution flag. What if it was a bomb? I would rather see caution than see mayhem and this is the result of it.
I foresee the suspension being dropped. And WTF is Obama doing sticking his stupid nose in this? Its not like people aren't already questioning his motives in foreign policy. For the life of me I cannot imagine another thing that he should be staying away from.
That is unless some egghead thinks that after the fact cheerleading is warranted. And it has some crazy point other than sensationalism and plagiarism that fits some stupid agenda.

Something to take peoples minds off the real issues is what I see.

I think that Ahmed's parents should have been called and they should have been present for questioning, in any event. I don't think Ahmed should have been booked and detained. But, I don't blame the school for being very cautious, nor the cops for checking it out thoroughly.

I wish authorities would have been so thorough when they got a tip of suspicious activity related to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, but authorities blew it off because they were just high school kids. Well, as we now know, they were in fact building bombs and planning an attack on the school, unfortunately.

I still would like to hear the school's version of what went down. It's odd to me that Ahmed wouldn't have just told the English teacher to check with the Engineering teacher about the clock (maybe he did?).

Ahmed says he was disappointed that his Engineering teacher only told him that the clock was "nice" and not to show it to other teachers. But, then he ended up taking it out of his backpack and showing it to another teacher anyway.

Maybe his family will allow the school to release their incident report (which is apparently covered by student privacy unless the family consents to its release).

I agree with you about Obama and Clinton jumping in to the media storm today. Unless they've heard the full story from both sides and have all the facts, I think it's premature to take a side publicly - though I do understand wanting to promote creativity and innovation in schools.

I'm not considering this is a Muslim discrimination issue unless something is confirmed to support that suspicion; non-Muslim kids get arrested and suspended too, sometimes for what I consider idiotic reasons or policies. I don't think Obama or Clinton mentioned anything related to religion in their statements?

Anyway, looks like Ahmed is going to the White House. And, he's maybe transferring schools. And, he's probably secured entry to MIT when he graduates. And he's got offers to meet the head of Facebook and other major tech companies.
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#22
(09-16-2015, 08:20 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: Let's face it, how many muslim inventors do you know? They are certainly rare!

Odd take on it, aussie.
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#23
When you are talking about children, security, safety, it's become a fact of life. Regarding inventors, I lived in the middle east, although I am not saying they haven't invented stuff, I am saying their whole ethos is completely different to ours. Put it this way, would you say they are the same as the Japanese for example? You can see the profile of different cultures, different perceptions and motives etc.

HoTD, it's a pity you part quoted me, because you then take what I say out of context. I don't mean it as a racist statement, more health and safety.
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#24
(09-16-2015, 08:20 PM)aussiefriend Wrote: I did see this on the news here. Look, the US has been through a lot. It is better to air on the side of caution. I would rather that they over reacted and everyone is safe, than do nothing and then you are talking about a whole lot of children who are unsafe.

Let's face it, how many muslim inventors do you know? They are certainly rare! They have to take responsibility for creating this hypervigiliance too. Carry on.

Nothing was taken out of context in my first reply to you; I only wanted to respond to one part of what you wrote.

But here you go, Take 2 according to your preference aussie:

1. As I posted way upthread, I too feel that erring on the side of caution is appropriate. I agree that keeping children safe shouldn't be compromised. I concur with your first paragraph.

2. As for your claim that Ahmed should be viewed suspiciously and be treated differently from the other kids because he's Muslim and Muslim inventors are rare, I think that's an odd response to this story. Your observations in those regards are discriminatory and bullshit, respectively, in my opinion.
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#25
HoTD, it's not just with inventions, but it's also in things like athletics, human rights on and on. It's just a different way of life and mindset and doing things. I know this first hand............unfortunately. Not itching for a fight on this one, because I have just been reading there are all those politically correct people who have started a hashtag for this 'discriminated' individual. He has also gotten an invitation from the white house. He is going to be fine.
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#26
I don't know if the situation would have been handled any differently by the school if Ahmed had been Jewish, or Christian, or Hindi... Ahmed's father suspects so, but the school says otherwise.

Since I haven't heard the details of what occurred from the teachers' side or the officers' side, I'm not assuming that Ahmed was discriminated against due to religion.

I just don't agree with you that he should be discriminated against because he's (a) Muslim and (b) therefore presumed not to be inventive. I know for a fact that there are some very innovative Muslims now and have been throughout history -- your experience working in the Middle East and your negative feelings can't take that away from them.
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#27
This country is going to hell in a hand basket.
Commando Cunt Queen
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#28
HoTD it's not just my negative experiences, it's my knowledge, insight about this subject. Profiling is discriminatory. LE were doing their job protecting the innocent. I know it's politically incorrect and not fashionable or fear based to voice this, but it's the truth.
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#29
I don't give a crap about politically correct or fashionable aussie. I'm often neither.

I responded to you saying that the 14-year-old should be regarded as suspicious because he's Muslim and thus not inventive. The former is discriminatory and the latter is bullshit -- that's a fact.

I'm not trying to tell you not to discriminate against Muslims (for whatever reasons) and not to bullshit, I was just responding to your comment. I found it odd, being that you ironically often call out others for trying to justify what you perceive as discrimination on their parts. That's all.
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#30
OMG HoTD, so it's really not a question, it's a comment you are making. A judgement. The thing is, you guys are the capital of the world for school violence with the horrific gun incidents. You are constantly threatened by Muslims and heaven only knows how many are thwarted that you don't know about. I don't even know what nationality his families country of origin is, I haven't asked that. That 'invention' did not look like an ordinary clock.

We had an incident at my workplace a couple of years back now, a suspicious package (Dr. forgot bag and left it in the main entrance driveway) which sent the place into lockdown as well as a busy city street. The police rang our ward to check if there was a muslim there as a patient.

It's a fact of life now, it's the world we live in. I would love it if this were not the case. When you get random people beheading someone in London or the other random with the bus, they have no choice, they have to be proactive to prevent death. That kids parents will probably take legal action and win some cash from it, so settle down now HoTD, they are all going to come out of it better than you and me.
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#31
I'll do my best to settle myself aussie. If I get any more settled, someone might need to wake me up though. Relaxed Drink

Seriously, of course, my reply to you was a comment. But it wasn't a judgment.

It was an observation and a statement of fact in reply to your remark:
Let's face it, how many muslim inventors do you know? They are certainly rare! They have to take responsibility for creating this hypervigiliance too.

That implies that you think the kid's religion helps to justify him being suspected, cuffed, arrested, booked, and questioned without his parents over his invention. You introduced his religion into the safety-above-all-else justification. That's your take and it doesn't surprise me that you feel that way aussie. It's odd to me how you protest perceived discrimination against some groups, but advocate for discrimination against others. That doesn't offend me in any way (though I wouldn't be surprised if Jimbone is having a bit of a laugh right now).

I know you didn't ask about Ahmed's nationality. Nobody said you did. You just, for some reason, invoked your experience and negative impressions of Muslim athletics and culture in the Middle East to support your argument that this particular kid (who happens to instead be African American) deserved to be discriminated against because of his religion. Personally, I don't even know yet whether he was discriminated against because of his religion.

The school says they would have treated any kid the same under the circumstances, regardless of the kid's religion, as a safety measure to prevent another school killing.

I'm aware of school killings in America, aussie. To the best of my knowledge, none of which has been carried out by a Muslim kid. The fact that Ahmed is Muslim has nothing to do with my support of vigilant safety policies designed to help prevent future school attacks. The next one could be plotted by yet another deranged white male of any or no faith, or a female, or a black kid, or a Sudanese-American brown kid ...

But, the kid's father -- Mohamed Elhassan Mohamed, who immigrated from Sudan and occasionally returns there to run for president -- suspects that you are right in assuming that Ahmed's religion prompted his arrest. Unlike you, however, he believes that such discrimination is wrong. In fact, Mr. Mohamed has been in the American spotlight before; he once made national headlines for debating a Florida pastor who burned a Quran. He's a politician and an activist against anti-Islamic thinking and actions.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to watch this one unfold. And, it's interesting to read your take on it, and everybody else's too.
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#32
I did not know that HOTD. Thanks, it puts an entirely new spin on why Obama became involved. hah
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
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#33
(09-17-2015, 09:45 AM)Maggot Wrote: I did not know that HOTD. Thanks, it puts an entirely new spin on why Obama became involved. hah

If you mean about Ahmed's dad's political aspirations and activism, I didn't know that til this morning.

I too find it interesting.
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#34
It makes me wonder if this kid was really singled out.
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
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#35
Suddenly it seems a little more like a set-up than a misunderstanding...
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#36
I don't know yet if Ahmed's dad's politics or activism have anything at all to do with how the kid was treated.

It's possible that the family wanted this type of exposure for alleged Muslim discrimination and helped make it happen.

It's also possible that because of his father's views/politics, Ahmed was treated with more suspicion than another kid would have been under the circumstances.

In any case, I think Obama and Clinton simply jumped on the bandwagon and, in my opinion, did so prematurely (unless they somehow had all the details right after the story broke, which I doubt).
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#37
There is nothing wrong with profiling, I don't care how politically incorrect anyone thinks it is. I wish it was done more often.
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
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#38
Here's some info about Ahmed's dad.

[Image: ahmed-Mohamed-Elhassan-Mohamed-715x400.jpg]

The arrest of Ahmed Mohamed, a 14-year-old Texas boy arrested for bringing a homemade clock to school, is one vivid example of overt Islamophobia in America.

That's a sentiment that Mohamed's own family has tried to fight against. His father, Mohamed ElHassan Mohamed, is a fascinating figure in his own right. He's a Sudanese immigrant who has twice declared himself a presidential candidate in Sudan.

When Florida pastor Terry Jones put the Quran on trial and later burned it in 2012, Mohamed was the Muslim holy book's defense attorney.

Formerly a customs worker at the Khartoum International Airport, Mohamed moved to the US from Sudan in the 1980s and started out selling candy, hot dogs, and newspapers in New York, according to a profile in the North Dallas Gazette in February. He later moved to Dallas, where he delivered pizza, drove taxis, and eventually started a cab company, Jet Taxi.

In 2010, he ran for president in Sudan for the National Reform Party and created a campaign website. The Sudan Tribune, based in Paris, ran a story on his liberal platform. In it, he promised that he would get US sanctions against Sudan lifted within 100 days of being elected.
http://www.sudantribune.comspip.php?article54000

Full piece: http://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/9339063/ahm...d-elhassan
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#39
I wonder what the school's story is. You'd think the boy could have just simply told his English teacher that it's a project he made for engineering class and she could have confirmed it with the engineer teacher, end of story.
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#40
Please try and keep up Sally, we have moved on to a juicy conspiracy theory here.
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
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