US agency (NSA) “collecting phone records“

[Maggot]

Change........own it.

[Duchess]

This kind of thing has been going on for quite awhile.

Russ Tice, a former intelligence analyst who in 2005 blew the whistle on what he alleged was massive unconstitutional domestic spying across multiple agencies, claimed Wednesday that the NSA had ordered wiretaps on phones connected to then-Senate candidate Barack Obama in 2004.

Speaking on "The Boiling Frogs Show," Tice claimed the intelligence community had ordered surveillance on a wide range of groups and individuals, including high-ranking military officials, lawmakers and diplomats.

"Here's the big one ... this was in summer of 2004, one of the papers that I held in my hand was to wiretap a bunch of numbers associated with a 40-something-year-old wannabe senator for Illinois," he said. "You wouldn't happen to know where that guy lives right now would you? It's a big white house in Washington, D.C. That's who they went after, and that's the president of the United States now."

Host Sibel Edmonds and Tice both raised concerns that such alleged monitoring of subjects, unbeknownst to them, could provide the intelligence agencies with huge power to blackmail their targets.


Story

[username]

What's really disturbing is how many of you are going all "hey I'll give up my personal freedoms so some distant sheep farmer won't attack me on Maple Street." As fucking if. Snitches get stitches right? Who cares if we are rapidly pissing away everything that made those other places jealous of us to start with? Jesus it's like explaining trigonometry to toddlers.

Unwarranted illegal spying on your own citizens as a "deterrent to unnamed possible activity" of a nebulous and vaguely defined enemy doesn't protect us from a threat. It IS the threat. The world will watch us implode and it will laugh like kids on a playground when the biggest bully does a face plant tripping on his shoelace.

They're not spying to catch good guys, Donovan. Did you hear about the supposed 50 plots that have been foiled by this program? Is it unreasonable search and seizure? Sure but I feel the same way when somebody wants to search my purse at a sporting event or something.

It would be fabulous if there weren't people out there wishing they could fly planes in to more of our tall buildings but there are. How would you propose the government try to protect its citizens from attacks of that nature?

[Donovan]

Change........own it.

Liberty...mourn it.

[Donovan]

What's really disturbing is how many of you are going all "hey I'll give up my personal freedoms so some distant sheep farmer won't attack me on Maple Street." As fucking if. Snitches get stitches right? Who cares if we are rapidly pissing away everything that made those other places jealous of us to start with? Jesus it's like explaining trigonometry to toddlers.

Unwarranted illegal spying on your own citizens as a "deterrent to unnamed possible activity" of a nebulous and vaguely defined enemy doesn't protect us from a threat. It IS the threat. The world will watch us implode and it will laugh like kids on a playground when the biggest bully does a face plant tripping on his shoelace.

They're not spying to catch good guys, Donovan. Did you hear about the supposed 50 plots that have been foiled by this program? Is it unreasonable search and seizure? Sure but I feel the same way when somebody wants to search my purse at a sporting event or something.

It would be fabulous if there weren't people out there wishing they could fly planes in to more of our tall buildings but there are. How would you propose the government try to protect its citizens from attacks of that nature?

Stop electing them?

The ends do not justify the means. There is every reason to suspect the official version of 9-11, and there is every reason to suspect a group of former leaders with plenty to hide of fabricating or exaggerating "foiled plots" they won't elaborate on. The promise only to use their illegal and illicit spying "for good" is essentially a pathological liar promising only to lie for noble reasons..

[username]

Stop electing them?

The ends do not justify the means. There is every reason to suspect the official version of 9-11, and there is every reason to suspect a group of former leaders with plenty to hide of fabricating or exaggerating "foiled plots" they won't elaborate on. The promise only to use their illegal and illicit spying "for good" is essentially a pathological liar promising only to lie for noble reasons..

Which "means" are you referring to? Just this or x-rays at airport security, searches at sporting events or cameras at traffic lights? How about those pesky sobriety checkpoints?

I'm not sure what you mean about suspecting official versions of 9-11. I've heard people postulate that the Pentagon was never hit...do you think that? I've also heard that people suspect the Colorado movie theatre shooter was mind controlled by the government to further gun control efforts. Really?

I heard about this today. Shame on federal agents monitoring this guy's internet postings...

Working off clues from a blurry image of an 11-year-old girl wearing pajamas in the back of a car, federal agents scrambled to find the pedophile who posted the image on the Internet and asked how he should rape the little girl.

Determined Homeland Security agents in Washington, D.C., analyzed the photo for any possible clues that could lead them to the girl’s location. Agents were ultimately able to beat the odds and save the girl in an operation they called “Sunflower.”

Story:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/...nt-page-3/

Granted, the PRISM program warrant process seems shrouded but supposedly, they are obtaining warrants to gather specific information.

I think you're just trying to fuck with CN. I could swear we've been on the same side of conspiracy theorist arguments where we agreed that the number of people needed to successfully carry off these large scale conspiracies make them highly unlikely. Or maybe I'm mistaking you for someone sane.

[Donovan]

Which "means" are you referring to? Just this or x-rays at airport security, searches at sporting events or cameras at traffic lights? How about those pesky sobriety checkpoints?

None of these examples you provide are either secret, illegal or hidden from the people of this country. Annoying, maybe. But not illegal. The warrantless spying is in direct violation of the fourth amendment. There is a huge difference between inconvenient and illegal.

I'm not sure what you mean about suspecting official versions of 9-11. I've heard people postulate that the Pentagon was never hit...do you think that? I've also heard that people suspect the Colorado movie theatre shooter was mind controlled by the government to further gun control efforts. Really?

Your argument is histrionic and extreme. I said there are many documented government falsehoods and deliberate lies associated with the official version of 9-11. Not conspiracy, fact. Such as the repeated insistence that Iraq was somehow involved despite all evidence to the contrary, and the suppression of Saudi involvement. Our government is perfectly capable and willing to lie to us repeatedly in self-interest and the pursuit of personal gain. That also is not conspiracy theory.

I heard about this today. Shame on federal agents monitoring this guy's internet postings...

Working off clues from a blurry image of an 11-year-old girl wearing pajamas in the back of a car, federal agents scrambled to find the pedophile who posted the image on the Internet and asked how he should rape the little girl.

Determined Homeland Security agents in Washington, D.C., analyzed the photo for any possible clues that could lead them to the girl’s location. Agents were ultimately able to beat the odds and save the girl in an operation they called “Sunflower.”

Story:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/...nt-page-3/

Granted, the PRISM program warrant process seems shrouded but supposedly, they are obtaining warrants to gather specific information.

A little digging uncovers that this story isseveral years old and 1) involved posts made on the worldwide web, after which detectives HAD PROBABLE CAUSE TO INVESTIGATE a crime in progress. In other words, legal procedure was established and followed. Not the same thing as just gathering everybody's info from private data and keeping it. Not to mention it's pretty fucking convenient this story suddenly surfaces again now with a spin making it look like the NSA are singlehandedly saving the world through illegal spying.

I think you're just trying to fuck with CN. I could swear we've been on the same side of conspiracy theorist arguments where we agreed that the number of people needed to successfully carry off these large scale conspiracies make them highly unlikely. Or maybe I'm mistaking you for someone sane.

It would indeed be highly unlikely for a vast network of people to come together for a common longterm future goal such as the theory that the Illuminati rule the world bla bla. However, there is no such limit on the ability of bad men and greedy men to seek wealth and self preservation. That's not conspiracy it's human nature. People in power want to keep it, and our entire society was deliberately designed to thwart that. Our founding fathers recognized that men are greedy and power hungry by nature. That's why they made it hard for America to be undone by despots. By giving away liberties they fought like hell to provide you, you are doing a disservice to your own American way of life.
Simple as that.
If you think the right not to have your personal effects( letters, pamphlets, postings etc) seized at will without due process and probable cause is one you can do without, then you don't deserve it and shame on you. Keep in mind: the conversation we are having right now could be seen as treasonous since we are questioning our leaders. How okay would you be with being arrested tomorrow and dragged away for no other reason than your remarks here were seen as a potential threat to national security? Sedition is a very subjective charge...

[username]

If you're citing the 4^th amendment, you don't think that searching an innocent person's stuff or random traffic sobriety stops aren't illegal search and seizure? Why? How is that different?

With regards to Prism and FISA, you're ignoring the fact that supposedly there are legal procedures in place (including obtaining warrants) to pursue individual conversations etc. Granted, JohnQPublic might not be aware of what's going on in that regard but that doesn't mean there wasn't approval at all branches of government. No one has said that what they're doing is "illegal" although it might be offensive.

[username]

blah, blah, blah...

You still haven't told me what steps you would take, given the technology available to you, to make sure that ricin isn't introduced in to my water supply or that someone doesn't ride a plane in to the Golden Gate bridge. Would you sit back and play with your hair or utilize modern technology to find the bad guys at the risk of offending someone? huh?

[Cynical Ninja]

I think you're just trying to fuck with CN.

....And failing miserably.

To-may-to, to-ma-to, po-tay-to, po-tar-to.

Yawn!

It find it amusing that donovan douchebag swallowed all that sweet land of liberty/land of the free shit as enthusiastically as a hooker swallows semen. There's a sucker born every minute. The US government has been wiping its arse with the US constitution for decades.

[HairOfTheDog]

WASHINGTON, June 21 (Reuters) - The U.S. government has filed sealed criminal charges against former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, who admitted leaking secrets about classified U.S. surveillance programs, U.S. sources said on Friday.

A U.S. Justice Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said a criminal complaint had been filed against Snowden, who disclosed documents detailing U.S. telephone and internet surveillance efforts.

Another U.S. source, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the United States was preparing to seek Snowden's extradition from Hong Kong, where he is believed to be in hiding.

full story:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21...80984.html

[Cynical Ninja]

Yes, he IS a criminal NOT a hero.

These are the facts.

[Maggot]

There is much to be said for remaining anonymous.

[Donovan]

blah, blah, blah...

You still haven't told me what steps you would take, given the technology available to you, to make sure that ricin isn't introduced in to my water supply or that someone doesn't ride a plane in to the Golden Gate bridge. Would you sit back and play with your hair or utilize modern technology to find the bad guys at the risk of offending someone? huh?

Given that you currently admin on a site where you have actively participated in a debate where a highly critical person (me) has just essentially accused his own government of certain crimes, under the provisos of the warrantless spying you support we both could be considered treasonous spies. Sedition is a rather vague and easily misused charge. We are the bad guys. Will you sit playing with your hair if they come for you? You DO know that the first step in any society's attempt to assert control is the elimination of all dissenting voice right? You know, monitoring and removing those who speak out against policy through pamphlets, newscasts, and rhetoric?

No one is going to ride a plane into the golden gate bridge, it would be extremely ineffective as anything but a cool special effect in movies, and your concept of how ricin works is woefully inadequate, probably gleaned from fearmongers like Rush and Beck. If we are to be brought down as a nation, it will not be by chanting zealots but by our own inability to recognize the dangers from our own lawmakers.

[Donovan]

I think you're just trying to fuck with CN.

....And failing miserably.

To-may-to, to-ma-to, po-tay-to, po-tar-to.

Yawn!

It find it amusing that donovan douchebag swallowed all that sweet land of liberty/land of the free shit as enthusiastically as a hooker swallows semen. There's a sucker born every minute. The US government has been wiping its arse with the US constitution for decades.

Be quiet, sheepfucker, I lost interest in you when I realized you aren't very bright.

[Cynical Ninja]

There is much to be said for remaining anonymous.

He's not only a traitor his a stoopid traitor who couldn't resist his fifteen minutes of fame.

I'd still like to know why he chose China as a place to hide, there's more to that than meets the eye mark my words.

[Cynical Ninja]

Be quiet, sheepfucker, I lost interest in you when I realized you aren't very bright.

The US government has been wiping its post coital dick on the stars and stripes for ages you gullible septic motherfucker. Land of the free?! They taught you all that shit in school didn't they? Probably while the US government were checking if your parents had any left wing political views, you know, the reds under the bed? All they've done is replace the reds with the ragheads.

[Duchess]

I'd still like to know why he chose China as a place to hide, there's more to that than meets the eye mark my words.

I don't know much about how this works so take it for what it's worth. I think that while the United States has an agreement with Hong Kong in regards to extradition there is the added caveat that it only applies unless it has to do with political crimes and surely this would be considered political, right?

[username]

He may get extradited eventually but most people think it won't be until he's fully debriefed by the Chinese government. They're not going to have that nugget in their midst without pumping him for all he's worth.

Traitor.

[Cynical Ninja]

He may get extradited eventually but most people think it won't be until he's fully debriefed by the Chinese government. They're not going to have that nugget in their midst without pumping him for all he's worth.

Traitor.

Exactly, he will at least be fully debriefed while he is in China they wouldn't let him stay there otherwise the treacherous piece of shit.

The White House has contacted Hong Kong for the extradition of Snowden.

The Obama administration confirmed to the BBC that it had asked for his transfer under an agreement between the US and the Chinese territory.

A senoir administration official was quoted as saying failure to act soon could “complicate relations” between the two countries.

In May, Mr Snowden fled to Hong Kong after leaking details of the operation.