US agency (NSA) “collecting phone records“

[Cynical Ninja]

I don't know much about how this works so take it for what it's worth. I think that while the United States has an agreement with Hong Kong in regards to extradition there is the added caveat that it only applies unless it has to do with political crimes and surely this would be considered political, right?[/i][/size]

He is a traitor regardless of what your politics are the chinks will be bending his ear as we speak.

Traitor!

[Cynical Ninja]

Now he's gone to.....Moscow! Then he is said to be on his way to Venezuela via.....Cuba!

Honestly does this stoopid motherfucker know what he's doing or what? Because if he does he is just heaping more suspicion on what his dodgy motives are for blabbing.

[HairOfTheDog]

He may get extradited eventually but most people think it won't be until he's fully debriefed by the Chinese government. They're not going to have that nugget in their midst without pumping him for all he's worth.

Traitor.

Snowden reportedly told Hong Kong authorities about alleged hacking of some of their computer systems by the US. Now, he's reportedly in Russia. What will he reveal to Mr. Putin?

[MOSCOW — A former National Security Agency contractor wanted by the United States for revealing highly classified surveillance programs has been allowed to leave for a "third country" because a U.S. extradition request did not fully comply with Hong Kong law, the territory's government said Sunday.

The Department of Justice said only that it would "continue to discuss this matter with Hong Kong and pursue relevant law enforcement cooperation with other countries where Mr. Snowden may be attempting to travel."

It (Hong Kong) acknowledged the U.S. extradition request, but said U.S. documentation did not "fully comply with the legal requirements under Hong Kong law." It said additional information was requested from Washington, but since the Hong Kong government "has yet to have sufficient information to process the request for provisional warrant of arrest, there is no legal basis to restrict Mr. Snowden from leaving Hong Kong."

The statement said Hong Kong had informed the U.S. of Snowden's departure. It added that it wanted more information about alleged hacking of computer systems in Hong Kong by U.S. government agencies which Snowden had revealed.

Full story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/23...ref=topbar
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I don't consider constitutional liberty to be an antiquated concept. It still matters today, imo.

But, the definition of "liberty" has always invited various interpretations; as has its application to an ever-changing political and societal environment. Positive liberty vs. negative liberty vs.; individual liberty vs. societal liberty... People have conflicting opinions about which matters most and which form of liberty, if any, should be sacrificed for the sake of another form.

Personally, I can live with the US government stumbling upon the fact that I ordered a sausage and jalapeno pizza and called my sister a hooker 3 weeks ago if it helps them to prevent a terrorist attack.

It's no surprise to me that such surveillance has been going down since ⁹⁄₁₁ (and before then, on a lesser organized scale). There are laws against what the government can do with any ancillary information they discover during the course of such surveillance, as covered in the policies outlined within the PDFs posted upthread.

I think Snowden's a dick shine. My liberty has never been in his hands; he's no savior. He's a snitch posing as a patriotic martyr. He's enjoying the attention and his little adventure as an international fugitive on the run. Selfish man. The teenaged Barefoot Bandit did it better without compromising national security in the process. IMO.

[ZEROSPHERES]

Power corrupts. This surveillance system is very powerful stuff indeed. In time we may see the road to hell again was paved with good intentions.

[Duchess]

So who has access to the dirty little secrets they uncover that have nothing to do with national security but nonetheless are used in another manner, say, blackmail. I don't give a rip if they listen to my conversations or read my emails but there are plenty of people who do, people with something to hide that doesn't have anything to do with the US and keeping her safe. What about all of that? What about all the people in positions of power who get their hands on that info and use it to their own end. I'd like to see someone answer that.

[Cynical Ninja]

He's a snitch posing as a patriotic martyr.

That's EXACTLY what he is but I think some people have been mainlining the “sweet land of liberty” coolaid for so long they can't see this.

God knows what information he has already revealed to China and how much he is going to reveal to that little hunchbacked twat in the Kremlin and to Fidels brother in Cuba and to the left wing loonies who rule Venezuela. He seems to be doing a tour of all the worlds most fucked up countries I'm surprised he didn't pop in for a chat with North Korea and Iran.

Ed Snowden:The Axis of Evil tour: 2013.

[username]

Ecuador has received an asylum request from the traitor.

[ZEROSPHERES]

Ecuador has received an asylum request from the traitor.

I am with-holding judgement until more is revealed about this issue. He may be a traitor like Daniel Ellsberg.

[Duchess]

He may be a traitor like Daniel Ellsberg.

I've been reading about The Pentagon Papers. Do you see parallels?

[username]

Ecuador has received an asylum request from the traitor.

I am with-holding judgement until more is revealed about this issue. He may be a traitor like Daniel Ellsberg.

Bad enough that he disclosed domestic issues but now he apparently gave info to Hong Kong about our activities there. If that's not a traitor, I don't know what is.

[Cynical Ninja]

He seems to be tittle tattling with two of Americas rival superpowers.

[ZEROSPHERES]

@Duchess, (The Pentagon Papers) Some parallels? Possibly yes. Both men may have been led by moral convictions that outweighed any perceived consequences for their actions.

[Duchess]

@Duchess, (The Pentagon Papers) Some parallels? Possibly yes. Both men may have been led by moral convictions that outweighed any perceived consequences for their actions.

I've never paid attention to a lot of this stuff before now, I just never took an active interest but after reading a little in regards to The Pentagon Papers it would seem that all Administrations probably have something to hide and while I had a poor opinion of those in charge it is even worse now. They all fuckin' lie under one guise or another. Whatta bunch of bullshit. I don't like that young man running around the world talking to the powers that be in other countries but I am glad he let the cat out of the bag and I am glad that people are talking about it. There is a huge divide in America over this and I expect it to get worse in regards to what will be made public in the near future. Journalists are now engaged in fighting each other over this.

[username]

At this point anyone who views what he's doing as heroic is a fucking idiot. Does anyone think Russia will let him pass through because they're nice guys? No, they're pumping him for intel too.

Rumor has it, he downloaded God knows what to a thumb drive.

Fucker. I don't think it will happen but I'd fully support his assassination.

[Duchess]

Fox news is reporting that the United States has revoked his passport.

Wouldn't it stand to reason that the people who vetted this person be government officials? It wasn't, it was private contractors who are now under a criminal investigation. Reuters reported that hiring screeners at Booz Allen Hamilton, (the private contractors) found discrepancies and hired him anyway. Gee whiz.

[HairOfTheDog]

^ It's unbelievable that a screening company would not flag and resolve such basic personal information before green lighting someone for a classified position. Educational records are easily confirmed/denied. You don't hire someone who lies or even exaggerates their basic credentials for classified positions; kinda defeats the purpose of screening to verify one's credibility/trustworthiness.

One good thing that will come out of this; the screening processes will definitely be tightened.

QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS BACKGROUND (HOTD: these are the ones revealed to the public, there are allegedly some other aspects of his background that didn't necessarily check out, but those areas have not been disclosed publicly).

According to sources familiar with the matter, Snowden, a high school dropout who later passed the high school equivalency test known as the GED, stated on his resume earlier this year he attended computer-related classes at Johns Hopkins University, a Tokyo campus of the University of Maryland and the University of Liverpool in Britain.

According to the sources, the resume stated that Snowden "estimated" he would receive a master's degree in computer security from Liverpool some time this year.

Some of the educational information listed on the resume did not check out precisely, said the sources, who are not authorized to comment publicly.

Despite that, Booz Allen Hamilton hired him at an annual salary of $122,000 to work as a contractor for the NSA in Hawaii. Snowden had been on the job there for about four weeks when he traveled to Hong Kong last month and leaked the U.S. government secrets that made him known around the world.

Tracey Reeves, a spokeswoman for Johns Hopkins, said that the university could find no record that Snowden had taken classes there.

A spokesman for University of Maryland's University College division said that records showed that Snowden did attend, in person, a summer session at a campus that the college operates in Asia. He declined to specify the location or provide any information about Snowden's course work.

A spokeswoman for the University of Liverpool said in an email that Snowden had registered for an online master's program in computer security in 2011. But she added that "he is not active in his studies and has not completed the programme."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/20...75518.html

Whether there's some reasonable explanation for these apparent discrepancies/exaggerations or not, the green lighting shouldn't have occurred before Snowden's credentials were confirmed. Foolish.

[Duchess]

Our government outsourced America's security-clearance vetting to for-profit companies owned by private equity firms. I'm almost moved to laugh hysterically at that.

[Duchess]

More drama - The plane heading to Cuba has left Moscow and it's being reported that Snowden is not on board.

I'm telling everyone I know that the United States government outsourced the vetting for top secret security clearance to a for profit organization. That just might be the funniest thing I've read all year. If this doesn't convince anyone that our government is retarded, nothing will.

Outsourced

[Donovan]

Cynical Nimrod misunderstands the concept of freedom as he lives in a socialist state which never enjoyed it. But freedom isn't a given, and liberty isn't a guarantee. People in power want to keep it, plain and simple, and the people must ALWAYS mistrust their leaders to the point of exposing their activities when they become illegal or unconstitutional. It has nothing to do with whether or not that guy was looking for attention. Nobody looks for that kind of attention and the worst fucking enemy you can have is a pissed off world power. He's squawking all over the place because his only chance of not being "disappeared" is to stay in the public eye while he tries to find a place to hide. All the rhetoric, all the accusations of treason, all the public media-fueled vitriol...propaganda which could easily be turned full force in anyone here if we were in a position to become a problem to powerful and publicly embarrassed men.

[Cynical Ninja]

Socialist state?! What a load shit! Yeah the multi millionaire Conservative Etonian who is currently Prime Minister of the UK is well known for his socialism and socialist policies. You are just jealous of our universal health care and safety net for the poorest and most vulnerable in society. The fact you are still voicing support for this cynical blabbermouth who couldn't resist going on CNN to get his 15 minutes just highlights what a deluded moron you are. The chinks and the ruskies have probably already downloaded all the information he had on the data stick he is said to be carrying around with him. Your baffling continued support for a traitor makes you look like a blethering conspiracy loony.