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(06-04-2018, 03:35 PM)BigMark Wrote:
(06-04-2018, 12:50 PM)Donovan Wrote: Are you surprised? He doesn't seem to know the difference between statesman and crime boss either.

I do, the crime boss has honor.

Smiley_emoticons_skeptisch

Sadly, I don't even know if you're being serious or facetious Biggie.
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He's serious. Remember, he's the same one who believes there are different rules for different people.

In the order of full disclosure, I just read that it was Senator Menendez' staff who were barred. Senator Menendez was not there.
[Image: Zy3rKpW.png]
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Mark's a troll and I listen to very little of his nonsense. Maggot I think truly believes the shit they feed him on fox. That's why he thinks the secret vast conspiracy network of every fucking person in the entire assembled Washington DC area is powerful enough to pre-emptively set up a sting of Donald Trump years or decades before he ran for office by magically forcing him to become involved with Russian mobsters so that they could catch him IN CASE he ever tried to run for president...

But these same omnipotent deep state illuminati weren't smart enough to keep him from winning.

There literally is no limit to the amount of bullshit people like Maggot will swallow. And if it wasn't my country too I'd say, Chew on, ya fuckin idiot. But it is my country, so I am obliged to continue pointing out exactly what good old Donnie is doing and how in fact we are being fucked over. All of us. Not just the snowflakes or the trumpetheads.
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
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(06-04-2018, 03:49 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:
(06-04-2018, 03:35 PM)BigMark Wrote:
(06-04-2018, 12:50 PM)Donovan Wrote: Are you surprised? He doesn't seem to know the difference between statesman and crime boss either.

I do, the crime boss has honor.

Smiley_emoticons_skeptisch

Sadly, I don't even know if you're being serious or facetious Biggie.
Honor among crime bosses is a myth of Hollywood. As we will see when this family starts to topple in three...two...one...
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
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The fact that someone is a crime boss automatically precludes him or her from being 'honorable'. Profiting from overseeing an organization of criminals who steal from people, scam people, shake down and blackmail people, launder money, murder people..........is not 'honorable' by definition, obviously.
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(06-04-2018, 07:20 PM)Donovan Wrote: Mark's a troll and I listen to very little of his nonsense. Maggot I think truly believes the shit they feed him on fox. That's why he thinks the secret vast conspiracy network of every fucking person in the entire assembled Washington DC area is powerful enough to pre-emptively set up a sting of Donald Trump years or decades before he ran for office by magically forcing him to become involved with Russian mobsters so that they could catch him IN CASE he ever tried to run for president...

But these same omnipotent deep state illuminati weren't smart enough to keep him from winning.

There literally is no limit to the amount of bullshit people like Maggot will swallow. And if it wasn't my country too I'd say, Chew on, ya fuckin idiot. But it is my country, so I am obliged to continue pointing out exactly what good old Donnie is doing and how in fact we are being fucked over. All of us. Not just the snowflakes or the trumpetheads.

Just in case you want to know Dopey, I have not watched FOX in quite a while I may have gone on fox to watch last years football games. I would not know any commentators by name but I sure bet you know all of them on CNN, MSNBC, or PBS,
I do listen to Howe Carr occasionally and can only take about 12 hr of a Levin show. I read the paper mostly and it's usually the Union Leader out of N.H.
You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the clue mating dance.
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(06-04-2018, 07:31 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: The fact that someone is a crime boss automatically precludes him or her from being 'honorable'. Profiting from overseeing an organization of criminals who steal from people, scam people, shake down and blackmail people, launder money, murder people..........is not 'honorable' by definition, obviously.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CVNNP0Q/ref...TF8&btkr=1

Great read. I recommend it since you don't think a Don can be honorable.
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As I said Gunnar, someone who oversees an enterprise which profits off proliferating crime against others is not 'honorable' (to anyone but people who condone crime).

You and Biggie might like the guy's bravado, or charisma, or public persona in general. And, if you want to buy into crime bosses being honorable.......it doesn't surprise or bother me.

But......no book, tv show, or movie can convince me that people whose chosen business it is to oversee and profit from exploitation, scamming, blackmailing, trafficking, murder......are honest, moral, and ethical human beings.

That doesn't mean that some of them can't also be loyal to their families and friends and beloved by their subordinates. However, that doesn't make them honorable people and worthy of admiration, to me.
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hah Holy shit. I don't think a crime boss is honorable either. Fuckin' aye, but I don't care if others hold different standards on what is considered honorable. hah
[Image: Zy3rKpW.png]
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It was a bit of hyperbole meant to insult the politician.
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(06-05-2018, 09:41 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: As I said Gunnar, someone who oversees an enterprise which profits off proliferating crime against others is not 'honorable' (to anyone but people who condone crime).

You and Biggie might like the guy's bravado, or charisma, or public persona in general. And, if you want to buy into crime bosses being honorable.......it doesn't surprise or bother me.

But......no book, tv show, or movie can convince me that people whose chosen business it is to oversee and profit from exploitation, scamming, blackmailing, trafficking, murder......are honest, moral, and ethical human beings.

That doesn't mean that some of them can't also be loyal to their families and friends and beloved by their subordinates. However, that doesn't make them honorable people and worthy of admiration, to me.
Papa Joe made his $$$ off prohibition. And I'm not surprised you prefer to make a judgement based on ignorance.
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I know who Papa Joe is, Gunnar. And, no, I don't consider him honorable.

Bootlegging is not the only crime he engaged in. He also led his mob in racketeering and gangs, was questioned in relation to another boss's assassination, was arrested for immigration law violation, and assisted crime families with other illegal activities through the legitimate businesses he established. He was successful, that I acknowledge, and doesn't appear to have been among the worst of the crime bosses back then.

Anyway, Joe Bonanno longed to be respected and admired. The book you recommended, "A Man of Honor" is an autobiography -- self written ant titled. I wouldn't expect it to focus on the shadiest of the shit that crime bosses oversaw.

But, as I said, it doesn't surprise or bother me if you view him and other crime bosses or Dons as being men of honor. I just don't share your view.
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The new term for "crime boss" is "community organizer" C'mon it's the 21st century. 78
You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the clue mating dance.
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Mob bosses subscribe to the same "code" that is exhibited in the current white house: that the ends justify any means. Old school mobsters clung to their so-called patriotism and false honor as symbols that they weren't such bad guys, and they bribed and bought whole neighborhoods so locals who knew no better would be at least sympathetic to them. People who never interacted with outlaws and mobsters except in movies might romanticize them but there is no such thing as an honorable gangster in real life. They're nasty pieces of work and generally it's best not to get in with them at all. My old man was in with every damn gangster and biker outfit in the midwest and western USA. The bikers were mean sons of bitches when you crossed them and were horrible human beings to anyone with tits or extra pigment but had a stricter sense of honor than mobsters. Truth.
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
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(06-05-2018, 11:48 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I know who Papa Joe is, Gunnar. And, no, I don't consider him honorable.

Bootlegging is not the only crime he engaged in. He also led his mob in racketeering and gangs, was questioned in relation to another boss's assassination, was arrested for immigration law violation, and assisted crime families with other illegal activities through the legitimate businesses he established. He was successful, that I acknowledge, and doesn't appear to have been among the worst of the crime bosses back then.

Anyway, Joe Bonanno longed to be respected and admired. The book you recommended, "A Man of Honor" is an autobiography -- self written ant titled. I wouldn't expect it to focus on the shadiest of the shit that crime bosses oversaw.

But, as I said, it doesn't surprise or bother me if you view him and other crime bosses or Dons as being men of honor. I just don't share your view.
Joe did a lot for the community here. Thanks for the lesson, but at 51 years on this earth I actually understand what an autobiography is.
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It wasn't a lesson Gunnar. Just an emphasis on the fact that the book you recommended to demonstrate that crime bosses can be honorable was written by a crime boss about himself.
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(06-05-2018, 07:33 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: It wasn't a lesson Gunnar. Just an emphasis on the fact that the book you recommended to demonstrate that crime bosses can be honorable was written by a crime boss about himself.
He did his best to leave the NY crime family and become legit when he moved to Tucson. He didn't rat and turn states evidence like many did to avoid doing time when the shit hit the fan and flat out refused to be involved in the narcotics trade. That's why they came after him (kidnapped him) at Appalachin. Personally, I see those three things to be honorable. I'm sure you will disagree because you know... That's what you do.
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Ben Siegel did a lot for Vegas and even offered to kill a few Nazi leaders, but it didn't stop him from taking a bullet when he outlived his usefulness. Mob guys are pretty much all the same and I saw them from big outfits and rinky dink crews. They pay off who they need to be useful, they threaten or intimidate those who they need to keep quiet, and they kill or hurt those who need to be taught some obscure lesson about fucking with their livelihood, which is crime. Any nonsense about loyalty or codes is just that. Nonsense. I know a lot of stories I can't really share based on the old man's dealings, he was involved with dozens of different outfits and a lot are loosely interconnected. But one example that sticks out was his lifelong association with a mob out of Wichita, lasted years and was probably his highest position with any of them. He was the trusted partner of the head guy, Papa Burke. Ran hustles and grift and shakedowns and darker shit for him for as long as I remember. At one point we were living in the guy's compound and eating at his restaurant every day.

And for all of that "loyalty" it didn't stop Burke from chasing the old man down to Texas and trying to shoot up the house he was in (full of other people) with a machine gun while pop hid in the shower. That's what mob loyalty is. A nice high-velocity retirement gift.
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
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(06-06-2018, 09:13 AM)Donovan Wrote: Ben Siegel did a lot for Vegas and even offered to kill a few Nazi leaders, but it didn't stop him from taking a bullet when he outlived his usefulness. Mob guys are pretty much all the same and I saw them from big outfits and rinky dink crews. They pay off who they need to be useful, they threaten or intimidate those who they need to keep quiet, and they kill or hurt those who need to be taught some obscure lesson about fucking with their livelihood, which is crime. Any nonsense about loyalty or codes is just that. Nonsense. I know a lot of stories I can't really share based on the old man's dealings, he was involved with dozens of different outfits and a lot are loosely interconnected. But one example that sticks out was his lifelong association with a mob out of Wichita, lasted years and was probably his highest position with any of them. He was the trusted partner of the head guy, Papa Burke. Ran hustles and grift and shakedowns and darker shit for him for as long as I remember. At one point we were living in the guy's compound and eating at his restaurant every day.

And for all of that "loyalty" it didn't stop Burke from chasing the old man down to Texas and trying to shoot up the house he was in (full of other people) with a machine gun while pop hid in the shower. That's what mob loyalty is. A nice high-velocity retirement gift.
Hmmm... Interesting. Yeah, Joe didn't go out like that but cool story bro. hah
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That's a sanitized version 100% truth but it doesn't matter. Bottom line is there is no loyalty among mobsters
Just varying degrees of continued usefulness. Weighed against liability. And the minute liability tips the scales, you find yourself fitted for a tan suit made of desert sand.

And here's a news flash. Nobody retires from the mob, not really. People get old and stop actively earning and turn over their rackets to the next gen, but payments continue and when somebody leaves town he becomes "our guy in fill-in-the-town" to be utilized should the need arise. Anybody who tells different is lying.
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
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