08-02-2018, 08:49 AM
Absolutely. Part of the problems with these kinds of debates is that they are political and politicised and so facts are lost in the soundbytes and talking points. It is not ever about being correct, it is about winning and being right. Right is not necessarily correct or even factual. Being in the right side or being morally right is seen often as being better than being truthful.
So nasty xenophobic Trump wants to build a wall and keep out illegal immigrants.
See, I am an Aussie. When he went on a tear saying shit like "They're rapist, They're murders, They're drug dealers and some are I assume good people" It was fucking word salad. None of that makes any sense. Obviously not all of them were rapist, murderers or drug dealers being he assumes some are good people and you can't be good people if you are any one of those things. So there was that and there was also in the same stream of consciousness he said They are "sending them". Who? Who in Mexico is"sending them". I had no idea.
What did I do? I looked up rapists, murderers, drug dealers, border US and Mexico and various combinations of these words in Google. Did I get an education and this is the kind of stuff gore sites will post.
Rape Trees?
![[Image: more-rape-trees.jpg?w=590&h=388]](https://punditfromanotherplanet.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/more-rape-trees.jpg?w=590&h=388)
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/..._n_5806972
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...sings.html
https://wgno.com/2018/06/19/state-police...operation/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_de...tes_border
See I get it. I do. It is nice to paint the mental picture of the nasty Trump who hates Mexicans and the poor downtrodden immigrants just trying to get into US to start a new life and bring their family in to become Americans and make a new life for themselves and contribute to the American Dream and Trump is being an arsehole.
Except. Many of those poor downtrodden men have raped a number of those poor women. Many of those poor families are not families at all and the parents professing love and a want to be kept together with their family was not a family until they were in sight of the border patrol.
Some of the families are not escaping violence but escaping justice.
Here is an example of the narrative hitting the wall https://www.youtube.com/results?search_q...+agent+cnn
So what is to be done? Build that wall. It will not stop everyone. There is always ways and means but it is like saying why lock your door because some burglars will still break in. A wall will mean that there is still going to be legal ports of entry that a desperate refugee can apply and be assessed for asylum status and the legal immigrants applying for a citizenship can still do that but there will be less sneaking over, through or around the border.
Perhaps a way to look at this is to push aside preconceptions and imagine.
You are a middle aged Central American man with a wife and teenage daughter and teenage son and an elderly mother and you make your way to the US border. You get intercepted by Mexican cartel members because you tried to sneak in. They support your efforts. Your Mother was too slow and holding everyone up. She could not keep up and was left to die from exposure in the heat. She did not get to see your wife and teenage daughter getting raped. But you and your son did and were powerless to stop them. Somewhere on some bush is their underwear. But they made it into America the land of opportunity because the border was unprotected.
I think this is evil. I think supporting this kind of thing is something I cannot support. A nation should protect its borders and close down or reduce this kind of predatory behaviour if they can. It is a moral imperative and openly supporting open borders and seeking to reduce the role of border patrol agents and the like is close on evil.
Edit: Trump DOES say a lot of really stupid crap. Some of his ideas really do not rate with me. Anti-vaccination? Birtherism? Yep some stuff is stupid. This isn't. I think it is moral.
So nasty xenophobic Trump wants to build a wall and keep out illegal immigrants.
See, I am an Aussie. When he went on a tear saying shit like "They're rapist, They're murders, They're drug dealers and some are I assume good people" It was fucking word salad. None of that makes any sense. Obviously not all of them were rapist, murderers or drug dealers being he assumes some are good people and you can't be good people if you are any one of those things. So there was that and there was also in the same stream of consciousness he said They are "sending them". Who? Who in Mexico is"sending them". I had no idea.
What did I do? I looked up rapists, murderers, drug dealers, border US and Mexico and various combinations of these words in Google. Did I get an education and this is the kind of stuff gore sites will post.
Rape Trees?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/..._n_5806972
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...sings.html
https://wgno.com/2018/06/19/state-police...operation/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrant_de...tes_border
See I get it. I do. It is nice to paint the mental picture of the nasty Trump who hates Mexicans and the poor downtrodden immigrants just trying to get into US to start a new life and bring their family in to become Americans and make a new life for themselves and contribute to the American Dream and Trump is being an arsehole.
Except. Many of those poor downtrodden men have raped a number of those poor women. Many of those poor families are not families at all and the parents professing love and a want to be kept together with their family was not a family until they were in sight of the border patrol.
Some of the families are not escaping violence but escaping justice.
Here is an example of the narrative hitting the wall https://www.youtube.com/results?search_q...+agent+cnn
So what is to be done? Build that wall. It will not stop everyone. There is always ways and means but it is like saying why lock your door because some burglars will still break in. A wall will mean that there is still going to be legal ports of entry that a desperate refugee can apply and be assessed for asylum status and the legal immigrants applying for a citizenship can still do that but there will be less sneaking over, through or around the border.
Perhaps a way to look at this is to push aside preconceptions and imagine.
You are a middle aged Central American man with a wife and teenage daughter and teenage son and an elderly mother and you make your way to the US border. You get intercepted by Mexican cartel members because you tried to sneak in. They support your efforts. Your Mother was too slow and holding everyone up. She could not keep up and was left to die from exposure in the heat. She did not get to see your wife and teenage daughter getting raped. But you and your son did and were powerless to stop them. Somewhere on some bush is their underwear. But they made it into America the land of opportunity because the border was unprotected.
I think this is evil. I think supporting this kind of thing is something I cannot support. A nation should protect its borders and close down or reduce this kind of predatory behaviour if they can. It is a moral imperative and openly supporting open borders and seeking to reduce the role of border patrol agents and the like is close on evil.
Edit: Trump DOES say a lot of really stupid crap. Some of his ideas really do not rate with me. Anti-vaccination? Birtherism? Yep some stuff is stupid. This isn't. I think it is moral.