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ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN
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aussiefriend Away
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Post: #43
RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

(08-02-2014 07:01 AM)Mohammed Wrote:  Fuck Israel!

That remark is in no way helpful and not helping the plight of the suffering Palestinians. I have spent today arguing with right wing 'Christians' about the violence perpetrated on innocent children and civilians by the Israeli's. By the same account, I do not consent to murder by anyone irrespective of passport, race or color of their skin.

It is wrong 100% what Israel is doing. I do not support the violence and the killing of Palestinians. Having said that I do not support Hamas and the murder of Israeli's or Jewish people. I love arabic people, and I love Jewish people too. Both have very positive aspects to their culture and individuality.

My belief and understanding, and my knowledge is quite substantial, is that if you leave the Palestinians to worship their God and give them their own State, to live and dwell in peace they will not infringe on anyone - at all. Arabic people, are friendly and very hospitable. However, if you get aggressive with them and kill their children they will not sit down and take it. If the Israeli's do not stop their killing and violence this will escalate globally. The other Arab nations will not sit by idle and allow this to occur. Iran has already released a statement.

They need to talk this out and make a deal. Sign it and finish with the violence. It will not be resolved by violence, on the contrary. Once some genius figures that out they will be halfway there.





08-02-2014 09:00 AM
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Maggot Offline
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RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

Muslims in America would perform (and some do) FGM given the chance. Islam directives almost require it. Hamas is no different. In Indonesia it is standard practice. Don't let the anti-Semitism prevalent in the media get the best of you. Remember when Israel falls the edicts of the Koran become law be it radical or the silent majority and it will not stop there. If you believe that Israel should sit by and become a doormat just say it.

some info yes found on the internet






08-02-2014 09:20 AM
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aussiefriend Away
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RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

FGM is one thing, the violence in the Middle East is another. Stop mixing up the issues. If that is part of their culture it is none of your business. I don't agree with it, but I am not a muslim living there. You can't infringe your values and culture on others who are not the same as you.

Murder is murder, killing is killing. Killing a child is wrong, irrespective of race, religion or passport. God is not a racist. He won't care what excuse you give, and if you condone it, or turn a blind eye you are as guilty as those who commit those atrocities. Evil is happening on both sides.

'All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing'.





08-02-2014 09:45 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

(07-31-2014 10:18 AM)Duchess Wrote:  Kinda wild to me that the US would scold Israel for the number of deaths yet sell them more ammo.


[Image: 41c9284d-12a8-4955-9465-71288e76e9b7_zps...1406986671]





08-02-2014 09:45 AM
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Duchess Away
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RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN



That's so embarrassing.

Am I just dumb and not getting it? I don't understand it even a little bit.






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08-02-2014 10:03 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #48
RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

You're far from dumb.

I get it -- at least I have firm opinions about the rationale behind the US's responses and actions.

My take on it all is based on knowing the history of the establishment of the state of Israel and the physical and ideological battles between the Jews and Palestinians since then + considering the US conventional wisdom and alliances starting in 1947 + tying that into the US's present day relationships and fears in regards to the whole of the Middle East and the current state of each of the ME countries (along with the cross-border fundamentalist Islamic groups/networks in the region).

I'm far from an expert, but don't think it's possible to get the current politics of it by looking only at what's been happening at the Gaza Strip since June 2014, and I don't think it's necessary to go back thousands of years and dissect the religious writings and beliefs to understand it either.

ETA: to filter the facts and news from the rhetoric of both sides and still get a local/regional perspective, for me, it requires reading beyond the NY Times, Washington Post, and CNN for any given account. I usually check out these too:
http://www.haaretz.com
http://www.aljazeera.com





08-02-2014 10:26 AM
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Mohammed Offline
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RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

(08-02-2014 09:20 AM)Maggot Wrote:  Muslims in America would perform (and some do) FGM given the chance. Islam directives almost require it. Hamas is no different. In Indonesia it is standard practice. Don't let the anti-Semitism prevalent in the media get the best of you. Remember when Israel falls the edicts of the Koran become law be it radical or the silent majority and it will not stop there. If you believe that Israel should sit by and become a doormat just say it.

some info yes found on the internet

Seriously, where do you get all that shit from? I spend a good 8 years in Indonesia, sort of my second home, my brother lives in Bali since 6 years, my estimate is that I fucked about 300 Indonesian girls and I still have to find one with a cut clit.

It is some weird African, mainly around Somalia, practice and has never happened before in these Islamic parts. Right now if I go out onto the streets of this very Islamic country and ask the next guy if his wife's clit is cut, he will first slap me, then tell me "Mashalla bakala bakala!" which is Arabic for "What the fuck are you talking about?!"

Seriously, who is feeding you this shit?! Fox News?

And Aussie, none of the remarks here is in any way helpful or will be, unless you gonna say "Fuck yeah!", strap on your magazine belt, grab your AK and take the next Qantas flight over to Gaza, then perhaps. But until then, yeah, fuck Israel!

We both know the Arabs are nuts, but I'm living quite peacefully among them for many years and experienced some of the most gracious and respectable moments of my life, but what Israel is doing is just fucked up. It's like Germany going to another country, putting walls and barbed wire around a certain people, then controlling every little bit that goes on in there. There was a place like that and it was called the Warsaw Ghetto.

What Israel is doing is to me the equivalent of all the Blacks in South Africa suddenly starting up Apartheid again just the other way. Surely the world would go "Wtf?!" as they of all people should know the best. Then again, Zimbabwe sure did just that. They are in the shit as we all know. Most probably because Hollywood and De Beers ain't run by Zimbabweans. Among many other things of course.

Russia didn't even shoot down that plane with 290 people inside, but is bombarded with sanctions. Israel killed over a thousand folks by now, yet I don't see anybody screaming "Sanctions!!".

How come?!





08-02-2014 10:28 AM
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Maggot Offline
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RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

How can you have a truce then lob rockets during the truce and expect retaliation NOT to come? I don't get it either. Does Israel have tunnels into Gaza? This is what happens to humanitarian aid to Gaza.

AMMAN, Feb 9 (Reuters) – Jordan said on Saturday the Islamist Palestinian group Hamas has confiscated a convoy of humanitarian aid sent to people living under an Israeli blockade in the Gaza Strip.

Minister of State for Information Affairs Nasser Joudeh told the state news agency Petra that Hamas members on Thursday seized 16 trucks carrying emergency supplies into Gaza and diverted the cargo to a warehouse run by the Islamist group.

Hamas has ruled the Gaza Strip since June when it routed secular Fatah forces loyal to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who has revived peace talks with Israel.

“We are surprised it should be confiscated and distributed in a manner based on political considerations…this only penalizes those who really deserve this aid,” Joudeh said.

The tunnels.........made from humanitarian aid concrete to Gaza.






08-02-2014 10:36 AM
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Maggot Offline
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Post: #51
RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

What is the Hamas charter? Have you seen it? All they have to do is show they are willing to live in peace. When given the chance its abused over and over.
And as far as news outlets, I do not trust one single one. They are all out for a buck and nothing more, all of them.






08-02-2014 10:44 AM
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Duchess Away
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Post: #52
RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

(08-02-2014 10:26 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  ETA: to filter the facts and news from the rhetoric of both sides and still get a local/regional perspective, for me, it requires reading beyond the NY Times, Washington Post, and CNN for any given account. I usually check out these too:
http://www.haaretz.com
http://www.aljazeera.com


Thank you very much! I am genuinely interested in this.

I don't recall hearing much of anything from over there in recent years until those three teens were killed and now the shit has hit the fan in a major way. I feel sorry for the people on Gaza, I really do. Life goes on for those living in Israel, I'm left with the impression they all go about their daily lives in a normal manner.






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08-02-2014 10:48 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #53
RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

I haven't touched on the Israeli settlement expansion in the West Bank in this thread. IMO, that's one of the present day barriers to trusting Israel for Palestinians (not just Hamas), much of the Arab world, and many across the globe really.

Netanyahu is no fan of Obama and practically endorsed Romney in the 2012 elections. That's not only because Obama refused to support military action against Iran and Syria as Netanyahu would have liked, but also because Obama did not back up Netanyahu's justification for continuing to build Jewish settlements on Palestinian ground.

Netanyahu claims the settlements are legal and that he's simply allowing agreed-to existing settlements to expand as needed. However, many look at the map and the settlement and outpost expansions -- plus the Jewish regional birth rates -- and see it as Israel pushing Palestinians out of the desirable areas, in violation of international law.

It's an interesting contributing factor to today's tensions and one of the reasons that Palestinians in the West Bank have come out and shown some solidarity with the people of Gaza by protesting Israel in this latest escalating war between the IDF and Hamas.





08-02-2014 11:09 AM
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Mohammed Offline
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RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

No, I'm not saying Hamas is right. Far from it, they are taking absolute advantage of the fact that children are being killed and the world starts pointing their finger at Israel. I am sure every time you see a dead child of Gaza on BBC or Jazeera, Hamas is going "Hi hi!"

However, I am also sure that by now, everybody has seen this pic. If not, here it is.

[Image: gal_6222_zps008a5012.jpg]

The Holocaust lasted from 1939, Kristallnacht was 38 but the real industry of "The Solution" came up from 1941. WW2 ended 1945. That's 4 years. Gaza is since 1947. That is 67 years!

How did Israel happen?

After World War II, millions of Europeans were living under guard and behind barbed wire fences and without adequate medical care and other services in "displaced persons" camps within Germany and Austria. European Jews then began organizing an underground network known as the Brichah ("flight," in Hebrew), which moved thousands of Jews from the camps to ports on the Mediterranean Sea, so they could then be sent to Palestine by ship. This was part of what was known as Aliyah Bet or the "second immigration," which were a series of attempts by European Jews to immigrate illegally to Palestine before and after World War II.[1] Originally the European Jews arranged transport to Palestine themselves. Later, they requested and received financial and other support from sympathizers elsewhere in the world. The boats were largely staffed by volunteers from the United States, Canada and Latin America.[2] Over 100,000 people tried to illegally immigrate to Palestine, as part of Aliyah Bet.[3]

The British, who were then responsible for administering Palestine, vehemently opposed this kind of large-scale immigration. Displaced person camps run by American, French and Italian officials often turned a blind eye to the situation, with only British officials restricting movement in and out of their camps. In 1945, the British reaffirmed the pre-war policy restricting Jewish immigration to Palestine which had been put in place following the influx of a quarter of a million Jews fleeing the rise of Nazism in the 1930s and had been a major cause of the Arab revolt of 1936–1939. The British then prepared a massive naval and military force to turn back the refugees. Over half of 142 voyages were stopped by British patrols, and most intercepted immigrants were sent to internment camps in Cyprus, the Atlit detention camp in Palestine, and to Mauritius. About 50,000 people ended up in camps, more than 1,600 drowned at sea, and only a few thousand actually entered Palestine.

The Exodus 1947 was the largest Aliyah Bet ship carrying the largest-ever number of illegal immigrants to Palestine and its name and story received a lot of international attention. The incident took place near the end of Aliyah Bet and towards the end of the British mandate, after which Britain withdrew its forces and the state of Israel was established. Historians say Exodus 1947 helped unify the Jewish community of Palestine and the Holocaust-survivor refugees in Europe as well as significantly deepening international sympathy for the plight of Holocaust survivors and rallying support for the idea of a Jewish state.[4][5] One called the story of the Exodus 1947 a "spectacular publicity coup for the Zionists."[6]


If ANY other nation or people would do the same to another people, I wonder what the world would have to say. At least nowadays, because how did America become such a great industrial nation? By Europeans coming to a new land and getting rid of those pesky locals. Australia? Vote for a happy Aborigine before they got all wiped out on Tasmania. Maybe Israel is just doing what everybody else did. Get rid of those annoying locals, and business will be smooth. They sure learned how it's being done.

Do you go to a playground to beat up some kids who have shovels as weapons? Well, I sure don't.





08-02-2014 11:39 AM
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Duchess Away
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Post: #55
RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN



Wow. I hadn't seen that map before now.

...just because my President supports Israel doesn't mean I do. I don't.






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08-02-2014 11:47 AM
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Maggot Offline
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Post: #56
RE: ISRAEL VS. PALESTINE...AGAIN

Another map

[Image: shrinking+israel.jpg]






08-02-2014 11:55 AM
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