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TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE
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thekid65 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

Those that think the officer acted to hastily have obviously not spent enough time in the crime ridden areas of larger cities. 12 year old wannabe gang-bangers DO carry the real fucking thing these days. If I'm an officer, rolling up on that shit, you can damn well be sure I'm gonna be safe as opposed to sorry.

HoTD..IMO, you see a kid, holding a weapon you believe to be real, I dont care if it takes 20 shots...motherfucker isnt getting a chance to use it. These guys have to make split second decisions, and they are exposed to the most heinous bullshit on a daily basis. It's easy to sit back and judge...walk a mile in their moccasins..then come back and talk.

And yes, it's a shame that a 12 year old died. And I'd like to believe that no officer wants to maliciously injure/kill such a young kid.

Duchess..it seems like a nanosecond, because it's time lapse. Granted, it may have been a short time between the point to where the officers pulled up, and shots were fired..but the video makes it look much shorter than what it was.






Of the millions of sperm injected into your mother's pussy, you were the quickest?

You are no longer in the womb, friend. The competition is tougher out here.

11-29-2014 09:53 AM
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Midwest Spy Away
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Post: #16
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

The only cop I've known was a jerk, but that being said, I personally want as many of them on the streets as possible to take care of the criminals that live among us.

As a (mostly) law-abiding citizen I don't have a whole lot to fear as to negative encounters with police.

In analyzing these two shootings I think there are two distinct differences.

In Ferguson, there's a cop on his own who says to two individuals "quit walking down the middle of the street. move to the sidewalk." he gets a "fuck you", is attacked while still in his squad, his gun goes off and he then pursues them.

He is without a partner or a backup. At this point he is scared (as Duchess has mentioned) and will react accordingly. I still believe wholeheartedly that Brown was charging him and that's why he's dead.

With the 12 year old you have a pair of cops responding to a 911 call. They were not scared IMO, but were going to neutralize the threat as quickly as possible.

I agree that it's very sad that a 12 year old had to lose his life in this manner.

Brown was part of the criminal element and attacked a cop. If this was white on white, with the exact same circumstances we'd have never heard of this case.





11-29-2014 10:00 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #17
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

(11-29-2014 09:53 AM)thekid65 Wrote:  HoTD..IMO, you see a kid, holding a weapon you believe to be real, I dont care if it takes 20 shots...motherfucker isnt getting a chance to use it. These guys have to make split second decisions, and they are exposed to the most heinous bullshit on a daily basis. It's easy to sit back and judge...walk a mile in their moccasins..then come back and talk.

I've spent a fair share of my life living smack dab in urban areas with high crime, Kid.

I have no reason to believe that these officers shot Tamir Rice because he was black. I have no reason to believe that these officers were looking to kill someone when they responded to the call, much less a kid. I have every reason to believe that these cops believed that Tamir was an adult; I heard the officer say so directly as Tamir was dying in the grass.

I have reason to believe that these cops were operating with less information about what they were potentially approaching than what could have been available to them. I heard the 911 complaint call, and I heard what the dispatcher relayed to the responding officers. I believe that the information which was not passed on to the responders may have influenced their perceptions and could have resulted in a different outcome.

I have reason to question why an assessment wasn't made before fatal shots were fired in this case -- I've watched the video and it happened very quickly -- in under 2 seconds. I understand that you believe it was an appropriate approach and an appropriate shooting response. However, the Deputy Chief of Police acknowledges that questions pertaining to the appropriateness of the manner in which the officers approached and their quickness in firing are valid questions that need to be investigated. I agree with the Chief over TheKid65.

The cops were not being fired upon and they were aware that the person they were approaching had not fired a gun at all. They yelled instructions (reportedly) out the door of a running car and shot the person (who turned out to be a kid with a toy gun) within 2 seconds of reported non-compliance.

The cops may have been justified, or it may be that the rookie was unqualified to respond to such a call. The 911 dispatcher may have been justified in leaving out details when communicating with responding officers, or she may have been in violation of policy. I'm interested to hear what the investigation reveals. Until then, I respect that you don't think it's appropriate to question police or 911 under such circumstances. I disagree and think it's dangerous not to ask questions in such circumstances, even though I'm well aware of the dangers that LEOs face in areas like Cleveland and I appreciate what they do. Different views, that's all.





11-29-2014 11:32 AM
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Duchess Away
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Post: #18
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

(11-29-2014 09:49 AM)Carsman Wrote:  always being under the "media's" watchful camera, for the "media" just waiting to pounce on any error they may make, and putting it out to the world


...and that's exactly how it should be. As you have stated, they are just like everyone else and like so many in today's world they deserve to be scrutinized because they can't be trusted. Of course that doesn't apply to all of them but too bad, they all need to be watched.






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11-29-2014 11:40 AM
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Maggot Offline
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Post: #19
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

Maybe a rioting mob could break into the police station, grab the cop and put him on a table in the center of town and go at him like Mel Gibson portrayed William Wallace in "Braveheart" that would be a real story that could be broadcast at 6pm with a gleam in the eyes of the reporters. All Sharpton could say at the end "justice is done" and Jesse Jackson could pray. The President could say "If I had a son he would have 20 virgins now" and FOX news could gnash their teeth until their lower jaws became salivating mounds of mush.

Meanwhile:
As the snow flies
On a cold and gray Chicago mornin'
A poor little baby child is born
In the ghetto






11-29-2014 12:31 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

(11-29-2014 09:53 AM)thekid65 Wrote:  Duchess..it seems like a nanosecond, because it's time lapse. Granted, it may have been a short time between the point to where the officers pulled up, and shots were fired..but the video makes it look much shorter than what it was.

That's incorrect, Kid.

Loehmann, 26, shot Rice between 1.5 and 2 seconds after pulling up in a patrol car, according to Deputy Chief Ed Tomba. The vehicle was driven by veteran Cleveland police officer Frank Garmback, 46.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cleveland-of...atrol-car/

Some of us are asking questions about the shooting death of a kid based on what the 911 call reveals, what the dispatch to first responders reveals, what the video of the shooting reveals, and what Chief Tomba revealed in the press conference. Those are tangibles; facts.

The questions are legitimate and the answers are being pursued via police investigation. In the meantime, questions and discussion and opinions stated as such are all encouraged in the crime forum.





11-29-2014 01:45 PM
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username Offline
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Post: #21
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

(11-29-2014 11:32 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  I have reason to question why an assessment wasn't made before fatal shots were fired in this case -- I've watched the video and it happened very quickly -- in under 2 seconds.

Eggsactly. The speed in which this happened is mind boggling as is the fact that they practically ran the kid over as opposed to parking the car in such a way that they could give their instructions to "drop the weapon" with slightly more clarity. It would take me longer than 2 seconds to process the request and drop my fucking purse if a cop demanded I do that. The kid was probably briefly paralyzed/shocked to have a cop car almost on top of him--2 seconds is not enough time to think clearly under those circumstances.

The whole thing was fucked up.

There seems to be a false belief that more and more officers are getting killed in the line of duty every year to justify this hyper vigilance on the part of the police. That is not the case:

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fata.../year.html






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11-29-2014 02:15 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #22
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

I don't know the policy about approaching someone believed to be armed with a gun in a public place. It could be that driving up to him was part of their training. Tamir did walk towards the car and Tamir reportedly did pull up his shirt and reached for the gun in his waist band (can't see that from the video).

It's undisputed that it happened very quickly, in under 2 seconds, which is of concern to many. But, that doesn't mean a review of all of the circumstances won't show that it was a justified shooting according to policy and given the information that the officers had at the time.

Anyway, I really wanna know if the investigation into the Tamir Rice shooting/killing will show that the officers should have been provided more information by 911 dispatch and whether it is believed that it would have made a difference.

I also wanna know why the officers didn't attempt to aid Tamir after the shooting, even though Cleveland police are trained to do so. The Chief said he doesn't know why they didn't and that all of the officers' actions are under investigation. I think it's good that the public is interested in why/how this happened; every case should be an opportunity to determine if improvements can be made to better ensure and protect public safety without casualties and that's more likely to happen with more eyes watching.

It's estimated that it will take 90 days to complete the internal review/investigation before the case is handed off to the grand jury. I won't be surprised if an independent agency is brought in to oversee the internal review; there are a lot eyes on this one and mistrust of the police.

The toy guns and bebe/pellet guns these days look very real. It's a shame that kids (not just black kids) are getting killed for playing aggressively with toy guns in public. It's kinda odd that outlawing realistic looking toy guns is being discussed because they are too easily mistaken for real guns, which are legal to open carry in the same area.





11-29-2014 06:54 PM
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Duchess Away
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Post: #23
RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE



I feel like I can understand both points of view. It was so fast yet to not be fast could mean your death.






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11-29-2014 07:00 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

(11-29-2014 07:00 PM)Duchess Wrote:  I feel like I can understand both points of view. It was so fast yet to not be fast could mean your death.

I'm looking at it from both angles as well.

Whether this was a justified shooting -- even though the officers' presumptions/perceptions regarding threat to their lives were clearly wrong -- can't be known yet. There are too many pieces and circumstances that need to be investigated/evaluated, IMO.

It's gonna be a long wait for the internal nvestigation and grand jury hearings to wrap up.





11-29-2014 07:08 PM
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Duchess Away
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

(11-29-2014 07:08 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  It's gonna be a long wait for the internal nvestigation and grand jury hearings to wrap up.


...and boy do we know how tedious THAT can be.

I'm anxious for some action in the case of the hillbillies kidnapping, raping and murdering the pretty blonde. The waiting in so many of these cases is frustrating at times. Jodi would be a good example.






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11-29-2014 07:15 PM
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Carsman Offline
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

A 12 year old with a gun, can kill a cop dead (and you) just the same as a 20 year old with a gun can. Dead is dead just the same. The end.

(Cops put their lives on the line every day, day after day, they don't get paid enough! Most leave their widows, & kids poor when they get killed by a gun carrying kid/man/woman.)






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11-29-2014 08:40 PM
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username Offline
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

Meh, go back to the chart I posted Cars. All things considered, very few officers lose their lives in the line of duty.

It takes more than 2 seconds to say the words (even once) "drop your weapon". By my count, that's 2-3 seconds right there. From the looks of the video, they didn't give the kid (and I don't care if he was a kid or an adult) even a moment to process what they were saying. Not to mention even a few feet of distance.

Major police over reaction and shame on that dispatcher for not giving them more of the information provided by the 911 caller. I wonder what he thinks about what happened now.






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11-29-2014 09:54 PM
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Carsman Offline
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

(11-29-2014 09:54 PM)username Wrote:  Meh, go back to the chart I posted Cars. All things considered, very few officers lose their lives in the line of duty.

It takes more than 2 seconds to say the words (even once) "drop your weapon". By my count, that's 2-3 seconds right there. From the looks of the video, they didn't give the kid (and I don't care if he was a kid or an adult) even a moment to process what they were saying. Not to mention even a few feet of distance.

Major police over reaction and shame on that dispatcher for not giving them more of the information provided by the 911 caller. I wonder what he thinks about what happened now.

Wow, that chart is showing drastically low number of cop killings. The chart I saw a few weeks ago, showed 794, but I can't find it right now, I'll keep looking for it.






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11-29-2014 11:51 PM
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