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IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?
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Midwest Spy Away
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Post: #15
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

^^ shock value is all well and good... in the appropriate setting.





03-07-2015 02:30 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #16
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

^ Did you come up with that deep thought all by yourself, MS? Blowing-kisses





03-07-2015 02:34 PM
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sally Away
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Post: #17
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

(03-07-2015 02:20 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  The impacts of some of his poems are greater than the content of them, IMO.


If I was a high school senior and asked my thoughts on the poem that would be about the only thing I could come up with. That and it made me want to hurl, end of story. There is really nothing to analyze in the poem itself. "Howl" would have been a more challenging assignment and he'd probably still have his job.





03-07-2015 03:11 PM
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Midwest Spy Away
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Post: #18
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

(03-07-2015 02:34 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  ^ Did you come up with that deep thought all by yourself, MS? Blowing-kisses

I'm just reiterating my opinion that the teacher who used this material in his class is an idiot for doing so.





03-07-2015 03:17 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #19
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

I understand how you and MS feel, sally.

I don't personally find the poem disgusting and probably wouldn't have in high school, but I don't think its content and execution are notable works of literature either. It's all subjective.

I'm interested to know what assignment/topic Olio was instructing when the poem was read in class. I could see the poem being highly appropriate for several different topics of analysis and study, though not in a high school setting (by most people's standards). Olio's not charged with a crime or anything, so unless he chooses to make a public statement or file a civil suit, I'll probably never know.





03-07-2015 03:24 PM
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Donovan Offline
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Post: #20
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

That wasn't appropriate for the classroom, and like Sally I'm unimpressed with it as a whole. There are much more provocative ways to introduce sexual expression into a poetry class. Hell, just let them read some of Shakespeare's best sonnets and them let them know there's a good chance many of them were written to a man. I am of the opinion that forcing one's overt sexuality on a captive audience is in its own way as bad as the forced oppression of sexuality. Same reason I don't care much for Mapplethorpe's photographic "piss jesus" stuff. Too obvious. T

This wasn't any sort of provocative art, it was just "Fifty Shades of Gay."

Oh come on, Someone had to say it...





03-07-2015 03:36 PM
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username Offline
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Post: #21
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

Ha ha!!! Well said, Donovan. I agree. It wasn't appropriate in a high school setting and it is like hitting a tack with a sledgehammer. Over the top choice.






Commando Cunt Queen
03-07-2015 04:52 PM
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sally Away
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Post: #22
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

(03-07-2015 03:36 PM)Donovan Wrote:  I am of the opinion that forcing one's overt sexuality on a captive audience is in its own way as bad as the forced oppression of sexuality. Same reason I don't care much for Mapplethorpe's photographic "piss jesus" stuff. Too obvious. T


HotD mentioned she was interested in the assignment/topic Olio was instructing when the poem was read in class. What you said could be one of the topics.

The poem itself is still utter garbage and too "in your face" sexually explicit for high school. I could see some of the more conservative holy roller parents looking at that and thinking wtf are you teaching my kid at this school, how to be a homo.





03-07-2015 05:38 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #23
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

^ Yeah, I did a little research and that might be the case.

Olio was teaching an elective AP course -- it's college level and tied into the University of Connecticut. The focus is post-modern literature, so gotta think the non-conservative and sometimes provocative works of Vonnegut, Pynchon, Kerouac, Burroughs, Gaddis, Foster, Ginsberg...would be explored. Examining language identity invention in relation to race, sexuality, gender and such is part of the class syllabus.

I could see the poem fitting the context well and being read without causing a shitstorm, IF the course were being taught to college students sitting in a classroom at University of CT. Big difference between college and high school expectations and environments, even with the most advanced high school seniors. If Olio lost sight of that, he really screwed up.

I'm just speculating here.





03-07-2015 08:24 PM
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Donovan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

I have seen some pretty provocative things in a classroom and been responsible for a couple of sketchy moments. For example, in a job preparation segment at an alternative school I spent time in, I secured permission to screen "Clerks" which is pretty racy in parts. But it also had solid redeeming qualities, was pertinent to the subject matter and was also a good object lesson for what it meant to Kevin Smith since the course was an
English elective. However, I still had to send written notes home explaining the movie was adult themes and content, excuse any student who didn't wish to attend, and excise a couple of the more bawdy bits like the blowjob argument.





03-07-2015 10:57 PM
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sally Away
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Post: #25
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

Both my older kid's favorite movie in the 5th-8th grade was Jay and Silent Bob. I think it depends on the maturity of the kid what you decide to censor them from. I thought they were mature enough to watch it. I also walked down the red light district with them when they were 12 and 16. A life experience and not a big deal to me.





03-07-2015 11:23 PM
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sally Away
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Post: #26
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

You can't expect that from every parent, however. Some parents would totally disregard that Ginsburg was an influential poet in his time and how he impacted others(no pun intended) and only see that he was a gay jew fuck.

So if you're a teacher adamant about doing Ginsburg you would at least need to send home permission slips. I think most of the class would opt out.





03-07-2015 11:49 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #27
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

(03-07-2015 10:57 PM)Donovan Wrote:  I have seen some pretty provocative things in a classroom and been responsible for a couple of sketchy moments. For example, in a job preparation segment at an alternative school I spent time in, I secured permission to screen "Clerks" which is pretty racy in parts. But it also had solid redeeming qualities, was pertinent to the subject matter and was also a good object lesson for what it meant to Kevin Smith since the course was an English elective. However, I still had to send written notes home explaining the movie was adult themes and content, excuse any student who didn't wish to attend, and excise a couple of the more bawdy bits like the blowjob argument.

While parental concern never factored into the equation for me with college students, I can imagine it's ever-looming for high school teachers. It's good that you weren't over-sheltering and predictable (boring), while also understanding that you should respect parental concerns in advance.

Based on nothing but a very detail-void story + Olio's 2013 class syllabus + a really good impression of Olio's ability to inspire his students after viewing one of his teaching videos, I think Olio's failure to respect both sides of that coin may be what got him in hot water in the OP case.

Do you have any regrettable in-class teaching memories, Donovan? I do.





03-08-2015 01:01 AM
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Donovan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: IS THIS BULLSHIT OR APPROPRIATE?

(03-08-2015 01:01 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  Do you have any regrettable in-class teaching memories, Donovan? I do.

Ohhh, yeah. My classroom history is somewhat limited since my career took a different path, but I did have a pretty disastrous seventh grade stint that started badly and ended worse. Left a horrible taste in my mouth for teaching in general, since a lot of my issues stemmed from the staff. It was the worst example of how insular, clique-y and immature adult teachers can be.





03-08-2015 09:21 AM
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