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OBAMA'S LEGACY
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

(03-09-2015 01:31 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  Yeah, I don't see it the same way as you do, Gunnar.

I don't think the lack of stories about unarmed white folks being shot by black cops is because the media is hiding them in an act of racial discrimination.

I also don't resent people for choosing to exercise their constitutional rights to free speech and public assembly, whether I agree with their causes or disagree with them.

So, we disagree and yet coexist well here at Mock; continuing to express our opposing positions freely. Mock is a diverse democratic little community like that; gotta love it.
I never said I resented anyone. I just don't believe it is warranted every time a white cop shoots a person of color (and for the record my black sister agrees that it's redicuous). Believe it or not, sometimes the use of deadly force is required regardless of the persons skin color. The fact that you never hear about a protest because a black cop uses deadly force against a black person is proof that discrimination is alive and well in the good ole US of A.





03-09-2015 01:54 PM
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Maggot Offline
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Post: #16
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

That does not fit the narrative.






03-09-2015 02:08 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #17
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

No, I don't believe it!! Sometimes deadly force is required by police, regardless of race? Sarcastic

Yeah, I'm not mentally retarded, Gunnar. So, I'm aware of that fact.

I'm even aware of the fact that sometimes deadly force is required (or reasonably perceived to be required) even if one party is armed and the other is not.

And, sometimes deadly force is not required or reasonably perceived to be required and it gets used anyway.

So, you don't resent protests even when you disagree with the protestors and think the protests are unwarranted. Sorry, I misunderstood you previously then.

You posted: "The fact that you never hear about a protest because a black cop uses deadly force against a black person is proof that discrimination is alive and well in the good ole US of A." I don't doubt that discrimination is alive in the good ole US of A -- but that certainly is not proof of it, in my opinion.





03-09-2015 02:14 PM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

(03-09-2015 02:14 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  No, I don't believe it!! Sometimes deadly force is required by police, regardless of race? Sarcastic

Yeah, I'm not mentally retarded, Gunnar. So, I'm aware of that fact.

I'm even aware of the fact that sometimes deadly force is required (or reasonably perceived to be required) even if one party is armed and the other is not.

And, sometimes deadly force is not required or reasonably perceived to be required and it gets used anyway.

So, you don't resent protests even when you disagree with the protestors and think the protests are unwarranted. Sorry, I misunderstood you previously then.

You posted: "The fact that you never hear about a protest because a black cop uses deadly force against a black person is proof that discrimination is alive and well in the good ole US of A." I don't doubt that discrimination is alive in the good ole US of A -- but that certainly is not proof of it, in my opinion.
I think it's discriminatory to protest when it's a white cop that shoots a black person. Nobody protests when a black cop shoots a black person or any other combination of races. white cop vs. black person = protest. Last time I checked the definition of discrimination is the practise of treating a person or group of people differently from other people or groups of people. You can say it's not proof, but it sure does fit the definition rather nicely.





03-09-2015 03:13 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #19
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

^ I understand your reasoning, Gunnar. I just don't agree with it.

So, is there anything other than the unarmed shooting protests that you think will define Obama's presidential legacy?





03-09-2015 03:47 PM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

(03-09-2015 03:47 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  ^ I understand your reasoning, Gunnar. I just don't agree with it.

So, is there anything other than the unarmed shooting protests that you think will define Obama's presidential legacy?
A decline in the quality of healthcare, but we won't feel that for another 4-8 years.





03-09-2015 04:01 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

I think President Obama's speech at the eulogy for Senator Clementa Pinckney will be a prominent part of his legacy.







And, Gunnar -- along the lines of what we were discussing upthread -- while I don't share their views, I respect the rights of these southerners and others across the country to assemble publicly and protest what they feel is discrimination against them.

[Image: 18210514-large.jpg]





06-28-2015 02:16 PM
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Maggot Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

If anything this President will be known for stirring as much controversy as possible, good or bad I don't think he cares as long as the spotlight is on him. A President of the minority and a leader of dissent.






06-28-2015 02:29 PM
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blueberryhill Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

Well, I just lost my entire reply....I could just scream.....

Obamacare is a good thing. It is only discussed in context of political debates. How about we have a discussion with consumers, doctors, hospitals, etc. in a town meeting and really discuss this. More people have health insurance now than any time in history....who do you think paid for uninsured people before....
We know now it is working and we don't have to wait 4 or 5 years to determine this.....

Leader of dissent? There was no dissent prior to Mr. Obama?......We were divisive and dissenting all over the place, but like a boil, it has been brought to a head so that true healing can ensue. We fear change, but it is time for progress, not regression. Some politicians seek to take us back to an earlier time...The fight for equal rights continues and we are making progress, but still a long way to go.....

I think Mr. Obama will go down in history as one of our great Presidents. I think he has values and wants what is best for all the people, not just special groups. Today's minorities will be tomorrow's majorities......our demographics are changing and the majority voted for Mr. Obama twice.

One final note, I don't think Mr. Obama is seeking the spotlight for personal gain....he can laugh at himself; i have seen humility, pride, pain, joy, sadness, humor, etc. in his face just like other humans display.





06-28-2015 05:22 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #24
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

However he ends up being remembered historically, this week was a pivotal one.

The Affordable Health Care Act/ObamaCare was upheld by the Supreme Court, same-sex marriage was legalized, and he finally and very passionately addressed directly the issue of civil rights and racial equality.

I think some of his eulogy was theatrical and opportunistic, but I also think it was powerful and it doesn't seem that anybody in attendance was anything but positively affected.

Obama lost me altogether by the end of his first term, but I've felt more positively about him in his second. Now, I think he might end up being a President who's remembered largely for moving the country closer towards equality for all than anything else. But, he's still got over a year left of work to do.

Anyway, if he continues to accomplish some of his first and second term goals and the Republicans don't change up some of their positions on social issues, I think the chances of a Democratic win in 2016 will be greatly increased. If so, paving the way for at least 12 consecutive years of Democratic Presidential leadership will be part of his legacy too, IMO.

These are interesting times.





06-28-2015 05:46 PM
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SIXFOOTERsez Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

Interesting times indeed.
The No1 asshole anti gun pres ever and this is what he has done

http://allenbwest.com/2015/06/yeehaw-thi...s-explode/

He has been the most devisive president in history

I couldn't give less of a shit about the gays, just get your rainbow shit off my facebook.
So last year he was looking to make it very hard to buy guns and there are all kinds of idiots calling to disarm us.
But, short sighted goals and this is what you get.





06-28-2015 06:45 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #26
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

It's an interesting point that I hadn't thought about before Six.

I think you're probably right that gun control will be a negative mark on Obama's legacy (though not likely an overshadowing one IMO). He seems to have pissed off the gun lovers, disappointed the moderates, and pissed off the gun haters.

I don't think Obama's Executive Orders and failed attempt to get universal background checks passed was more aggressive gun control policy than any other president though.

I remember reading a bit about gun control history in the U.S. back when you, F.U., Jimbone, Mags, MS and a few others of us were discussing/debating gun control after Sandy Hook.

FDR wanted to tax all guns and create a federal registry. Carter wanted to ban all semi-automatics and create a federal registry. Clinton banned some gun types for a decade, I think. Those policies strike me as more aggressive than Obama's.

During Obama's presidency, no guns or ammo have been restricted. And, the failed universal background check bill, supported by 90% of Americans, expressly stated on the first page that there would be no attempt or permission to create a national registry, under the law.

Anyway, gun policy is definitely a divisive issue for every president. Seems like it has been since at least the 50s. You seem to look very negatively on Obama for what he attempted to do in regards to gun control, and I look slightly negatively upon him for what he failed to do in regards to gun control (failing to get the UBC bill passed -- though I concede he faced obstacles largely outside his control).

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens in terms of gun policy changes under the next President's administration.





06-28-2015 08:19 PM
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blueberryhill Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

I don't know why gun supporters are upset; no one is trying to take their guns away, but the majority of people want more background checks, waiting period of a minimum of 48 hours, special permits to open/concealed carry (and why would most citizens need to do this?), more that a 1 hour lecture about gun safety. I know it varies from State to State, and that is a problem right there. I believe there should be universal laws re weapons. Too many innocent people are dying and that is the bottom line....No one is trying to take your hunting rifle away, your target practice gun, etc.....I believe that we should have a universal gun registry. Crimes have been solved by various natural registries to include guns....e.g., detectives from one state tracked the serial number of the gun to another state and eventually (it took several years) they found the killer.....I just want more of an effort to keep the guns out of the hands of domestic abusers, the psychos, crazies, haters, idiots, irresponsible, negligent, short fused nut jobs, etc.





06-28-2015 09:18 PM
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Jimbone Offline
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Post: #28
RE: OBAMA'S LEGACY

Interesting that no one mentioned the disastrous foreign policy Obama has presided over. That's going to be a major part of his legacy, and there isn't much to like.





06-28-2015 09:29 PM
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