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THE REBEL FLAG
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Jimbone Offline
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Post: #71
RE: THE REBEL FLAG

(06-23-2015 02:51 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  And then there was that whole "States Rights" thing too which is conveniently left out of EVERY conversation about the Civil War. SC even issued a "Declaration of Causes" along with their "Article of Secessession."

I think supporters of the flag and those who want it taken down should both protest.

It was definitely about 'States Rights' BG. But the main right they were fighting to keep was slavery. There is no real debate to that.

The election of Lincoln and his position on the abolition of slavery pushed the southern states to act. So they seceded from the Union, and the rest as they say is history.





06-23-2015 03:00 PM
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Maggot Offline
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RE: THE REBEL FLAG

The south was also supplying cotton to the northern factories. Other countries were buying raw cotton from the south so the north blockaded the ports. Much of the war was about money, sure slavery was part of the mix years before as abolitionists were prevalent in the north for many years.
Lincoln did not like slavery, he thought it was wrong but if keeping slavery meant preserving the union he would have done it. He wanted to ship them to Africa because he had no clue what to do with them after the war.
The south wanted their own country, they had the produce to sell and the money but it would have destroyed "the union"
That is what the war was about, that and money. Slavery was an incidental outcome that was used on a moral basis as justification to keep the south and their agricultural advantage over the north. They were beginning to sell to Spain, Great Britain, France and a host of other countries. It was money not morality that started the civil war. The north represented most of congress and placed tariffs on goods the south sold to foreign countries. The south thought that was wrong and seceded. Only the rich had slaves.

Slavery is certainly wrong and today there is something much worse. Human trafficking.






06-23-2015 03:01 PM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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Post: #73
RE: THE REBEL FLAG

(06-23-2015 03:01 PM)Maggot Wrote:  The south was also supplying cotton to the northern factories. Other countries were buying raw cotton from the south so the north blockaded the ports. Much of the war was about money, sure slavery was part of the mix years before as abolitionists were prevalent in the north for many years.
Lincoln did not like slavery, he thought it was wrong but if keeping slavery meant preserving the union he would have done it. He wanted to ship them to Africa because he had no clue what to do with them after the war.
The south wanted their own country, they had the produce to sell and the money but it would have destroyed "the union"
That is what the war was about, that and money. Slavery was an incidental outcome that was used on a moral basis as justification to keep the south and their agricultural advantage over the north. They were beginning to sell to Spain, Great Britain, France and a host of other countries. It was money not morality that started the civil war. The north represented most of congress and placed tariffs on goods the south sold to foreign countries. The south thought that was wrong and seceded. Only the rich had slaves.

Slavery is certainly wrong and today there is something much worse. Human trafficking.
States Rights Jimbone.





06-23-2015 03:05 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #74
RE: THE REBEL FLAG

I don't think everyone who displays the Confederate flag is a racist or a white supremist. Not at all.

But, I certainly don't disparage people of any color who view it as symbolic of those ideals because their perspective is not wrong either.

I too think that it's the state's call whether to fly or not to fly the flag at the State Capitol and those in office surely understand the views of those on both sides and know the history and South Carolina's leading role in it.

The decision will be made where it should be made, IMO.





06-23-2015 03:07 PM
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BlueTiki Offline
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Post: #75
RE: THE REBEL FLAG

Hahaha, user! Dress him in hoodie and turn him loose with a REPUBLIC of California flag!

Thanks, HotD . . . was always under the impression the South seceded due to Lincoln's vow of no NEW slave states.

And the fact they didn't like the rich mechanized North dictating to the economically challenged agrarian South.

Kinda like today's argument against the haves dictating to the have nots.

Didn't realize the slaves were freed prior to or during the Civil War.

Never knew they were fighting for something already taken from them.





06-23-2015 03:09 PM
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Maggot Offline
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Post: #76
RE: THE REBEL FLAG

Had slavery been phased out over time there would most likely be lots less racism. The overnight abolishment of slavery is what created the racism seen today. On setting the slaves free they became worse than they were before and targets by southerners that fell to the atrocities the northern soldiers performed on families in the south. The north was not kind. The south blamed it all on the blacks when it should have been blamed on the plantation owners.
Had the south not seceded it would have been very different today. The civil war was more likely created by the 10-12 richest businessmen in the south getting together and plotting the entire secession. Dumb fucks that cared more about the money than the country.






06-23-2015 03:15 PM
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Jimbone Offline
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Post: #77
RE: THE REBEL FLAG

(06-23-2015 03:05 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  States Rights Jimbone.

I know BG, I said above it was about States Rights. hah





06-23-2015 03:17 PM
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Duchess Away
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RE: THE REBEL FLAG



Old Southerners (some) hate Yankees. Only good manners prevents them from spitting at your feet.






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06-23-2015 03:17 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #79
RE: THE REBEL FLAG

You learn something new everyday Tiki.

I do at least.





06-23-2015 03:17 PM
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Jimbone Offline
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RE: THE REBEL FLAG

(06-23-2015 03:17 PM)Duchess Wrote:  

Old Southerners (some) hate Yankees. Only good manners prevents them from spitting at your feet.

When I lived in Texas in the late 90's, one of the women I worked with used to have me over for neighborhood gatherings and such. Cool family, I liked them a lot! She sort of adopted me in because I was far from my family I guess.

Every time she introduced me to someone new, it was "I want you to meet my friend Jim, he's a Yankee.".

Every. Single. Time.

I found it charming. But that's my white privilege showing hah I keed, I keed.





06-23-2015 03:22 PM
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BlueTiki Offline
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Post: #81
RE: THE REBEL FLAG

(06-23-2015 03:17 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  You learn something new everyday Tiki.

I do at least.

Thanks, doll!

I'm penning a nastygram to Ken Burns and Peter Coyote by COB!

Effin' history revisionists!





06-23-2015 03:23 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #82
RE: THE REBEL FLAG

(06-23-2015 02:51 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  And then there was that whole "States Rights" thing too which is conveniently left out of EVERY conversation about the Civil War. SC even issued a "Declaration of Causes" along with their "Article of Secessession."

I think supporters of the flag and those who want it taken down should both protest.

States' rights in regards to slavery, Gunnar.

It's been stated by a few of us and several times in this thread.

It neither been conveniently nor inconveniently left out of this discussion.

But, don't let that stop you from protesting that it's been left out.





06-23-2015 03:25 PM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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Post: #83
RE: THE REBEL FLAG

(06-23-2015 03:25 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  
(06-23-2015 02:51 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  And then there was that whole "States Rights" thing too which is conveniently left out of EVERY conversation about the Civil War. SC even issued a "Declaration of Causes" along with their "Article of Secessession."

I think supporters of the flag and those who want it taken down should both protest.

States' rights in regards to slavery, Gunnar.

It's been stated by a few of us and several times in this thread.

It neither been conveniently nor inconveniently left out of this discussion.

But, don't let that stop you from protesting that it's been left out.
No in regards to commerce. The North made it about slavery by blocking the ports unless the South abolished slavery HoTD. As maggs pointed out, had it been a phasing out as opposed to "slaves are free... Deal with it" attitude there wouldn't have been as much hostility. The North cut off the South's lifeline in order to impose the law.





06-23-2015 03:38 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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RE: THE REBEL FLAG

Do you not understand that what you just wrote, historically validated or not, confirms rather than disputes that the Civil War was in regards to slavery, Gunnar?

Rhetorical question.





06-23-2015 03:49 PM
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