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Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALBACH?
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALSBACH?

Why would you need to defend Gunnar, MS?

I'm not arguing with anyone's characterization of the Averys as bumpkins -- I've followed the case and seen them interviewed, and I've watched part of the series. I've already characterized them as unsophisticated and unintelligent myself. There's nothing for you to defend.

Anyway, one more time -- morons and bumpkins commit violent crimes at least as often as everyone else. They can also lie as effectively as everybody else.

The fact that Avery and clan are bumpkins, therefore, doesn't convince me that one or more of them could not be responsible for the death of Teresa Halsbach, as Gunnar inquired and insists. Difference of opinion.

Yes, so far, I've found the documentary compelling too.





01-13-2016 02:06 PM
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Midwest Spy Away
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Post: #30
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALSBACH?

(01-13-2016 01:51 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  http://www.brostrick.com/celebrity-news/...arb-avery/

I'm laughing here at work while reading the article and people are giving me weird looks.

They need to watch the damn show!





01-13-2016 02:11 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALSBACH?

(01-13-2016 01:33 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  And please... Feel free to comment ignorantly if you wish. When you've got it, flaunt it.

Newsflash Gunnar, members don't need your permission to post.

That's true whether they agree with you, or disagree with you, or don't have an opinion.

Please remember that this a crime forum discussion thread covering both the documentary and the case in general, as noted in my post to an0n upthread.

People who have followed the case and haven't seen the documentary are welcome to comment and reply, as are people who have seen the documentary without previously having followed the case.

P.s. you can stop flaunting it anytime; it's clear that you've got it in spades already.





01-13-2016 02:18 PM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALSBACH?

(01-13-2016 02:18 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  
(01-13-2016 01:33 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  And please... Feel free to comment ignorantly if you wish. When you've got it, flaunt it.

Newsflash Gunnar, members don't need your permission to post.

That's true whether they agree with you, or disagree with you, or don't have an opinion.

Please remember that this a crime forum discussion thread covering both the documentary and the case in general, as noted in my post to an0n upthread.

People who have followed the case and haven't seen the documentary are welcome to comment and reply, as are people who have seen the documentary without previously having followed the case.

P.s. you can stop flaunting it anytime; it's clear that you've got it in spades already.
Swing and a miss. Not only are you posting out of ignorance, you're posting up the dumb. You're blonde is showing HoTD.





01-13-2016 05:19 PM
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Donovan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALSBACH?

I must be one of only a handful of people who don't rave on that show. I watched four or five episodes with middling interest, but the whole thing struck me as an unnecessarily long episode of 48 hours. Too many people who love to hear themselves talk. So poor people get screwed by the system, and the law screws everybody. Not news, at least where I grew up.






Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
01-13-2016 05:53 PM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALSBACH?

(01-13-2016 05:19 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  
(01-13-2016 02:18 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  
(01-13-2016 01:33 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  And please... Feel free to comment ignorantly if you wish. When you've got it, flaunt it.

Newsflash Gunnar, members don't need your permission to post.

That's true whether they agree with you, or disagree with you, or don't have an opinion.

Please remember that this a crime forum discussion thread covering both the documentary and the case in general, as noted in my post to an0n upthread.

People who have followed the case and haven't seen the documentary are welcome to comment and reply, as are people who have seen the documentary without previously having followed the case.

P.s. you can stop flaunting it anytime; it's clear that you've got it in spades already.
Swing and a miss. Not only are you posting out of ignorance, you're posting up the dumb. You're blonde is showing HoTD.
She didn't take the bait. hah





01-13-2016 06:57 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALSBACH?

(01-13-2016 05:19 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  Swing and a miss. Not only are you posting out of ignorance, you're posting up the dumb. You're blonde is showing HoTD.

I'm deeply hurt.

My reminder stands. This thread is open to everyone who cares to comment on the case. It's not restricted to those who've watched any/all of the series.

And, there was no swing, Gunnar. You're imagining things again.





01-13-2016 07:19 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALSBACH?

Motion to Vacate Conviction Filed

Avery filed two motions Monday alleging violations of due process rights in his prosecution for the 2005 rape and murder of photographer Teresa Halbach, according to CNN affiliate WBAY.

The motion seeks a stay of enforcement of the judgment and release on bond. If the court decides to vacate Avery's conviction based on his claims, prosecutors would have to decide whether to retry him without the impermissible evidence.

Wisconsin prosecutors and law enforcement have accused the Making of a Murderer documentary directors of cherry-picking the evidence to cast it in a light favorable to Avery.

Prosecutors laid out their case: Halbach's Toyota RAV4 (which had blood in it, including Avery's) was found on the Avery family's lot. Tissue and bone fragments that matched Halbach's DNA profile were found outside Avery's mobile home. Avery's then-16-year-old nephew, Brendan Dassey, confessed to authorities that he had assisted his uncle in raping and killing her.


Full story: http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/12/entertainm...peal-feat/





01-13-2016 07:38 PM
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sharit Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALBACH?

Read the book Kiss the Girls. Brendens step Dad and older brother seem suspicious.





01-13-2016 10:40 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALBACH?

Hi Sharit, I've read that book and understand Massey claimed on the stand that he fabricated his confession using details from it. It's hard for me to imagine him reading that book, but it's possible. I believe the part about cutting the girl's hair was only in the movie, not the book. But, it's possible he saw the movie too.

If I understand correctly,

-Gunnar finds the ex-boyfriend and the brother suspicious; the former due to the Teresa's deleted voice mails.

-MS thinks Avery and Massey did it, based on the evidence (including that which was left out of the series), but acknowledges the LE was corrupt.

-Some viewers suspect the LE actually killed Teresa and coerced Massey in order to frame Avery and get out of a multi-million dollar payout for Avery's previous wrongful rape conviction.

-Teresa's family and LE claim that the series is very one-sided, leaves out damning evidence against Avery, and shouldn't be called a 'documentary' because it's more of an advocacy piece for Avery designed to manipulate the viewer.

I haven't seen anyone mention Massey's stepdad and older brother before. What do you find suspicious about them?

P.s. it's good to see you; hope all's well with you and your family.





01-14-2016 12:42 AM
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Cutz Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALBACH?

To HoTeeDee: Simple minded, slow people are definitely able of committing crime and lying about it.

To MS: Cops didn't need to murder her. They needed to find her car on the side of the road (maybe 2 days before and you radio it in?), and then pull off a whole lot of evidence planting, including burning the body, planting the key, planting the car, planting the DNA, and setting up the ex bf to send searchers onto the property. Elaborate but not impossible. Did the other county have to be in on it? Certainly a lot of questions as to how far the conspiracy had to go. But not murder. And creepy guys are creepy to young women all the time. You'll find out why he'd call her in a few years when your wife leaves you and you're "that guy" at the bar trying to pick up girls half your age.

In general: I don't care if he murdered her or not. You don't get to circumvent laws and plant evidence on guilty people any more than innocent. The vial of his blood had cut security tape and a needle hole in the top. I think the police did that, and I'd throw out all evidence and let him walk. Even if I was certain he did it, I let him walk. Otherwise you're telling LE that it's open season on anything they want to do. This /is/ the same area where the guy was wrongfully convicted in the past.





01-14-2016 09:32 AM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALBACH?

(01-14-2016 09:32 AM)Cutz Wrote:  To HoTeeDee: Simple minded, slow people are definitely able of committing crime and lying about it.

To MS: Cops didn't need to murder her. They needed to find her car on the side of the road (maybe 2 days before and you radio it in?), and then pull off a whole lot of evidence planting, including burning the body, planting the key, planting the car, planting the DNA, and setting up the ex bf to send searchers onto the property. Elaborate but not impossible. Did the other county have to be in on it? Certainly a lot of questions as to how far the conspiracy had to go. But not murder. And creepy guys are creepy to young women all the time. You'll find out why he'd call her in a few years when your wife leaves you and you're "that guy" at the bar trying to pick up girls half your age.

In general: I don't care if he murdered her or not. You don't get to circumvent laws and plant evidence on guilty people any more than innocent. The vial of his blood had cut security tape and a needle hole in the top. I think the police did that, and I'd throw out all evidence and let him walk. Even if I was certain he did it, I let him walk. Otherwise you're telling LE that it's open season on anything they want to do. This /is/ the same area where the guy was wrongfully convicted in the past.
*flaunts his ignorance* My sentiments exactly. There's no question LE tampered with the evidence in this case and coerced a confession from the slow kid. They picked the low hanging fruit.





01-14-2016 10:48 AM
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Midwest Spy Away
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Post: #41
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALBACH?

Cutz, all of your points make some sense except for: A) the cops burning the body? So, they either brought her on to the Avery property and burned her while no one watched, or, you're suggesting, they burned her elsewhere and transported her remains back to Avery's? That's a tough one for me to buy. And B) me, creepy? I'm still too handsome to be considered creepy, and I prefer women at least 40.





01-14-2016 10:53 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Making a Murderer -- DID STEVEN AVERY REALLY KILL TERESA HALBACH?

(01-14-2016 09:32 AM)Cutz Wrote:  To HoTeeDee: Simple minded, slow people are definitely able of committing crime and lying about it.

In general: I don't care if he murdered her or not. You don't get to circumvent laws and plant evidence on guilty people any more than innocent. The vial of his blood had cut security tape and a needle hole in the top. I think the police did that, and I'd throw out all evidence and let him walk. Even if I was certain he did it, I let him walk. Otherwise you're telling LE that it's open season on anything they want to do. This /is/ the same area where the guy was wrongfully convicted in the past.

That's right, Cutzarug. I agree.

The argument that a person 'isn't smart enough to commit a violent horrible crime and get caught' doesn't hold water, logically or historically. It happens everyday. Sometimes they get caught quickly, sometimes they get away with it for a long time, and there are probably more than I'd care to know about who will never be caught.

Likewise, I think there are probably a good number of simple-minded people of little means who also didn't commit crimes for which they've been convicted, due to LE/jury human error or tunnel vision/corruption.

In the Teresa Halbach murder case specifically, it's equally possible to me that the asshole LEOs (who should never have been on the case due to conflict of interest) at least planted Teresa's key in Avery's room and led or coerced a confessional narrative out of Dassey in order to bolster their case against Avery. None of which, as you noted, is okay. It's not okay whether Avery and/or Dassey killed Teresa or not. Just like it's not okay to me when cops shoot people to death and then create a false narrative as to how it went down; the false narrative puts the LEO's justification of the shooting incident itself under legitimate suspicion.

Anyway, I've watched most of the Making a Murderer series now. So far, I'm not convinced that Steven Avery was framed for a murder he did not commit and I probably would have voted guilty had I been on the jury, given what I consider the very strong circumstantial evidence against Avery and the prosecution's trial case.

But, I agree with Gunnar and others that the key was very likely planted and that the interrogation of Dassey was improper (at the least). I think the series did a good job exposing such corruption and questionable tactics, which is its greatest value. I hope both men get new trials; maybe Kathleen Zellner can make it happen.

I do care who killed Teresa Halbach, and based on the pile of circumstantial evidence alone, Steven Avery remains a suspect for me. I think he should be retried if the prosecutors feel they have a strong enough case after the questionable evidence (likely including Dassey's confession) is tossed. Avery would undoubtedly have top notch representation if he gets a retrial, pro bono I imagine. And, if a case can be made that some of the LEOs and prosecutors willfully engaged in misconduct or criminal activity, they should be charged or otherwise held accountable.

I think Dassey should definitely be re-interviewed, with counsel present; I'd personally have less a problem with him simply being set free rather than re-tried if it's evident that his confession was not only directed to match an LE narrative, but was also most likely entirely false.





01-14-2016 11:11 AM
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