(22-Jul-2018) NOTICE: Mockforums.net has been upgraded. Please post any issues/queries. Thank you!


Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND
#1
Water -- more powerful than women even. Can't live without it, can't live without it.

It makes us wet, quenches our thirsts, cleanses the filthiest among us, affords us food, and in its freshest non-salty form, allows our bodies to carry their own weight and live another day. Oh the water, oh the water....





We don't have enough of it here in the Golden State. Those of us who don't have our heads up our asses know it's a precious commodity. From Mo's view within the Forgotten Land, he too knows -- denying its value is a loser's position.
Reply
#2
So, this short-sighted, penny-pinching, political bullshit truly pisses me off, which doesn't happen too often. Flint, Michigan.

President Obama declared the ongoing water-supply crisis in Flint, Michigan, a federal emergency on Saturday, opening up FEMA support and federal funding to help tackle the city’s lack of access to clean and safe drinking water.

The move follows more than a year of controversy after the city, under the direction of a state-appointed manager intent on saving money, temporarily switched its water supply to the Flint River.

[Image: water6n-2-web.jpg?itok=ao2eJXeT]

Despite ongoing complaints, the residents were told to "drink up", no worries. Would you let your kids drink or bathe in that shit?

The water has been found to contain harmful chemicals, bacteria, and, most dangerously, lead. The lead contamination was a result of the water not being treated well enough to prevent the corrosion of lead pipes and fixtures, which in turn led to the toxic element leaching into the water supply. Children are most at risk from the health issues resulting from lead consumption, and more than 8,600 under the age of 6 live in Flint.
Reply
#3
Don't like Michael Moore? Think he's too liberal?

[Image: 19563230-large.jpg]
Well, suck it up and be grateful that Moore ^ just happens to be a native of Flint and he's putting the national spotlight on the situation.

[Image: 467683_G.jpg]
^ Governor Rick Snyder. 86

Story: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/201...upply.html

Soapbox
Reply
#4
(01-17-2016, 10:17 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: We don't have enough of it here in the Golden State. Those of us who don't have our heads up our asses know it's a precious commodity. From Mo's view within the Forgotten Land, he too knows -- denying its value is a loser's position.

The guy who shorted the housing market before the collapse is currently invested in water rights, far as I know.

In California, farmers use water to grow Almonds. One almond requires 1 gallon of water. 99% of the US almonds come from California.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2...ater-going

Saudi Arabia's largest dairy has 15 sq miles of Arizona desert to grow hay. They planted thousands of acres of alfalfa. Such plants can't grow in Saudi Arabia anymore because of a drained aquifer.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015...roundwater
Reply
#5
Yeah, it's a real and complex issue which spans the globe, Cutz. I think those investing in water rights are savvy and a lot more focus needs to go into water management and distribution.

What bothers me so much about the situation in Flint specifically, aside from *gasp* the risk to the health and safety of the masses, is the shortsightedness and fucked-up priorities of the state government.

I understand wanting to switch to a cheaper water source for budgetary reasons. They're fortunate to have such water supply options there. But, the failure on the part of the administrators to ensure that the water was treated sufficiently for public consumption is some seriously negligent bullshit. The improperly treated water from the Flint River corroded the delivery pipes to the extent that any water passing through them is now toxic.

So, to save some (tax payer contributed) money, thousands of people's health was put at risk by their local government and now the federal government will have to spend way more (tax payer contributed) money to try and fix the easily foreseeable and avoidable problem. On the plus side, if there is one, the investment in new infrastructure was probably long overdue anyway.
Reply
#6
You said and beyond.
Reply
#7
I did say that. And, I meant it.

Your points and links about water usage and water/crop ROI were good examples of how consumable water is a valuable and, in my opinon, often wasted and taken for granted commodity. I hope anybody else who's interested weighs in on the broad water topic too.

I've still got a bone to pick about how haphazardly the Flint situation was handled and the public health risk it presents. It's such bullshit and I really hope it's not allowed to happen in other cities. It should be a huge lesson learned.

Here's a top level timeline of key events, the complaints, the denials, the costs and the consequences. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/t...n-36331514
Reply
#8
So, who exactly tested the water and said it was safe? In the Jan, '15 timetable?
Reply
#9


I take water for granted and about the only time I give it any thought is when the pipes have frozen or I've lost electricity and the pump doesn't work. I don't depend on a city or town for water, I have wells.

I'd bet my ass that whoever made the decisions in Flint would never give their loved ones a glass of that water. It's disgusting and good for nothing but flushing toilets.
[Image: Zy3rKpW.png]
Reply
#10
(01-19-2016, 01:47 AM)Cutz Wrote: So, who exactly tested the water and said it was safe? In the Jan, '15 timetable?

I've read a lot of news pieces and it's not clear to me exactly who facilitated the tests. "The city of Flint" is cited in some pieces, along with the state EPA and the state Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ), both of which put out public announcements attesting to the safety of the water early on, but later advised against certain people drinking it and offering filter and boiling instructions.

A group of Virginia Tech professors and students have done what appears to me to be the most valid testing. The results are really disturbing. www.flintwaterstudy.org
Reply
#11
EPA Regional Administration Resigns

The Environmental Protection Agency's regional administrator for Flint, Michigan, has resigned, the agency said in a statement Thursday.

[Image: 51e9b21c7a877.preview-620.jpg]
"EPA Region 5 Administrator Susan Hedman ^ has offered her resignation effective February 1, and EPA Administrator Gina McCarthy has accepted given Susan's strong interest in ensuring that EPA Region 5's focus remains solely on the restoration of Flint's drinking water," the agency said.

In late June, then-Flint Mayor Dayne Walling wrote to Hedman, seeking information about the issue of lead in Flint's drinking water. She essentially shot him down in her response. (Walling got his ass kicked and lost re-election in the face of the water crisis.)

"The preliminary draft report should not have been released outside the agency. When the report has been revised and fully vetted by EPA management, the findings and recommendations will be shared with the City and MDEQ (Michigan Department of Environmental Quality) -- and MDEQ will be responsible for following up with the City," Hedman wrote.

She had also fallen under fire for allegedly retaliating against EPA employees involved in investigating sexual harassment cases.


Full story: http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/health/fli...er-crisis/
---------------------------

A lot of people are calling for Governor Snyder to step down too. He was in charge of the emergency city managers for Flint when the water source change and complaints started rolling in.

Famed environmental activist Erin Brokovich told CNN the city's emergency manager and the governor should be held responsible.

"We gave them a protocol a year ago as well on exactly how to avoid this disaster, and they did not want to listen," she said.
Reply
#12
The Cost of Government Negligence

Gov. Rick Snyder made it official Friday, signing a bill for $28 million to provide funding to cope with ramifications of tainted water, damaged pipes and health problems for those who drank from the tap before authorities finally sounded the alarm.

“We don’t walk away if something doesn’t go right,” Snyder said moments before putting pen-to-paper. “Let’s stand up together as Michiganders to say mistakes were made, problems happened, we’re going to solve them, we’re going to fix them, and we’re going to (be) stronger.”

No one thinks this money this will solve all of Flint’s problems. Not given the uncertainty of the health impacts of what’s happened so far — Snyder said at least 45 Flint children had tested with high levels of lead in their blood, while acknowledging many more likely suffered the same fate. Severe brain damage is one of the impacts.

There will be steep costs to to fix a water supply infrastructure in Flint that has been damaged significantly, perhaps beyond repair.

Synder acknowledged as much in a letter earlier this month to President Barack Obama, estimating it would cost $767,419,500 to replace Flint’s water system. And, it's been reported that it could take up to 15 years to replace the corroded pipes.

Obama announced $80 million in new funding a week ago to help Michigan improve its water infrastructure. And on Thursday, U.S. senators from Michigan, Debbie Stabenow and Gary Peters, plus Rep. Dan Kildee announced proposed legislation to provide up to $400 million in federal funding to go towards resolving the issue in Flint, plus $200 million to address health issues of children and adults exposed to lead.

There’s no guarantee Congress will OK this money. Sen. John Cornyn of Texas, the No. 2 Senate Republican, raised doubts that it would happen, saying Flint’s crisis “is primarily a local and state responsibility.”

Snyder, himself a Republican, said that it would be irresponsible not to act. “This is a hidden problem that we’ve ignored not just in Flint, not just in Michigan, but nationally far too long,” he said. “So let’s do something about it.”


http://fox6now.com/2016/01/31/flint-wate...-michigan/
Reply
#13
In the meantime, these guys deserve props.

[Image: FlintPlumbers.jpg]

More than 300 union plumbers from all over Michigan flooded Flint to install free filters for residents, this past weekend.

Not all the faucets in Flint can fit a filter, which each resident of the city desperately needs in order to get rid of lead in their drinking water. Some of the faucets are older and oddly shaped, making the installation of a filter nearly impossible.

Local plumbers with United Association Local 370 in Flint have been going door-to-door making sure that faucets are filter ready since October, reports Michigan Radio. And last weekend, they got a boost from hundreds of union volunteers.

Upon the small army of plumbers’ arrival on Saturday, they got a moving welcome from Local 370 official Harold Harrington.

"We did not cause this American tragedy in Flint," Harrington told the crowd. "But we certainly can help correct the damage that has been done!"

On Saturday alone, plumbers replaced faucets and filters in 800 homes. Plumbing Manufacturers International donated the faucets, which cost about $100 a pop, which is a price tag many residents of Flint cannot afford.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/300-...b96203ce9e
Reply
#14
I've only paid attention to this water crisis in a very lazy manner. Right now Hillary & Bernie are talking about it and it's just awful. They are calling for the Gov to resign or be recalled as well as every person who was aware of what was going down. They are agreeing with each other points and are acting dignified unlike those filthy Republicans.
[Image: Zy3rKpW.png]
Reply
#15
I have to break this up a little.

(01-18-2016, 08:51 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Yeah, it's a real and complex issue which spans the globe, Cutz.
Clean water is not complex.

Quote:What bothers me so much about the situation in Flint specifically, is the shortsightedness and fucked-up priorities of the state government.
I wouldn't choose the word "shortsighted". Criminal is the word I would use.

Quote:I understand wanting to switch to a cheaper water source for budgetary reasons.
I don't.

Quote:They're fortunate to have such water supply options there.
I don't see it this way.
I don't see fortune anywhere in this situation.
I see a clean water source, and then a dirty one. Use the clean one. Don't use the dirty one and then say they are fortunate to have that option.


Quote:But, the failure on the part of the administrators to ensure that the water was treated sufficiently for public consumption is some seriously negligent bullshit.

Again, criminal is the word I would use.

Quote:The improperly treated water from the Flint River corroded the delivery pipes to the extent that any water passing through them is now toxic.

The dirty river should have never been used.

Quote:So, to save some (tax payer contributed) money, thousands of people's health was put at risk by their local government and now the federal government will have to spend way more (tax payer contributed) money to try and fix the easily foreseeable and avoidable problem.
It was the state government.

The state took over the city's budget and decided to temporarily switch Flint's water source from Lake Huron to the Flint River to save money until a new supply line to Lake Huron was ready.


And this is not a money issue anymore. This is a public health issue and a criminal issue on the part of the state. No amount of money is too little for everyone here in the US to have clean water. And then no amount of money is too small for everyone in the world to have clean water.

Quote:On the plus side, if there is one, the investment in new infrastructure was probably long overdue anyway.

There is no plus side to the crime which caused disease such as legionnaires or death.

And finally I am going to ask the question-how many cities and states in the US could get away with something such as this? Could this happen in your state? Why or why not?
Reply
#16
^ I understand that you see some/all of it differently Love Child; no problem. I've responded to your points and inquiries in the same order as your breakdown.

I agree that clean water in itself isn’t complex and wouldn’t suggest otherwise. I instead suggested that to equitably manage the distribution of water across across the country and the globe - in the face of expanding droughts, corroded infrastructures, and farmers who make a living on water-intensive crops – will be very complex.

I consider locales that have water available from multiple sources to be fortunate (which doesn't imply that the water and delivery system from any chosen source shouldn't be properly tested and managed for safe consumption, of course). Many locales around the world are facing serious droughts and shortages with no existing potential alternatives.
Reply
#17
In regards to your points and inquires regarding present-day Flint, Michigan specifically, Love Child...

Shortsightedness on the part of the city council, the former mayor, the state-appointed emergency manager, the governor...definitely contributed to the toxic water crisis.

The actions of some/all of those responsible for the decision to switch to a new temporary water supply to save money -- without ensuring that the DEQ and EPA testing, treatment processes, and checkpoints were in place before the newly-sourced water was delivered through the existing lead pipe infrastructure -- may well have been criminal in addition to shortsighted. There may also have been crimes associated with a cover-up after-the-fact. If crimes of intent or negligence are found to have been committed, I hope the offenders are held accountable under the law.

While I find it very sad and shameful that it took a terrible public health crisis like Flint’s to put them there, I see it as a plus that the nationwide issues of corroded lead pipe infrastructure and potential/existing water toxicity have finally been pushed into the national public spotlight. Old lead piping is used to deliver water for human consumption all over this country and it's been a concern that's gone largely unaddressed by the powers that be for many years.

Water from rivers can be sufficiently tested, treated and verified as safe for public consumption. But, if it’s not also properly treated and tested for anti-corrosion in order to travel within the specific lead pipe infrastructure (as was the case in Flint), yes, I think what happened there could happen in any U.S. city with similar infrastructure - especially if the decision-makers overlook or disregard public safety and regulatory bodies don’t do their jobs.
Reply
#18
I think it's past time for government at all levels to prioritize, plan, and invest in new water delivery infrastructure.

It's a matter of public health and safety. While it will undoubtedly be very expensive, it needs to be done and I think it will only become more expensive and put more people at risk as the lead pipes get older and further corrode.

If qualified people can be hired in the local communities to carry out the infrastructure upgrades efficiently and new jobs are created, that's great. That's what both Hillary and Bernie promised if they're elected president in the debate Sunday night.

Both Hillary and Bernie also committed to launching a criminal investigation into Flint's water scandal if elected president.
Reply
#19
It's odd the current administration hasn't launched a criminal investigation into the problem.

I wonder why?
Reply
#20
(03-08-2016, 09:36 AM)BlueTiki Wrote: It's odd the current administration hasn't launched a criminal investigation into the problem.

I wonder why?

There are criminal investigations underway at the Federal and State levels, Tiki, as I understand it.

Snip:
The U.S. Attorney’s Office in Detroit said almost a month ago it was working on an investigation of the man-made disaster, but it wouldn’t say whether that inquiry was criminal or civil. It now appears the answer is criminal, as officials told the Detroit Free Press the team includes the FBI, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service, and the EPA’s Office of Inspector General Criminal.

Who Poisoned Flint? The obvious, and unanswered, question now is who might be prosecuted and for what crimes. There’s plenty of blame to go around: City and state officials knew about problems with the water for months before taking action, downplaying the risks or simply saying they were someone else’s problem. The director of the state Department of Environmental Quality has been fired. EPA also failed to stop the disaster, saying it was the state’s responsibility; the regional director for the agency has resigned in the wake of that revelation.

The federal task force isn’t the only group investigating Flint. Governor Rick Snyder has appointed a task force, and state Attorney General Bill Schuette has also launched an investigation. The U.S. House Oversight Committee is holding hearings as well.


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...bi/459549/
Reply