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DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND
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Love Child Offline
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Post: #15
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

I have to break this up a little.

(01-18-2016 08:51 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  Yeah, it's a real and complex issue which spans the globe, Cutz.
Clean water is not complex.

Quote:What bothers me so much about the situation in Flint specifically, is the shortsightedness and fucked-up priorities of the state government.
I wouldn't choose the word "shortsighted". Criminal is the word I would use.

Quote:I understand wanting to switch to a cheaper water source for budgetary reasons.
I don't.

Quote:They're fortunate to have such water supply options there.
I don't see it this way.
I don't see fortune anywhere in this situation.
I see a clean water source, and then a dirty one. Use the clean one. Don't use the dirty one and then say they are fortunate to have that option.


Quote:But, the failure on the part of the administrators to ensure that the water was treated sufficiently for public consumption is some seriously negligent bullshit.

Again, criminal is the word I would use.

Quote:The improperly treated water from the Flint River corroded the delivery pipes to the extent that any water passing through them is now toxic.

The dirty river should have never been used.

Quote:So, to save some (tax payer contributed) money, thousands of people's health was put at risk by their local government and now the federal government will have to spend way more (tax payer contributed) money to try and fix the easily foreseeable and avoidable problem.
It was the state government.

The state took over the city's budget and decided to temporarily switch Flint's water source from Lake Huron to the Flint River to save money until a new supply line to Lake Huron was ready.


And this is not a money issue anymore. This is a public health issue and a criminal issue on the part of the state. No amount of money is too little for everyone here in the US to have clean water. And then no amount of money is too small for everyone in the world to have clean water.

Quote:On the plus side, if there is one, the investment in new infrastructure was probably long overdue anyway.

There is no plus side to the crime which caused disease such as legionnaires or death.

And finally I am going to ask the question-how many cities and states in the US could get away with something such as this? Could this happen in your state? Why or why not?





03-08-2016 02:49 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #16
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

^ I understand that you see some/all of it differently Love Child; no problem. I've responded to your points and inquiries in the same order as your breakdown.

I agree that clean water in itself isn’t complex and wouldn’t suggest otherwise. I instead suggested that to equitably manage the distribution of water across across the country and the globe - in the face of expanding droughts, corroded infrastructures, and farmers who make a living on water-intensive crops – will be very complex.

I consider locales that have water available from multiple sources to be fortunate (which doesn't imply that the water and delivery system from any chosen source shouldn't be properly tested and managed for safe consumption, of course). Many locales around the world are facing serious droughts and shortages with no existing potential alternatives.





03-08-2016 08:31 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #17
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

In regards to your points and inquires regarding present-day Flint, Michigan specifically, Love Child...

Shortsightedness on the part of the city council, the former mayor, the state-appointed emergency manager, the governor...definitely contributed to the toxic water crisis.

The actions of some/all of those responsible for the decision to switch to a new temporary water supply to save money -- without ensuring that the DEQ and EPA testing, treatment processes, and checkpoints were in place before the newly-sourced water was delivered through the existing lead pipe infrastructure -- may well have been criminal in addition to shortsighted. There may also have been crimes associated with a cover-up after-the-fact. If crimes of intent or negligence are found to have been committed, I hope the offenders are held accountable under the law.

While I find it very sad and shameful that it took a terrible public health crisis like Flint’s to put them there, I see it as a plus that the nationwide issues of corroded lead pipe infrastructure and potential/existing water toxicity have finally been pushed into the national public spotlight. Old lead piping is used to deliver water for human consumption all over this country and it's been a concern that's gone largely unaddressed by the powers that be for many years.

Water from rivers can be sufficiently tested, treated and verified as safe for public consumption. But, if it’s not also properly treated and tested for anti-corrosion in order to travel within the specific lead pipe infrastructure (as was the case in Flint), yes, I think what happened there could happen in any U.S. city with similar infrastructure - especially if the decision-makers overlook or disregard public safety and regulatory bodies don’t do their jobs.





03-08-2016 08:32 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #18
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

I think it's past time for government at all levels to prioritize, plan, and invest in new water delivery infrastructure.

It's a matter of public health and safety. While it will undoubtedly be very expensive, it needs to be done and I think it will only become more expensive and put more people at risk as the lead pipes get older and further corrode.

If qualified people can be hired in the local communities to carry out the infrastructure upgrades efficiently and new jobs are created, that's great. That's what both Hillary and Bernie promised if they're elected president in the debate Sunday night.

Both Hillary and Bernie also committed to launching a criminal investigation into Flint's water scandal if elected president.





03-08-2016 08:37 AM
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BlueTiki Offline
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Post: #19
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

It's odd the current administration hasn't launched a criminal investigation into the problem.

I wonder why?





03-08-2016 09:36 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

(03-08-2016 09:36 AM)BlueTiki Wrote:  It's odd the current administration hasn't launched a criminal investigation into the problem.

I wonder why?

There are criminal investigations underway at the Federal and State levels, Tiki, as I understand it.

Snip:
The U.S. Attorney’s Office in Detroit said almost a month ago it was working on an investigation of the man-made disaster, but it wouldn’t say whether that inquiry was criminal or civil. It now appears the answer is criminal, as officials told the Detroit Free Press the team includes the FBI, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service, and the EPA’s Office of Inspector General Criminal.

Who Poisoned Flint? The obvious, and unanswered, question now is who might be prosecuted and for what crimes. There’s plenty of blame to go around: City and state officials knew about problems with the water for months before taking action, downplaying the risks or simply saying they were someone else’s problem. The director of the state Department of Environmental Quality has been fired. EPA also failed to stop the disaster, saying it was the state’s responsibility; the regional director for the agency has resigned in the wake of that revelation.

The federal task force isn’t the only group investigating Flint. Governor Rick Snyder has appointed a task force, and state Attorney General Bill Schuette has also launched an investigation. The U.S. House Oversight Committee is holding hearings as well.


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...bi/459549/





03-08-2016 10:34 AM
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BlueTiki Offline
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Post: #21
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

Maybe someone should inform Hill and Bern about this revelation!





03-08-2016 11:00 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #22
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

(03-08-2016 11:00 AM)BlueTiki Wrote:  Maybe someone should inform Hill and Bern about this revelation!

Hey, neither are spring chickens and the memory is the first....how does that go again? Smiley_emoticons_smile

Seriously, I think they're both probably aware but the Feds haven't directly publicly confirmed 'criminal' investigation, as far as I know.

Both candidates spent time in Flint last month and this month. They were asked at the debate by an audience participant how they would have handled Flint if the water crisis had happened during their presidency and what they would do to prevent it from happening again.

They both focused on their ideas to fix current and future crises first, and then both said they'd launch criminal investigations and hold the responsible parties legally accountable. They'd earlier agreed that Governor Synder should resign.

^ my paraphrasing.





03-08-2016 11:10 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #23
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

Also, along with not being able to drink, bathe or cook with water that's not bottled or home-filtered, Flint residents' water bills increased significantly after the crisis began. That's such an unbelievable slap in the face and total bullshit, in my opinion.





03-08-2016 11:49 AM
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BlueTiki Offline
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Post: #24
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

I'm surprised the sale of A123, to the Chinese, hasn't received more attention in Michigan.

Built with substantial taxpayer funds and never reviewed by State, it is a contrast to her criticism of Bush allowing the Chinese to purchase a sub of GM.

But then, the Clinton Foundation allegedly receives significant funding from Chinese businessmen.





03-08-2016 12:13 PM
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Maggot Offline
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Post: #25
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

Whatever happened to the one responsible at the EPA for dumping mine sludge into the river turning it gold?






03-08-2016 12:17 PM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

(03-08-2016 12:17 PM)Maggot Wrote:  Whatever happened to the one responsible at the EPA for dumping mine sludge into the river turning it gold?
Nothing happened to any specific person but the EPA did claim responsibility and I believe the state of NM and the Navajo nation is suing.





03-08-2016 12:35 PM
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Love Child Offline
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Post: #27
RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

(03-08-2016 11:49 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  Also, along with not being able to drink, bathe or cook with water that's not bottled or home-filtered, Flint residents' water bills increased significantly after the crisis began. That's such an unbelievable slap in the face and total bullshit, in my opinion.

Not only that, but what if people want to move away from this crisis? How are they going to sell their home? They can't.

It appears GM had an issue with the water:

An article in Huffington Post by Michael Moore titled "10 things they won't tell you about the Flint water tragedy. But I will.

The first one is this:

A few months after Gov. Snyder removed Flint from the clean fresh water we had been drinking for decades, the brass from General Motors went to him and complained that the Flint River water was causing their car parts to corrode when being washed on the assembly line. The governor was appalled to hear that GM property was being damaged, so he jumped through a number of hoops and quietly spent $440,000 to hook GM back up to the Lake Huron water, while keeping the rest of Flint on the Flint River water.

Which means that while the children in Flint were drinking lead-filled water, there was one -- and only one -- address in Flint that got clean water: the GM factory.



I would like to find out if that is true.

Dispicable.





03-08-2016 03:06 PM
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BlueTiki Offline
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RE: DON'T DRINK THE WATER -- FLINT, MICHIGAN & BEYOND

Water supply was part of the Fed's GM bailout.

Flint will be reimbursed! hah





03-08-2016 03:17 PM
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