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I HAVE QUESTIONS
#1


Do you feel that immigrants have taken a job that you, or someone close to you, wanted?

Have immigrants settled into your community to the point that you feel unsafe or feel your property has been devalued?

If you saw someone who is clearly Muslim being beaten or terrorized by a group of what you assume to be Americans, would you call 911?

Do you have a mosque in your 'hood?
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#2
No
No
yes
no and I hope it stays that way.
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#3
I don't like bullies and I know what it feels like to get jumped by a group of assholes. I'd jump in to save the guy, and probably get my ass kicked. But I've been lucky so far in those situations.

I don't have a problem with mosques any more or less than having churches in the neighborhood, and for most immigrants lost in a strange culture they provide comfort.
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
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#4
It's not so much the jobs they "take" as it is the public services, much of it paid with tax dollars, that is 'taken' (as many immigrants are paid cash/under the table and don't always contribute to the tax base).
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#5
I have never in my lifetime been denied a service or good because an illegal immigrant took the last of it right before I got there. And neither have you. Therefore, to begrudge another living person a decent meal or doctor visit or driving licence simply because he wasn't lucky enough to catch some of the breaks you did is needlessly selfish.
I've also never had my taxes raised to pay for undocumented workers. I have, however, had my taxes raised to pay for bailouts on multibillion dollar banks and auto dealers, and to pay for stadiums owned by billionaires. So who exactly is the drain on resources?
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
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#6
(06-25-2016, 12:53 PM)Donovan Wrote: I have never in my lifetime been denied a service or good because an illegal immigrant took the last of it right before I got there. And neither have you. Therefore, to begrudge another living person a decent meal or doctor visit or driving licence simply because he wasn't lucky enough to catch some of the breaks you did is needlessly selfish.
I've also never had my taxes raised to pay for undocumented workers. I have, however, had my taxes raised to pay for bailouts on multibillion dollar banks and auto dealers, and to pay for stadiums owned by billionaires. So who exactly is the drain on resources?

I was presenting a counterpoint to the above argument.
Would you agree though- just because an event has not happened for you doesn't discount it may have happened to others?

I do agree with your argument regarding corporate bailouts- on a multi-billion dollar scale- it is tragically wrong.

On a related note within this discussion, are you for an open and free border? If so, I'd enjoy reading your take on how that would be beneficial to you.
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#7
I do not believe in all or nothing scenarios with regard to borders or health care for all. Bernie Sanders' utopian vision of free shit for everybody is unworkable and would be impossible to sustain with any sort of quality. Profit is a huge motive to drive a competitive market and is the reason we have so many innovative products in this country including the thing I'm typing on.
However, I disagree with the concept that allowing my neighbor to try to attain success in any way lessens my own. Especially at the subsistence level we are talking about with illegals. To deny my fellow human being for the sake of money lessens me as a person.
As for open borders: I live an hour from one of the biggest urban borders with Canada we share, a border that once was easy to cross with no more than a driver's licence but not fully unrestricted. I was once turned away from entering Canada because I had a target pistol in the car. The tightening of those borders in recent years only served to stifle common business and tourism interests, utterly destroyed the American side of Niagara Falls as a destination, and did absolutely nothing to lessen crime in my own country.

I understand the Mexican border is a different animal. I lived there. But I also understand that the tight border restrictions there have ALSO done nothing to curb crime in either country. Point of fact the legalization of marijuana has done more to destroy Mexican crime than any wall could do.

The reality is that by and large, every group of immigrants our country has accepted has ultimately made us stronger, not weaker, as a nation. They are not our enemies. The ones at the other end of the financial spectrum are.
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
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#8
^
Thanks.
Food for thought.
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#9
(06-25-2016, 12:53 PM)Donovan Wrote: I have, however, had my taxes raised to pay for bailouts on multibillion dollar banks and auto dealers, and to pay for stadiums owned by billionaires. So who exactly is the drain on resources?

So somewhat of a similar reason for leaving the EU? People who want to gain their independence from a controlled economy cartel designed for the elite global banking industry and not the interest of the people?
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#10
I don't have problems with immigrants except that sometimes they walk in the food aisles and pay no attention to anyone else. I go one way to go around them and they go the same way then I try the other way and they move there till finally I either say "get the hell outta the way" or "do you want to dance?"
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
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#11
Do you feel that immigrants have taken a job that you, or someone close to you, wanted? No. I reflect fondly on my berry picking days as a kid. And we collected cans and newspapers, this was my allowance. I often wonder if these practices have gone away, and not because of immigrants. It was something that had value to me growing up. I feel some believe it is beneath them to do certain jobs. But I don't have a problem paying someone who does a job.

Have immigrants settled into your community to the point that you feel unsafe or feel your property has been devalued? Nope. I often feel a stronger sense of community in some culture diverse areas.

If you saw someone who is clearly Muslim being beaten or terrorized by a group of what you assume to be Americans, would you call 911? Yes. I would call 911 for anyone being beaten. Not sure how I would see someone being "terrorized".

Do you have a mosque in your 'hood? Not where I am currently. There are many mosques and churches of varying religions in Seattle and the surrounding areas.
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#12
(06-25-2016, 05:57 PM)sally Wrote:
(06-25-2016, 12:53 PM)Donovan Wrote: I have, however, had my taxes raised to pay for bailouts on multibillion dollar banks and auto dealers, and to pay for stadiums owned by billionaires. So who exactly is the drain on resources?

So somewhat of a similar reason for leaving the EU? People who want to gain their independence from a controlled economy cartel designed for the elite global banking industry and not the interest of the people?

Considering the United Kingdom is a monarchy and practically invented the concept of a controlled cartel economy designed for the elite, I'd hardly say it's an improvement.
Thank god I am oblivious to the opinions of others while caught in the blinding splendor of my own cleverness.
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#13
Do you feel that immigrants have taken a job that you, or someone close to you, wanted?
No, but dozens of people under my management umbrella (at two different software development companies) lost program management and customer service jobs when the companies outsourced those positions to India and China.

Have immigrants settled into your community to the point that you feel unsafe or feel your property has been devalued?
My city is something like 40 percent white, 20 percent Asian, and 40 percent a combination of people from a variety of racial and ethnic backgrounds.

I don't feel unsafe and believe the diversity contributes to the high property value here.

If you saw someone who is clearly Muslim being beaten or terrorized by a group of what you assume to be Americans, would you call 911?
I'd have to hold myself from personally intervening, regardless as to whether the beat down was being given or received by a Muslim. I've made that mistake before. I would instead call 911 right away.

Do you have a mosque in your 'hood?
Yes, four or five.
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#14
(06-26-2016, 11:44 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Do you have a mosque in your 'hood?
Yes, four or five.

Do they play the call to prayer over a loud speaker? I would think noise ordinances would keep them from doing it, but I've read about people complaining of it.
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#15
If so, I haven't heard it over the other noises. My house is in an area between a freeway and a large hill, on a busy muni route.

But I can see how that would be very annoying.
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