08-03-2018, 08:43 AM
(08-02-2018, 01:50 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:(08-02-2018, 10:06 AM)Fry Guy Wrote: I am not for Mueller investigating "everything and everyone swampy and old partisan conspiracy theories" but I am very much for him ACTUALLY investigating ACTUAL collusion with the Russians to influence the 2016 election. Mannafort and Page and Flynn and Junior do not appear to within this scope from what has been put to them. He is simply trying to search for anything to charge them with regardless if it is without that agenda or not. He also seems to not focus on all parties but rather the trump campaign though there is no reason to do so and doubly so now the FISA warrant and dossier are discredited.
Oh, that's different than what you originally posted.
In any case, as per Mueller's scope, Manafort's alleged financial crimes were uncovered during the Russia Interference investigation. Since they weren't directly related to Russia's interference in the election, Mueller's team referred the matter to the appropriate state prosecutors for investigation. Those prosecutors got probable cause and collected evidence of alleged crimes, charged him and now he's on trial. As it should be.
As with Manafort, Michael Cohen came up during Mueller's investigation and potential crimes were uncovered. Since those crimes aren't directly related to Russia interference, Mueller's team referred them to state prosecutors. He hasn't been charged with any crimes yet, but I think he surely will be. We'll see.
Michael Flynn lied to federal investigators and congress about not talking with Russian officials about lifting sanctions prior to Trump taking office. I don't know if there was any talk about quid pro quo during that discussion. But, we know Flynn lied as he has pleaded guilty to lying. And, President Trump contends that's why Flynn was ousted -- lying about Russian communications to investigators and VP Pence.
Junior has been questioned, which to me was only common sense and unavoidable. He met with a Kremlin-backed Russian lawyer who offered dirt on Hillary Clinton -- that obviously would likely come up in an investigation related to Russia interference. The reason for that meeting has been undisputed since emails showed that his original 'it was only about adoption' story was false. He said he forgot. We also know that Donald Trump lied when he said Junior came up with the adoption narrative because President Trump's attorney has since told us that it was Donald Trump who dictated that narrative. However, Junior hasn't been charged with lying to investigators or violating federal election laws at this point. Maybe he will and maybe he won't, depending on intent and evidence. If he is charged, he'll be entitled to a fair trial just like anyone else.
The FISA warrants haven't been discredited, but I won’t argue the point.
I think on most points we kind of find set positions I see differently to you and some we agree on. I am glad to consider reasonable positions like your own without feeling obliged to disparage nor agree with it. Happy to agree to disagree to.
One point here you made though. About "Presidential manner". I think we both intrinsically understand what this means and it is not any manner you have when you are a President. Trump does not have that. You and I agree with this.
It is not that I do not care, or do not think it is important. This I wanted to point out. I would much rather he had the poise, grace, articulation and quiet demeanor of Obama. Honestly I would. But I would not swap that out for the positives I see.
I am prepared to facepalm occasionally and cringe and feel a little incredulous on occasion. If the results of his Presidency are justifications for this. It is not that I do not care or I devalue these things. They will always matter and should.
That is it anyhow. It is fair semantic a point, it was clarity more than anything.