dead wrong.

[Eat Shit And Die]

I have a documentary on him I have uploaded to my mediafire account, I will post the link when I am back from work if anyone is interested.

[Ilyanna]

I don't agree to the 'prisons must be hell on earth' approach, and I strictly disapprove of the death penalty, but I'm sad that the court has not taken the chance to rule him insane, since that woud have been the only chance to to lock him up for life.

Anyway, 21 years from now, people will not have forgotten what he's done. Maybe someone somewhere thought that letting him out eventually would be the only chance for someone to enact the death penalty to him - some way or another...

[Eat Shit And Die]

I was under the impression that he must serve 21 years before he is reviewed. If he fails his bid for freedom he would not be able to speak for three more years rinse and repeat.

[Ilyanna]

Ahh, the protective contentment/civil commitment, I've failed to spot that in the reports. Yeah, they can prolong prison indefinitely that way, even though he can apply to be released every five years. So they did find a way to bypass the limitation of years. Nice.

[Jezreel]

makes a fascist salute as he arrives in the Oslo courtroom today to hear the verdict



He really is a smug bastard


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-SANE.html

[Duchess]

Norway prison. Jesus Christ.

[Ilyanna]

He really is a smug bastard

he got everything he wanted, didn't he? The satisfaction of having done what he considers an heroic act, the power to trigger strong emotions in people, publicity, jail instead of psychiatric ward... No wonder he's smirking like that.

[Midwest Spy]

Even when I lived there in the mid-80's, the first wave of African immigration had already begun.

The young people I knew were NOT supportive of the way things were changing. I'm sure this guy has thousands of supporters (who won't publicy back him, but amongst their friends they talk about it).

I'd bet the Norwegians in power are more embarrassed by this whole deal than actually sad for the victims. I think Norwegians view themselves a little above most other European countries.

The continued influx of Muslim immigrants will continue to be a pain in their ass (like it is in many countries around the world).

Their 'prisons' sure look inviting. Wouldn't mind doing a stretch there. Probably conjugal services as well.

[Ilyanna]

Out of curiousity: Have you ever been denied the freedom of leaving a place for, say, more than a week, MS?

[Midwest Spy]

Out of curiousity: Have you ever been denied the freedom of leaving a place for, say, more than a week, MS?

Are you referring to my prison statement?

I did a stretch at the Federal Pen in St.Cloud (almost 4 years) and believe me, Norway's prison looked mighty comfy.

[Jezreel]

Norway prison. Jesus Christ.

This is nicer then some people's homes!

[RaisingAPrince]

What's with the kid's toys? Do their families live with them in "prison"?

[Ilyanna]

Out of curiousity: Have you ever been denied the freedom of leaving a place for, say, more than a week, MS?

Are you referring to my prison statement?

I did a stretch at the Federal Pen in St.Cloud (almost 4 years) and believe me, Norway's prison looked mighty comfy.

Yeah, that's what I meant. It's fascinating for me to see how different the ability to bear imprisonment is in people. I know a few otherwise pretty tough guys who completely broke down when doing a few weeks just because of the disempowerment (and our prisons are not that bad, from what I've been told), and others who did a few years like it was nothing. One guy in particular, he did 2 years in a Moroccan prison under the most severe conditions (including regular beatings), and when he came back, he just shrugged it off and built himself a new life.

I wasn't so much questioning your opinion but trying to find out the context it was given in - yeah, the pictures look like Norway's prisons are rather confortable. I have no problem with that, though, since my personal stance on prison time is along the lines of this:

"Both society and the individual simply have to put aside their desire for revenge, and stop focusing on prisons as places of punishment and pain," a Norwegian prison guard said in an interview with the Daily Mail.

[Duchess]

stop focusing on prisons as places of punishment

I strongly disagree with that. My expectation is that prisons ARE a place of punishment.

[Jezreel]

I thought punishment was the whole point in prison, why else are criminals sent there, to live for free for years?

[Ilyanna]

@ Duchess - yours and that of the majority of people, apparently.

In my opinion, the idea of punishment is based on a hierarchical structure, making those with the right to punish superior to those without. I have a problem with that, since I cannot see any reason for any person to feel superior to another, other than the purely evolutional one of being biologically 'fitter' (And most people I know really don't wanna go back to those times ). So the question for me is - how to treat someone who endangers others or has proven to be incapable of adhering to the rules of the community they live in with the maximum of effect?

The choices I see are
a) do away with this 'human dignity is inviolable' crap, and kill them off instantly - super effective, but flawed if you think on who is making a community's rules nowadays. (Hint - it ain't you, unless you're a very powerful, wealthy person)

or

b) take it (the dignity bit) seriously and apply it to everyone no matter what they did. That means we keep them away from people as long as they pose a danger and try to find out, change, or do away the reasons why they weren't adhering to the rules in the first place. Psychology taught us that negative reinforcement (aka punishment), is way less effective in that than its counterpart. Not as satisfying on an instinctual level, but definitely better for one's own survival if tptb decide on new rules.

So the decision to be made in a community is if the dignity of every human is inviolable, or no one's. Anything in between is just semantics and power play. IMO.


@Jezreel - I dunno about the US, but over here, the official and express purpose of the penal system is rehabilitation.

[Jezreel]

I don't know about the U.S either, but here it is technically rehabilitation too. Thing is, there are many many people who commit atrocious crimes that cannot be rehabilitated. Whether I agree with the DP is irrelevant, but I don not believe that child predators/murderers/rapists etc deserve to live in a cosy environment for free, while working minimally and the taxpayers foot the bill for their life.
If someone can be rehabilitated then great, but the many that can't don't deserve the life of riley.

[Eat Shit And Die]

stop focusing on prisons as places of punishment

I strongly disagree with that. My expectation is that prisons ARE a place of punishment.

Yeah, Norwegian prisons totally seem like a punishment :/ a complete deterrent.

[Midwest Spy]

I dunno about the US, but over here, the official and express purpose of the penal system is rehabilitation.

^^^ This is where the European view and the U.S. view differ. Sure, some criminals I'd love to see get rehabilitated. Young people who make mistakes are a prime example.

Where I don't follow your rationale is how EVERYBODY fits neatly into one category.

Some people are worse than others. This guy EXECUTED 77 people. This wasn't 'in the heat of passion' or an accident. He deliberately killed 77 people. He should fry.

If he were here, I wouldn't want to waste one more dime on him. Just the cost of one bullet to the head.

[Duchess]

Yeah, Norwegian prisons totally seem like a punishment :/ a complete deterrent.

The only thing I know about Norwegian prisons comes from the photos I posted earlier today. I know about American prisons & I know Americans, they'd never put up with a prison system like Norway appears to have. You go to prison to be punished here and that's as it should be.