Gay Marriage / Gay Rights

[HairOfTheDog]

Tolerance and acceptance of diverity goes both ways, I agree. And, I don't think that calling heterosexuals who oppose gay marriage (or with whom one doesn't see eye to eye on any issue) a fag, or a lesbian, or any gay reference lines up with advocating for gay equality. Happens all the time though on-line, so meh...

For those of us who support gay marriage rights and equal benefits, a step forward today. This morning, a Federal Circuit Court in Boston ruled that same sex couples married in a state which legally recognizes the marriage are entitled to the same Federal benefits afforded to heterosexual spouses, primarily : tax, health and pension benefits. While there are only a handful of states that recognize gay marriage at present, this is an important ruling in terms of achieving true equality, imo. It sets a positive precedent for future states that ultimately legalize same sex marriage.

The court did not address whether or not the same sex spouses would be entitled to those Federal benefits if they were to move to a state that does not recognize same sex marriage. Some tricky logistics and conflicts when it comes to states' rights in deciding whether to recognize same sex marriage and Federal benefits for married couples. The judges indicated that this issue might need to be decided by the Supreme Court.

[IMaDick]

If the supreme court finds in favor of the gay rights people, wouldn't that be legislating morality or in this case the lack thereof for the rest of the country?

I think there is ample evidence from the gay community stating that morality can't be legislated.

I think the USSC will decline to answer the question.

If the gays really want to get this shit done they need a Constitutional amendment that will allow the USSC to look at the issue as a Constitutional guarantee.

until then the USSC really has no authority on the issue, The Constitution is pretty clear on where things like this belong.

[HairOfTheDog]

If the supreme court finds in favor of the gay rights people, wouldn't that be legislating morality or in this case the lack thereof for the rest of the country?

I think there is ample evidence from the gay community stating that morality can't be legislated.

I think the USSC will decline to answer the question.

If the gays really want to get this shit done they need a Constitutional amendment that will allow the USSC to look at the issue as a Constitutional guarantee.

until then the USSC really has no authority on the issue, The Constitution is pretty clear on where things like this belong.

Yep, it's each state's right to decide whether same sex marriage is legally recognized, as it stands now. I don't know if the USSC would get involved either when it comes to deciding whether a legally married gay couple receiving Fed benefits in one state is entitled to the same benefits if they move to a state that prohibits gay marriage. At present, the Fed doesn't have any authority to mandate states' decisions regarding recognition of gay marriage; it would be unconstitutional. No idea whether LGBT activists and advocates are pursuing a Constitutional amendment; gonna do a little research later.

Interesting and frustrating conflicts between Federal Law and States' Rights at play here (and in regard to other hot issues). The Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) defines marriage for federal purposes as unions exclusively between a man and woman. Yet, each state ultimately decides whether to adhere to this defintion or not. Obama is pushing to abolish DOMA. Not sure that DOMA really has any bearing on states' decisions, but I think DOMA is irrelevant anyway. It should be canned, imo...

[Donovan]

I didn't mean to make you mad, dick, although I am impressed at the text wall you can make when you're pissed. Come over here and we can kiss and make up. Since you don't wanna tell these nice people which hole it's okay to manslam, whisper it in my ear and I'll get one of my liberal pinko commie faggot friends to hook you up on the downlow. No one need ever know...

[IMaDick]

I didn't mean to make you mad, dick, although I am impressed at the text wall you can make when you're pissed. Come over here and we can kiss and make up. Since you don't wanna tell these nice people which hole it's okay to manslam, whisper it in my ear and I'll get one of my liberal pinko commie faggot friends to hook you up on the downlow. No one need ever know...

Stop thinking about my ass faggot.

I'm not a cookie.

[Donovan]

lol you never explained why it's immoral or why it's okay for you to make that call. You're pretty steamed huh? You gonna kick my ass?

[IMaDick]

lol you never explained why it's immoral or why it's okay for you to make that call. You're pretty steamed huh? You gonna kick my ass?

You haven't explained why it's not immoral or why it's ok for you to make that call or for that matter why your opinion should even be considered?

You're pretty damned stupid aren't you?

[pspence]

I hear ya Aussie. I can't stand those loud mouthed screaming Christians full of hatred either. However, for every one of those nut jobs out there, there are gazillions of Christians like myself that:
----- Are not self righteous in the least because we have fucked up and beyond
----- Am only here because of His grace and mercy...if I were Him I would kicked my ass to the curb long ago
----- know many gay people that are the coolest people ever
----- Know many gay people that have more integrity and class than I have
----- Freely admit Lots are better parents than I ever was
With all that being said, my concern is deeper, more spiritual ... of something our country might lose ...on the other hand if it was that big of a deal I would have thought Jesus would have mentioned it. It does say its wrong in old testament but so is eating certain meats, piercingly, adornments on women, etc... The God I know came to set us free from the law.

[Duchess]

lol you never explained why it's immoral or why it's okay for you to make that call.

You haven't explained why it's not immoral or why it's ok for you to make that call

It's not okay for anyone to make that call. It's no ones business what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own property.

[Donovan]

lol you never explained why it's immoral or why it's okay for you to make that call.

You haven't explained why it's not immoral or why it's ok for you to make that call

It's not okay for anyone to make that call. It's no ones business what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own property.

QFT. I could care less about the morality or immorality of the matter, it comes down to simple logic. Gay people are consenting adults who exist with or without legal right to marry. They're not affecting my happiness in any way at all either positively or negatively. There are laws which exist that hinder their basic civil rights for no other reason than a bunch of self righteous asshiles like Dick don't approve. Same reason they used to say blacks couldn't marry whites etc.
You want to know my justification for supporting the right of gays to marry and why I have the right to make that call? Because I also follow a set of Principles you might have heard of:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; and that they are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with certain INALIENABLE rights; and that among these rights are life, liberty, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

In case you need a translation, you mewling spawn, it's the fucking Preamble to our Constitution. You know, the American one you Tea Party twats claim to believe in? It says that Americans believe in freedom to live and let fucking live, because GOD FUCKING SAID SO.

There's my justification, cocksucker. Argue that if you can...

[Duchess]

I could care less about the morality or immorality of the matter, it comes down to simple logic. Gay people are consenting adults who exist with or without legal right to marry. They're not affecting my happiness in any way at all either positively or negatively. There are laws which exist that hinder their basic civil rights for no other reason than a bunch of self righteous asshiles like Dick don't approve. Same reason they used to say blacks couldn't marry whites etc.

That's exactly how I feel. You said it way better than I could have, I become irate when people think it's okay to bleat about the private lives of consenting adults. It's not okay & it will never be okay. I don't think that I will ever be able to understand people who do that, I don't get it at all. I'd bet my bank account that all the people bleating about this subject would have a goddamn fit if someone attempted to come into their home & tell them how to live their life.

[crash]

I'd bet my bank account that all the people bleating about this subject would have a goddamn fit if someone attempted to come into their home & tell them how to live their life.

Heh...Jesus and his mates would be glad to take it from you, too, if they could work out a way how to.

[Donovan]

Ps on reflection it may actually be the Declaration of Independence that phrase is in. I have large chunks of both memorized and sometimes confuse the two. Just thought I'd correct before dick comes in and tries to key on that instead of the fact that he's dead wrong.

[Duchess]

I wouldn't bet it unless I was certain I'd win the bet. Every one of those bleating bastards would have a tremendous issue with anyone trying to tell them how to live their life. I don't doubt that at all.

[Jimbone]

There are laws which exist that hinder their basic civil rights for no other reason than a bunch of self righteous asshiles like Dick don't approve. Same reason they used to say blacks couldn't marry whites etc.

Wait a second... blacks can marry whites?

[IMaDick]

lol you never explained why it's immoral or why it's okay for you to make that call.

You haven't explained why it's not immoral or why it's ok for you to make that call

It's not okay for anyone to make that call. It's no ones business what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own property.

QFT. I could care less about the morality or immorality of the matter, it comes down to simple logic. Gay people are consenting adults who exist with or without legal right to marry. They're not affecting my happiness in any way at all either positively or negatively. There are laws which exist that hinder their basic civil rights for no other reason than a bunch of self righteous asshiles like Dick don't approve. Same reason they used to say blacks couldn't marry whites etc.
You want to know my justification for supporting the right of gays to marry and why I have the right to make that call? Because I also follow a set of Principles you might have heard of:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; and that they are endowed BY THEIR CREATOR with certain INALIENABLE rights; and that among these rights are life, liberty, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

In case you need a translation, you mewling spawn, it's the fucking Preamble to our Constitution. You know, the American one you Tea Party twats claim to believe in? It says that Americans believe in freedom to live and let fucking live, because GOD FUCKING SAID SO.

There's my justification, cocksucker. Argue that if you can...

Now apply your post to me and were all good.

You see I have every right to disapprove.

Just like you have every right to approve.

Stop being a hypocrite and understand that simple concept.

[IMaDick]

If you look back through this thread, I have not one time told any of you that you should change your mind and disapprove or that you should stop supporting what you believe in.

Im a legend that lives and lets live.

[Duchess]

You want to take rights away from others because you don't approve of their lifestyle...a lifestyle that's none of your business. You want to deny them the very same rights that you enjoy because you think how they live is wrong.

[IMaDick]

You want to take rights away from others because you don't approve of their lifestyle...a lifestyle that's none of your business. You want to deny them the very same rights that you enjoy because you think how they live is wrong.

Take rights? deny rights?

If marriage were a right we would not be having this conversation.

Marriage is a civil contract.

I have said this before and I will say it again, it's not gay marriage Im opposed to to, it's gays trying to set themselves up as a minority based on a sexual preference that Im opposed to.

donoboy exhibits that particular aspect of gay marriage quite well, he lands on the bullseye of where my opposition is centered.

[Duchess]

I don't look at it like you do. I don't see them as a minority, I see them as people in love wanting the same benefits a man & woman are allowed when they marry. I think they should be allowed everything a traditional couple are allowed. I've never seen them as freaks of nature or think that what they do is ungodly.