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Yeah, way more blacks than whites were committing crimes in Ferguson. Way more more blacks live in Ferguson than whites, though.
Whether or not the percentage of crimes committed by blacks was proportionate or disproportionate to the population make-up in Ferguson, I don't know.
It's easy for one side or the other to position qualitative findings as supporting their arguments when they leave out quantitative measures, IMO. I always look for both.
This is from the DOJ report, for example:
Minor, largely discretionary offenses such as disturbing the peace and jaywalking were brought almost exclusively against blacks. -- My first question is, "well is that because such offenses were committed almost exclusively by blacks, or is it because blacks were unfairly targeted by police?"
Then when I see this DOJ finding, it leads me to believe that discrimination against blacks was in fact a problem:
When whites were charged with these crimes, they were 68 percent more likely to have their cases dismissed, the Justice Department found.
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It's a tough call, but if most cops were to quit that town would probably turn into a raging inferno. How do the Black leaders or the Government propose to do? Is there a plan? Or no matter what happens it won't be good enough, there has to be law and no matter how its enforced people will not like it.
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
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Ferguson definitely needs black faces on their force.
But I'll guarantee you no cop in their right mind would choose to work in Ferguson. Nothing to gain and everything to lose.
Cops can't win either. The guys doing their job, or going above and beyond don't gain attention.
I can't believe this is still so devisive. The kid was a thug.
Oh that's right, it's a village full of thugs, thus the outrage.
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Do you have a reading problem or a comprehension problem, MS?
What's happening now is not about one incident involving the death of one black teen last year.
It's about a DOJ investigatory report that was released just days ago; a report which concluded that systematic corruption, abuse of power, and racial discrimination are pervasive in the Ferguson city management and police force.
The protest that took place last night was in response to that investigation/report.
And, I'll bet you're wrong about Ferguson not being able to attract new police officers. I bet there will be police officer candidates of different races who'll want to be part of the rebuilding, for various reasons. We'll see.
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It may be safer drawing blood from Ebola patients.
Ferguson was probably a rough town to begin with and that's where other towns sent their cowboy cops.
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
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Didn't read the article.
Was simply commenting because I know 2 cops were ambushed in Ferguson.
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(03-12-2015, 11:29 AM)Maggot Wrote: It's a tough call, but if most cops were to quit that town would probably turn into a raging inferno. How do the Black leaders or the Government propose to do? Is there a plan? Or no matter what happens it won't be good enough, there has to be law and no matter how its enforced people will not like it.
According to the mayor of Ferguson, James Knowles:
Ferguson city officials will meet with the Justice Department in about two weeks to begin negotiating an agreement on reforms. If the two parties cannot reach a consensus, the Justice Department can sue and force reform. The city would not settle with the Justice Department if the negotiations do not lead to mutual satisfaction. "There are a lot of things in that (DOJ) report that are very troubling and need to be addressed, but there are also things that are an overreach," Knowles said last Friday.
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I think the reform measures will probably entail appointing a new City Manager; one who is committed to abolishing policies that generate city revenue by creating/increasing ticketing and arrest opportunities; one who can develop new revenue streams.
And, they'll need to appoint a new Chief of Police who'll embrace, implement and advocate new PD training and policies in regards to managing diversity, community relations, appropriate use of force...
^ That's if Ferguson city management and police functions don't just get rolled up into the St. Louis county management umbrella instead. But, even then, those same types of corrective measures would need to be undertaken and monitored if the Ferguson problems also exist in whole or part at the county level.
I agree with MS on one point: whether Ferguson is ultimately patrolled through a revamped Ferguson PD or instead through St. Louis County PD, smart management and reform consultants will likely be looking to increase the racial diversity of the police officers assigned.
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That would work if the dissenters would give it time to work. Mobs are not very patient.
He ain't heavy, he's my brother.
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I can't say I know how the blacks feel but given the content of that report I can certainly understand why they feel the way they do. I'm not condoning the violence. I just think that report was enlightening and it gave me a little insight as to why they act the way they do.
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Good news:
-- Both police officers who were shot last night were released from the hospital this morning; neither sustained long-term injuries.
-- Three suspects were apprehended at a home in Ferguson earlier today.
The St. Louis County Police and Missouri Highway Patrol have taken over security duties in Ferguson for the time being. Ferguson PD remains responsible for routine patrol.
Story/update: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio.../70194012/
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The person who shot the two police officers Wednesday night is still on the loose.
The three people who were taken into custody yesterday after SWAT stormed a home turned out to be witnesses only -- they were pursued because they were seen running from the protest site after the shots were fired and were reportedly cleared of any involvement after questioning.
Members of the community are now protesting the shooter and expressing anger that a gunman’s bullets may threaten to interrupt a community on the cusp of significant change.
Latest: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/12...e&ir=Crime
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I'd run from the site of a shooting too.
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(03-13-2015, 12:45 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: The person who shot the two police officers Wednesday night is still on the loose.
The three people who were taken into custody yesterday after SWAT stormed a home turned out to be witnesses only -- they were pursued because they were seen running from the protest site after the shots were fired and were reportedly cleared of any involvement after questioning.
Members of the community are now protesting the shooter and expressing anger that a gunman’s bullets may threaten to interrupt a community on the cusp of significant change.
Latest: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/12...e&ir=Crime 
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Yeah, this is laugh-out-loud funny stuff alright:
Portland Robinson, 52, a black woman from nearby Normandy, said she supported the protests, but didn’t understand why someone would ambush police officers after the resignation of Jackson and other officials.“This has got to stop. The police were innocent. What if they had killed them, then what?” Robinson asked in an interview. “Blood is still red.” “Shooting is just going to cause more division between the blacks and the whites. St. Louis has always has been divided,” Robinson said. “We don’t need any more of this.”
A man who gave his name as Pastor Jim, who lives about 1 1⁄2 hours from Ferguson in St. Francois County, drove to the city to pray with residents after hearing about the shooting on the radio. “I come up here to speak peace and pray with people who want prayer, people’s concerns, for the police, and just pray for the people that are just walking around,” said Pastor Jim, who declined to provide his last name because he didn’t want people to think he was looking for recognition. “Everyone’s spirit has been broken. They need their spirit lifted up.”
Willie Clay, 59, from nearby Northwoods, was in Ferguson capturing footage of the crime scene on Thursday. “The police were only doing their job," Clay said. "The troublemakers infiltrate the protesters that are honestly protesting. The other people come in just to stir the pot and contribute to trouble. Those situations shouldn’t be tolerated.”
Clay said he believes problems Justice Department investigators found in Ferguson are common in other municipalities in St. Louis County. “We’re Americans and we’re trying to fit in," Clay said. "People still think we don’t fit in.” Clay, who said he'll turn 60 on Friday, said he wants to see things improve in his lifetime.........
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You think those ^ Ferguson residents and the many others condemning the shooter are lying, Gunnar? Or, is there another reason you think it's funny?
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I feel bad for those who live there. I believe they only want to live in peace & harmony. I think they are spot on when they say it's outsiders starting all the shit. People who care about their communities don't do that kind of stuff.
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(03-13-2015, 01:30 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Yeah, this is laugh-out-loud funny stuff alright:
Portland Robinson, 52, a black woman from nearby Normandy, said she supported the protests, but didn’t understand why someone would ambush police officers after the resignation of Jackson and other officials.“This has got to stop. The police were innocent. What if they had killed them, then what?” Robinson asked in an interview. “Blood is still red.” “Shooting is just going to cause more division between the blacks and the whites. St. Louis has always has been divided,” Robinson said. “We don’t need any more of this.”
A man who gave his name as Pastor Jim, who lives about 1 1⁄2 hours from Ferguson in St. Francois County, drove to the city to pray with residents after hearing about the shooting on the radio. “I come up here to speak peace and pray with people who want prayer, people’s concerns, for the police, and just pray for the people that are just walking around,” said Pastor Jim, who declined to provide his last name because he didn’t want people to think he was looking for recognition. “Everyone’s spirit has been broken. They need their spirit lifted up.”
Willie Clay, 59, from nearby Northwoods, was in Ferguson capturing footage of the crime scene on Thursday. “The police were only doing their job," Clay said. "The troublemakers infiltrate the protesters that are honestly protesting. The other people come in just to stir the pot and contribute to trouble. Those situations shouldn’t be tolerated.”
Clay said he believes problems Justice Department investigators found in Ferguson are common in other municipalities in St. Louis County. “We’re Americans and we’re trying to fit in," Clay said. "People still think we don’t fit in.” Clay, who said he'll turn 60 on Friday, said he wants to see things improve in his lifetime.........
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You think those ^ Ferguson residents and the many others condemning the shooter are lying, Gunnar? Or, is there another reason you think it's funny? I think at this point, they'd protest another protester for protesting a protest that they themselves protest. I'm so glad that all of these protests are having such a positive affect.<-------sarcasm font.
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Yeah, Gunnar, it's just straight up ironic and crazy that people who would speak out against what they believe is unwarranted violence by police against citizens would also speak out against what they believe is unwarranted violence by citizens against police and continue pushing for positive change. What the hell are they thinking? 
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(03-13-2015, 01:57 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Yeah, Gunnar, it's just straight up ironic and crazy that people who would speak out against what they believe is unwarranted violence by police against citizens would also speak out against what they believe is unwarranted violence by citizens against police and continue pushing for positive change. What the hell are they thinking? And every ounce of your being believes that every single person out there protesting, is protesting to get those changes on the table so we can start seeing something positive out of all of this right? right back atcha GF. Gimme a break.
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You appear to need a reality check more than a break, Gunnar.
I never said or implied that I believe every single protestor's goals and motivations are the same. I never said that because I don't believe that to be the case.
It's YOU who contends that protestors who clearly and specifically stated their goals and motivations (for more peace and less systematic discrimination) are laughable -- as if everyone who's protesting is full of shit or unjustified because they don't feel, think, or view things like you do, or because you don't think protests are warranted or effective.
And yet, the protestors -- many of whom I do believe are pushing for a more just and peaceful community, based on their interviews and statements -- undoubtedly contributed to getting major changes mandated in Ferguson, Missouri. Personally, I hope they succeed in achieving their goals -- the changes have come at a cost, no doubt.
Anyway, your position and ineffective sarcasm here isn't amusing enough to me to call it laughable, but it's definitely eye-roll worthy, IMO. And, you can eye-roll me right back all you like, BF -- I can take it! 
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(03-13-2015, 01:57 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: Yeah, Gunnar, it's just straight up ironic and crazy that people who would speak out against what they believe is unwarranted violence by police against citizens would also speak out against what they believe is unwarranted violence by citizens against police and continue pushing for positive change. What the hell are they thinking? Legitimate protesters would have stopped when they got what they wanted. The Chief is gone. They won. Ooooh no... There some folks in Ferguson right now who want chaos. They want to raise hell no matter what protest is on the menu today. Whatever good intentions there were at one time in Ferguson are long gone. The people that are there now want to stir the pot. 10 years from now People in Ferguson will talk about what Ferguson was like before the protests and it won't be because the world is such a beeter place to live now because of Ferguson.
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