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+--- Thread: GUNS and kids (/thread-4649.html)
GUNS and kids - Lady Cop - 01-11-2011
this CNN video shows a little boy 8 years old about to die. his dad (a doctor) was letting him try an UZI. i'd like your opinion. does an 8 year old need to know how to fire an UZI? it was clearly jamming. the "certified instructor" was 15. why wasn't it stopped and the weapon inspected?
watch this report and tell me what you think. (brief advert first.)
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/01/10/exp.pn.boy.uzi.death.hln?hpt=T2
The teenager who worked at a gun show where 8-year-old Christopher Bizilj accidentally killed himself while shooting an Uzi testified yesterday he twice suggested the boy's father pick a less powerful weapon for the boy to shoot.
But Christopher's father, Dr. Charles Bizilj, insisted that his son be allowed to fire the automatic weapon, Michael Spano told the court. Spano was 15 at the time of the 2008 Massachusetts gun expo and was put in charge of allowing people to fire the 9 mm Micro Uzi, a submachine gun that fires 20 ROUNDS A SECOND.
civil suit:
Spano set the boy up at a firing line, where Spano’s 15-year-old-son acted as “line officer,” the complaint states. The teen loaded the weapon and handed it to Christopher Bizijl, providing instructions for handling it. “Charles Bizilj was ordered to stay clear of the area and was required to stand behind restraining ropes,” the lawsuit says. “The 15-year-old ‘line officer’ ... backed away from the decedent after handing the child a loaded, fully automatic weapon.” The gun stuck twice when Christopher Bizilj attempted to fire it, the complaint says. The teen went back to clear a jammed round of ammunition. The boy put his finger on the trigger a third time. “Without further instruction or guidance from the line officer, the decedent placed his fingers on the trigger mechanism of the weapon and attempted to raise the Micro Uzi to his shoulder. The stock of the weapon slipped down from the decedent’s shoulder and the barrel of same spun upward. The decedent attempted to prevent the weapon from falling, and in doing so, the gun spun upward,” according to the complaint.
RE: GUNS - Lady Cop - 01-11-2011
![[Image: 091102_springfield_map.jpg]](http://www1.whdh.com/images/news_articles/320x180/091102_springfield_map.jpg)
who is to blame?
January 10, 2011
Washington Post
SPRINGFIELD, Mass. -- A gun club where an 8-year-old boy accidentally killed himself with an Uzi first agreed to hold a machine gun shoot a decade ago when the organizer told club officials it was legal and safe, one of those officials testified Monday.
Steven Sklarski, recording secretary for the Westfield Sportsman's Club, testified on the fifth day of the manslaughter trial of former Pelham, Mass., Police Chief Edward Fleury.
The club had held the event for seven years without a problem before Christopher Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., accidentally shot himself in the head in 2008 when the 9 mm micro Uzi he was firing kicked back toward him. Fleury, whose company co-sponsored the shoot, has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter and furnishing machine guns to minors.
"Mr. Fleury approached the club and said they would like to have a machine gun shoot that was safe and legal," Sklarski testified.
Sklarski said Fleury was the event's main organizer and was responsible for having the machine guns brought in, while the Sportsman's Club provided the venue and received an undisclosed percentage of the proceeds.
Sklarski, who is a firefighter and paramedic, said he was at the main gate when the boy shot himself. He said he heard "cease fire, cease fire" over his walkie-talkie, grabbed a medical bag and ran over to the scene, where he saw Christopher on the ground with a head injury.
"I tried to get close to him, but there were other men around him," he said.
One of the other men was Christopher's father, an emergency room doctor who videotaped the shooting. The jury last week saw the graphic video, which prompted a collective gasp in the courtroom.
Prosecutor William Bennett has alleged that Fleury's reckless and illegal actions led to Christopher's death, and that it's illegal for minors to shoot machine guns.
Fleury's lawyer, Rosemary Scapicchio, says Fleury wasn't responsible for the accident and has blamed the boy's father, Charles Bizilj, for letting Christopher shoot a dangerous weapon. She also has argued that there is an exemption in state law that allows minors to shoot machine guns if they're supervised by someone with a firearms license.
Scapicchio also noted that Charles Bizilj had signed a waiver acknowledging the risks, including death, and clearing anyone of liability if something bad happened.
Hampden Superior Court Judge Peter Velis told jurors Monday that deliberations could begin Wednesday, if not earlier, pending any courthouse closure from a snowstorm that's supposed to begin late Tuesday or early Wednesday.
It's not clear if Fleury will testify.
Prosecutors have said that Charles Bizilj was not charged because he based his decision to allow his two sons, including then-11-year-old Colin, to fire the gun on information from others who should have known it was too dangerous.
Charles Bizilj testified last week that he and his two sons were looking forward to the shoot and he thought the event would be safe and well-supervised.
Bennett tried to show part of the video - but not the gunshot wound - to the jury again Monday to accompany the testimony of a state police sergeant about the weapon, but Velis rejected the attempt after Scapicchio objected.
Two other men, Domenico Spano of New Milford, Conn., and Carl Giuffre of Hartford, Conn., were also charged with involuntary manslaughter and await trial after pleading not guilty. They brought the machine guns to the gun fair, and both had machine gun licenses.
the father. Fleury, on trial. Christopher.
RE: GUNS and kids - Lady Cop - 01-11-2011
Christopher loved Cape Cod and was laid to rest at the Evergreen Cemetery in Eastham near where he spent his summers at the family home there.
RE: GUNS and kids - Duchess - 01-11-2011
Who is to blame? The father, he's the one who was in control of what his child was allowed to do.
RE: GUNS and kids - Lady Cop - 01-11-2011
i also think dad was stupid...and yet...the father relied upon this advert:
(note, i would not have let my child fire an automatic weapon at that age! fucking things are noted for jamming/stovepipes. too much weapon for a little boy in my opinion.)
![[Image: uzi-micro2.jpg]](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_8a-ytHKUQwY/TSf60jvqIxI/AAAAAAAACgk/n0BJZS7xfjw/s200/uzi-micro2.jpg)
RE: GUNS and kids - ramseycat - 01-11-2011
I don't care what the ad says or what the orgainizers said, it's the fathers fault. He is responsible for his children and what do or don't do. There is no way in hell I would EVER let my 8 year old shoot an UZI. Or any gun for that matter except maybe a BB gun. The father needs to stop blaming everyone else and look in the mirror.
RE: GUNS and kids - sally - 01-11-2011
It's the States fault for having a law that allows minors to fire deadly weapons at all, it's the gun club's fault for allowing the boy to fire the weapon when they have the right to say no to minors, and most of all it's the fathers fault for being a fucking moron.
RE: GUNS and kids - Cracker - 01-11-2011
Why should any government entity have any laws regarding children and what they can/cannot do if all children have parents? Because people are fucking stupid. I hate living with laws made for stupid fucking people when I have a little common sense. Retards are cramping my style.
The dad is at fault. I am shocked that an emergency room doctor would willingly have his own children around guns when he sees firsthand every day what damage can be done when guns are handled by idiots. Shame on the dad. Hard lesson to learn.
RE: GUNS and kids - username - 01-11-2011
What Sally said.
I heard a news report recently about a 10 year old Ohio boy who shot and killed his mom because he was pissed at her about chores. As part of that report, they said the kid had his own guns in his room and I think they said something about child gun permits...? I didn't know such a thing existed. I can see why hunting families etc. might want to teach a kid how to handle/shoot a regular gun (not a freaking Uzi) but no way in hell would I let my kids have access to a gun at their whim. Getting my kids to do their homework is bitch enough as it is--I'd be dead for sure.
RE: GUNS and kids - Duchess - 01-11-2011
Bottom line...you parents are responsible for your own fuckin' kids. What the state or anyone else allows shouldn't even enter into decisions YOU make for YOUR kids. Fuckin' Jesus Christ..
RE: GUNS and kids - Lady Cop - 01-11-2011
the family reached a $700,000 out-of-court settlement with the suppliers of the gun and ammunition they leased at the expo, and the father published a book about grieving. the parents divorced over this.
i think the case may go to the jury by tomorrow. 2 other people are to be tried in this case, so verdict will be telling.
post #9 here:
http://mockforums.net/thread-4197.html
is about the kid who shot his mom over chores. he had 4 loaded guns, kept in his room! the parents separated because mom did not want the guns in the house. but they were still there.
RE: GUNS and kids - Duchess - 01-11-2011
Damn shame it took something so drastic to show her that her husband has shit for brains.
RE: GUNS and kids - sally - 01-11-2011
(01-11-2011, 03:32 PM)Duchess Wrote:
Bottom line...you parents are responsible for your own fuckin' kids. What the state or anyone else allows shouldn't even enter into decisions YOU make for YOUR kids. Fuckin' Jesus Christ..
Well no one can help that the father is an idiot, but if the gun club had some kind of restrictions on children operating weapons they are not able to control then the kid wouldn't be dead right now.
RE: GUNS and kids - Duchess - 01-11-2011
I stand by my statement. The children are the parents responsibility, that's where it begins & that's where it ends, with the parents.
RE: GUNS and kids - Cracker - 01-11-2011
(01-11-2011, 05:06 PM)sally Wrote: Well no one can help that the father is an idiot, but if the gun club had some kind of restrictions on children operating weapons they are not able to control then the kid wouldn't be dead right now.
I have had a .22 rifle (.22/20 gauge over and under Savage, thing of beauty, still have it) since I was seven. We had shooting lessons, had to pass the hunter safety course, and spent hours out in the desert learning how to properly operate rifles and handguns. I would NEVER have been allowed to shoot that Uzi at a gun show. Who would let a kid shoot a weapon they don't own and are not familiar with? The blame lies squarley on the father. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.
RE: GUNS and kids - Lady Cop - 01-11-2011
i agree the father is a goddamn fool and should be the one on trial for child endangerment. but they can't charge him because the vendor was an "attractive nuisance" and within the law.
i too was given a .22 as a young girl and taught to use it, shooting coke cans off of logs out in the woods. and if i did not carry it at low ready/pointed at the ground while out hiking my Dad would have smacked me upside the head! i also learned on a .22 handgun. my Dad was not really a gun enthusiast, it was just part of his plan to teach me everything.
THAT GUN WAS TOO MUCH WEAPON FOR A LITTLE BOY!
the first time it jammed that should have been the end of it, and given to armorer to inspect.
RE: GUNS and kids - username - 01-11-2011
We have to legislate for idiots. There are just too many of them out there. Just think what would happen if Drain-o didn't have "caution, harmful or fatal if swallowed" printed on it. And people like Britney Spears would continue to drive with a baby in their lap.
RE: GUNS and kids - Maggot - 01-11-2011
Fathers fault completly. His children are minors and under his wing. If the kid had stolen a car and smashed it up ole Dad would be paying for it. Whatever this idiot does now is just smoke and mirrors to hide his own stupidity and deflect the blame. He should be used as an example and punished for manslaughter. His punishment should be doing a safety course for free for his entire life and he should have to play that movie in front of everyone everyday, a much more fitting punishment than jail and more productive.
RE: GUNS and kids - IMaDick - 01-11-2011
McDonalds guilty of serving hot coffee, enough said.
Not hardly, This parent placed the responsibility for learning to shoot a weapon of this type squarely in the hands of a 15 year old, He shirked his responsibility squarely to a 15 year old, He made a stupid decision, He placed his son in danger just as surely as if He was driving drunk with him in the car"which brings up an interesting point, was the father drinking?"
I range mastered for about ten years at a private gun shop / indoor range, no one under 18 was ever allowed to shoot.
Our court system will find fault with the vendor rather than the chooser of the service , they always do.
by the way drano didn't always have the warning on the label, and curling Irons didn't always have the warning not to insert them in body cavities either.
RE: GUNS and kids - username - 01-11-2011
(01-11-2011, 08:42 PM)IMaDick Wrote: ...and curling Irons didn't always have the warning not to insert them in body cavities either.
Ouch Dick, that must have hurt.