Fuck Muhammad!!!

[HairOfTheDog]

He scolded Egypt for bombing ISIS?

No, he didn't -- at least not that I heard or read.

The Pentagon and the White House are neither condemning nor condoning the bombings because there wasn't advance communication between our two countries.

We have a tricky relationship with Egypt right now. Egypt is formally our ally and the US has recently provided Egypt with helicopters and such, as requested, to fight off al-Qaeda. But, after the overthrow of Morsi when Sisi took over, Egypt has been pushing for arms from the US while not joining the US-led coalition to fight IS. So, Egypt is now pushing on Russia and China to supply them, supposedly. The new Egyptian government has also been at odds with Israel.

Personally, I understand why Obama wouldn't want to position the US as being at war with Islam, which is the image IS would like to have portrayed. All IS members claim to be Islamic, but not all Islamic people/Muslims support IS, not by a long shot. IS is slaughtering way more Muslims than they are people of other religions. We are fighting against terrorists and extremists who are using (and bastardizing) Islam to justify their actions. I don't have a problem calling them Islamic Extremists myself, however.

In regards to Obama weighing in on the Chapel Hill killings, I wish he hadn't. He said if the 3 college students were killed because they were Muslims, it was a hate crime (or something to that effect). True enough. But, based on everything that I've read about the case, the shooter isn't operating with a full deck, he's a vocal atheist who denounces all religions, and he'd had numerous threatening run ins with his neighbors of all faiths over parking in the complex before he finally lost his shit and shot the three students to death, the three students who happened to be Muslim. I don't think the suspect's motive was to kill Muslims, but we'll see what the investigation uncovers. In any case, I wish the President would have limited his public statement to expressing condolences. But, many people including the victims' families felt Obama said too little too late about the murders of the three Muslim students. I didn't like it when Obama made the comment about Trayvon Martin looking like his would-be son when there was a criminal investigation underway either, but many Americans praised his statements. So...

In my opinion, Obama and his administration have been frustratingly inconsistent as to what constitutes racial and religious discrimination and labeling.

[Duchess]

No, he didn't -- at least not that I heard or read.

Thank you. I spent a little time looking for more than one source that could confirm that and then I said fuck it.

[Duchess]

I heard from the horse's mouth just this morning that we are not at war with Islam, we are at war with terrorists. I saw him say that.

[Maggot]

Egypt has the right idea. They are not tied by political correctness or liberal critics that fail to understand that words mean nothing to ISIS. This administration lacks the balls to actually even recognize what they truly are and to berate a country for doing the same thing we do is wrong no matter how you look at it.

[HairOfTheDog]

I understand where you're coming from, Maggot.

Words and depictions mean a lot to IS when it comes to Muhammad, and when it comes to its propaganda and recruitment videos and postings. But, whether Obama recognizes them as extreme Islamic Fundamentalists (which I think many of them are or believe they are) probably doesn't matter much to IS directly. What does matter, in my opinion, is not giving all Muslims the impression that the US is at war with Islam or any religion, but instead only those who are killing and suppressing others.

I thought Kirby sounded kinda mealy mouthed myself. But, I didn't get the impression that he or Obama were berating or scolding Egypt for bombing the IS sites in Libya in retaliation for the beheadings. I got the impression that they want Egypt to fight IS as part of the international coalition and for there to be coordinated strategies and targets. I don't think they want Egypt to continue bombing or start a unilateral military campaign within Libya. That would definitely be different than what the US is doing (though we've admittedly done it plenty of times in our history).

The US was, in fact, asked by the Iraqi government and the Kurds to assist them in fighting IS in Iraq. And, we're doing so in partnership with a coalition of Middle Eastern and European countries. The same is true for Syria (although Assad couldn't directly ask, he scores by having others help quash IS in Syria and sure as hell doesn't object).

That's my interpretation of what was communicated, poorly, by the Pentagon and the White House. I agree with addressing the scourge in partnership with other countries who are impacted or threatened by it. And, while I understand Egypt's retaliatory bombing last weekend, I too hope that Sisi and company don't go off unilaterally in chaotic Libya beyond that strike. Egypt doesn't have to ask our permission or work as part of a team, but it behooves them politically to do the latter if their true objective is now to quash IS, in my opinion.

There isn't a bombing campaign that's gonna rid the world of IS in the short term without wiping out a shitload of civilians. It's gonna take time and coordinated strategies across geographic boundaries to really cripple them, I think. I don't know if Obama's strategy is the best one or not, but I understand the gist of it and I don't think there is one good definitive option or solution. It's a fucking mess.

[blueberryhill]

I am not making this about Democrat versus Republican; in fact, I took interesting test and it asks several questions to determine where your beliefs fit most, e.g. I was 84% Democrat, part Republican, part Libertarian, etc.....

I mostly agree with what Hair said above. Sometimes Obama sticks his foot in his mouth, e.g., remark about Trayvon Martin could have been his son, etc. Further, he should not have called the 3 Muslim killings a hate crime until facts are known. Sometimes facts are hard to discern, but he is the President, and whoever is giving him the briefing needs to do a better job of it...so I don't agree with everything he does, but I think he has done a good job especially considering the mess our country was in when he took over. You probably all have 401 plans, maybe a few stocks, mutual funds, bonds, etc...they are doing great...I won't dwell on the good he has done, but I do think Obama care is a good thing....Some of us are not going to agree, but we do have right to state our opinion on this thread.

Logic 101.....Terrorists in the Mid East are Muslims, also known as ISIS (focus of this discussion)...Not all Muslims are terrorists. ISIS members are killing other Muslims maybe just because they don't like someone's sandals...they don't have to have much of a legitimate reason, but they profess to do this in the name of Allah and or the Islamic faith. I know little about this faith except through the actions of these extremists who terrorize other Muslims and practice the Islamic faith...We can't believe that these outcast sociopaths actually represent the Islamic faith practiced by the World's Muslims....that would be a gross generalization, like saying that the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas represents Christianity or at least the beliefs of the Baptists here in the U.S. When you are President, you have to try to think about the welfare of all the people and impact on our allies around the World....Why does the U.S. always have to be the leader of the pack. It seems I have written this before so maybe I am repeating myself....Mr. Obama has asked Congress for more money to fight ISIS, but that doesn't always mean bombing everything in sight killing innocent civilians in process. Anything involving strategy, war, etc is usually a covert operation and unless you have a top secret clearance, you ain't gonna know what is going on....The Administration made several attempts to rescue hostages over the past few years and failed. One of the reasons, was because the prisoners were constantly moved from place to place....and everyone bitches about that. I am unaware right now of what Obama said (I have been sick most of the day) to criticize Egypt....whatever it was, it was probably misunderstood by the Republican critics....I don't think dropping bombs is always the solution. There are so many terrorist cells throughout this planet that bombing one country is like swatting one fly in Kansas...Do we really want our military men and women to continue to lose their lives in a never ending fight. You will never understand the pain of war unless you have lost someone in that war...If on down the road, it is determined that we need to send troops back to Mid East to fight terrorism, so be it, but we will also have to go to Africa, and other terror occupied places...If it comes to that, I think we need specialized troops, squads, to go in to predetermined locations and do their things, paratroops, helicopters, etc...
This country was founded on freedom of religion. I don't believe in the Islamic doctrine, but the fact that some extremists/terrorists do, doesn't mean all people who share the Islamic faith are terrorists.

[Midwest Spy]

HotD, I do see the US and its western allies being at war with fundamental Islam.

The first Islamic terrorists tried to blow up the Twin Towers in 1993. They've stated that they hate everything the West stands for: our freedoms, the prominence of women in our society, etc. They can't stand us.

Now, have some Muslims assimilated into our country? For sure. But, I'm bothered by the lack of any real outrage from the Muslim world about any atrocities committed in the name of Islam.

Jordan really only became angered when one of their own was murdered.

I just feel like Islam is really beginning to spread in the Western world, from Europe to the U.S., and if you asked these Islamic Fundamnetalists/terrorists what their ultimate goal would be, I'm sure they'd admit: an Islamic Caliphate that rules the world.

And, if we have a leader who is afraid to call a spade a spade, or at least present the idea for rational discussion, then we're in bad shape.

[blueberryhill]

I am not making this about Democrat versus Republican; in fact, I took interesting test and it asks several questions to determine where your beliefs fit most, e.g. I was 84% Democrat, part Republican, part Libertarian, etc.....

I mostly agree with what Hair said above. Sometimes Obama sticks his foot in his mouth, e.g., remark about Trayvon Martin could have been his son, etc. Further, he should not have called the 3 Muslim killings a hate crime until facts are known. Sometimes facts are hard to discern, but he is the President, and whoever is giving him the briefing needs to do a better job of it...so I don't agree with everything he does, but I think he has done a good job especially considering the mess our country was in when he took over. You probably all have 401 plans, maybe a few stocks, mutual funds, bonds, etc...they are doing great...I won't dwell on the good he has done, but I do think Obama care is a good thing....Some of us are not going to agree, but we do have right to state our opinion on this thread.

Logic 101.....Terrorists in the Mid East are Muslims, also known as ISIS (focus of this discussion)...Not all Muslims are terrorists. ISIS members are killing other Muslims maybe just because they don't like someone's sandals...they don't have to have much of a legitimate reason, but they profess to do this in the name of Allah and or the Islamic faith. I know little about this faith except through the actions of these extremists who terrorize other Muslims and practice the Islamic faith...We can't believe that these outcast sociopaths actually represent the Islamic faith practiced by the World's Muslims....that would be a gross generalization, like saying that the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas represents Christianity or at least the beliefs of the Baptists here in the U.S. When you are President, you have to try to think about the welfare of all the people and impact on our allies around the World....Why does the U.S. always have to be the leader of the pack. It seems I have written this before so maybe I am repeating myself....Mr. Obama has asked Congress for more money to fight ISIS, but that doesn't always mean bombing everything in sight killing innocent civilians in process. Anything involving strategy, war, etc is usually a covert operation and unless you have a top secret clearance, you ain't gonna know what is going on....The Administration made several attempts to rescue hostages over the past few years and failed. One of the reasons, was because the prisoners were constantly moved from place to place....and everyone bitches about that. I am unaware right now of what Obama said (I have been sick most of the day) to criticize Egypt....whatever it was, it was probably misunderstood by the Republican critics....I don't think dropping bombs is always the solution. There are so many terrorist cells throughout this planet that bombing one country is like swatting one fly in Kansas...Do we really want our military men and women to continue to lose their lives in a never ending fight. You will never understand the pain of war unless you have lost someone in that war...If on down the road, it is determined that we need to send troops back to Mid East to fight terrorism, so be it, but we will also have to go to Southwestern Africa, and other terror occupied places...If it comes to that, I think we need specialized troops, squads, to go in to predetermined locations and do their things, paratroops, helicopters, etc...
This country was founded on freedom of religion. I don't believe in the Islamic doctrine, but the fact that some extremists/terrorists do, doesn't mean all people who share the Islamic faith are terrorists.

* (already grounded in Northern Africa)

[HairOfTheDog]

I understand, MS. I call them Islamic extremists, Islamic terrorists, or Islamic fundamentalists all of the time. That's what they are or claim to be.

Some of them probably believe wholeheartedly that their interpretation of the Quran and their attempts to force the world back to a "purer" time are righteous endeavors. Others are probably weak-minded followers attaching themselves to a volatile cause or desperate individuals that figure if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. And, in my opinion, some at the top and behind the scenes are motivated mostly by power and money. I have no problem calling any of them Islamic xxxs. I don't really understand Obama's rationale for refusing to do so, but I do understand his reason for wanting to make it very clear that the US is not at war with Islam.

Islamists have denounced IS everywhere; condemnations made by Muslim world leaders, Muslim religious leaders, Muslim citizens across the globe, Arab Coalition... I've posted some of the widespread condemnations of IS by Muslims, but people (not just here) keep asking for more condemnation. In any event, members of IS see those who denounce them as apostates. I don't think IS gives two shits about what their condemners of any faith have to say; they only care about what Muhammad said according to their interpretations and about what their present day leaders tell them to care about.

[Mohammed]

Today we feel somewhat gutted.

Yesterday morning our very close friend Isabel got kidnapped by we don't know whom yet, as she was on the way to work with her colleague.






We are all going frantic here, the machine is running like mad, and let's see what will happen. She was doing some sensitive political work involving corruption, and I feel like shooting her boss as he fucking waited for 4 hours to try and save his ass before reporting her missing, as well as making her travel in fucking taxis to work! Motherfucker!

We are really close and it's the closest thing to seeing Jelly's pic on the news instead. It worked. So tickets are booked and the girls are off to South Africa next month. Fuck this!

[crash]

Wow..

I hope for a good out come for your friend, Mo, that is terrible news. You must all be in a state of panic and disbelief.

I won't lie; I'm really fucking glad that you're getting your girls and yourself (you are leaving too, right?) out of there. Don't really know you from a bar of soap, but I'd be fucking sad if anything happened to any of you.

[Duchess]

So tickets are booked and the girls are off to South Africa next month.

Leave with them, Mo! Other than Jelly & Jade there is nothing left in the world worth risking your life for. Nothing. Go with your family.

[Mohammed]

Well, if it would be that easy but I have to sell off everything here, which is quite a bit, so it will take some time. But I by myself am actually rather fine security wise. Since one bloody year everybody was telling her not to take those fucking taxis!! Because of her job she had threats and pissed of plenty of the upper politicians. In the French news they are saying she was working for the World Bank, so why the fuck they let her take taxis is beyond me.

Anyway, it looks like Al Qaeda took her, which I expected from the way it happened. I want to fucking water board that driver but I'm sure Francoise, who is French, most probably Foreign Legion the way he looks, in charge of one of the security companies here, and also her very close friend, is doing that actually right now since he told me they got him.

As long as the Americans don't send in a rescue team she should be fine and our last friends who got taken for 10 months actually came out looking much better and younger, so I'm curious how she will be in the end.

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm glad your family is safe and very much hope your friend Isabel is released (though I doubt it'll be a positive little sabbatical for her).

Do you think France should pay for her release if ransom is the motive for the kidnapping, Mo?

They typically do, though the money might be funneled through her company or a relative before it reaches whomever abducted her.

[Mohammed]

We are finding out more info and I shall keep it updated. One thing for sure, the Yemeni girl is a bloody hero!

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks Mo. Good to hear that your girls are out of the area for the time being, and hoping for the best outcome for Ms. Prime and Ms. Makawi.

I just read the updated story. The Houthis deny being responsible and al-Qaeda hasn't claimed responsibility. http://www.yementimes.com/en/1863/news/4...-women.htm

One of Makawi's friends speculates that the kidnapping may involve tribal groups which the Yemen’s Social Fund for Development (SFD) had worked. The friend speculates the tribes are seeking to apply pressure on the Ayala Consulting Corp. (for which the two kidnapped women are employees and were working a contracted SFD project) to resume pending development projects or release funds allocated for schemes in their area.

Whoever is responsible for abducting them from the taxi is negotiating for their release and Johannes Van Der Klaauw, UN Humanitarian Coordinator in Yemen, is acting as the mediator.

Speaking at a news conference yesterday, French President Francois Hollande said the women had been taken in front of a ministry building. Speaking of French national Prime, he said, “we ask for her to be released as soon as possible, we are trying to locate her and will do all we can for her to be freed.”

[Mohammed]

That's what the news are saying, but as far as I know, nobody has called in yet and it sounds pretty much like bull. I really don't hope Johannes is trying to do anything, and just think the boy who came up with all of this is looking for his 15 minutes of fame.

So far all fingers point towards one direction however, we are following there. Let's see. It's one Sheik who threatened her about a month ago from an area here called Khowlan. It's a pretty rough spot here, we have one of the pipeline camps in there, and at one stage the Government owned Oil Company who is one of my clients and running that pipeline, couldn't even fly in with a helicopter. It has also traditionally the largest weapons market in the country over there.

We are checking. Once the girls are out of the country and she is still being held, I'm actually considering driving there myself. A visit by the Sheik Alemani as they so sweetly call me here

She was that close!

[HairOfTheDog]

The source for the Times story is Khalid Al-Saiaghi, reportedly a friend of Makawi. The story doesn't say how he got his information or upon what he's basing his speculation, so I don't consider it confirmed fact either.

As for you putting on your hero cape and driving into the danger zone on behalf of your close kidnapped friend -- that sounds ill-conceived, to say the least, and a risk that doesn't seem to consider the potential impacts on the future of your own two girls. But, a sheik's gotta do what a sheik's gotta do...

[Duchess]

Friggin' savages are now destroying the museums -

[HairOfTheDog]

Understanding and Identifying Terrorism/Terrorists

Recently, Marie Harf -- White House State Department spokesperson -- released a report and statements indicating that the key to defeating terrorism is jobs. Harf's contention is that poverty and joblessness is what creates terrorists.

It's my opinion that uneducated and poor people with nothing to lose are likely key local targets for recruiters looking to amass fighters. But, I think Harf's wrong when it comes to the people in charge of terrorist organizations and in the upper ranks. I think ideology, power and money are a big factor there -- same as it ever was.

Anyway, it seems like the majority of commenters disagreed with Harf's assertions on the whole and she was the butt of quite a few jokes, and even some new lingo.



And, now that the IS beheader Jihadi John has reportedly been identified (Washington Post, BBC) as a Muslim Kuwaiti-born UK citizen from an upper middle class family who majored in computer programming at Westminster University, she's catching even more shit.

Jihadi John refs/story:
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/me...41697.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nati...story.html