ABORTION

[HairOfTheDog]

See, being direct and truthful can be fun too Maggot. That's a fact.

Here is some reading material the doctor will be right with you in a moment.

Cosmo

I watched the videos, Maggot. I already told you that.

You're the only person in this thread who is trying (and failing) to dispute other people's opinions and facts while refusing to address/support his own statements. I don't understand why; everyone's answered the questions you've posed to them.

But, it's your choice, Doctor Deflection.

[Maggot]

Its a transcript.
Abortion after 8-10 weeks is wrong
That is my opinion


I can live with that.

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, you're not obligated to support your opinion with rationale or answer anybody's questions - though no one has a problem doing so when questioned by you.

That's your choice and I can live with it too.

P.s. yeah, I recognize the transcript.

[Maggot]

So to put it into perspective, you'd be okay with all of this if they weren't discussing it as a business transaction (which it is) and remained solemn and maybe said grace and included a blessing for all aborted babies before they had their business lunch? I'm not aware of any profession that includes such practices currently. Should coroners also bless the dead and say a prayer before they perform the tasks they were educated and trained to perform? How about doctors in the ER? EMS responders?

As I've said many times, I'm okay with "all of this", period. It wasn't illegal, babies were not killed for their parts or tissue, and using the aborted tissue for stem cell research is a very good thing. I can't make it any clearer than that for you, Maggot.

While I sometimes also find it distasteful when nurses and doctors talk casually about pain or death in my presence, no - of course I don't expect them to do all of the silly things you suggested.

I understand that people in such businesses sometimes come across as jaded/clinical/detached -- due to frequency of exposure, and sometimes by necessity to remain efficient and objective in jobs of that nature.

I don't make false absurd claims that because I, as an outsider, find something distasteful that it is therefore "almost criminal". That's ignorant.

I understand that you, Maggot, choose to stick by your odd statement claiming that you don't oppose abortion on moral grounds until 8 weeks into the pregnancy. BUT, for whatever reason, you do oppose it after 8 weeks and you don't care to speak for yourself as to why 8 weeks is your cutoff when the fetus can't feel pain or survive outside the womb for at least 10 weeks thereafter.

Instead, you'd rather deflect and insinuate that people who don't oppose legal abortion and do oppose illegal poaching are somehow less moral and compassionate than you, all whilst predictably inserting a Nazi Germany reference into the discussion - this time with the added bonus of a 'darkie' twist! Morality, you say?

What is the question?

[Blindgreed1]

So to put it into perspective, you'd be okay with all of this if they weren't discussing it as a business transaction (which it is) and remained solemn and maybe said grace and included a blessing for all aborted babies before they had their business lunch? I'm not aware of any profession that includes such practices currently. Should coroners also bless the dead and say a prayer before they perform the tasks they were educated and trained to perform? How about doctors in the ER? EMS responders?

As I've said many times, I'm okay with "all of this", period. It wasn't illegal, babies were not killed for their parts or tissue, and using the aborted tissue for stem cell research is a very good thing. I can't make it any clearer than that for you, Maggot.

While I sometimes also find it distasteful when nurses and doctors talk casually about pain or death in my presence, no - of course I don't expect them to do all of the silly things you suggested.

I understand that people in such businesses sometimes come across as jaded/clinical/detached -- due to frequency of exposure, and sometimes by necessity to remain efficient and objective in jobs of that nature.

I don't make false absurd claims that because I, as an outsider, find something distasteful that it is therefore "almost criminal". That's ignorant.

I understand that you, Maggot, choose to stick by your odd statement claiming that you don't oppose abortion on moral grounds until 8 weeks into the pregnancy. BUT, for whatever reason, you do oppose it after 8 weeks and you don't care to speak for yourself as to why 8 weeks is your cutoff when the fetus can't feel pain or survive outside the womb for at least 10 weeks thereafter.

Instead, you'd rather deflect and insinuate that people who don't oppose legal abortion and do oppose illegal poaching are somehow less moral and compassionate than you, all whilst predictably inserting a Nazi Germany reference into the discussion - this time with the added bonus of a 'darkie' twist! Morality, you say?

What is the question?

Is it true that women can't get pregnant if you do it standing up?

[HairOfTheDog]

I answered the questions you posed (I'm assuming to me) in the quoted post, Maggot.

I'm not asking you any more sincere questions here though, you're a one-way street.

Knucklehead.

[Maggot]

I don't know what point you're trying to make Maggot because you're all over the map, literally and figuratively.

As I posted upthread, it's a fact that the majority of abortions in the U.S. are performed on white women, Maggot. It's not a matter of "depending on who does the numbers".

The racial comparison graphics you posted are for specific states and cities, not nationwide.

It is however true that black women are more than 3x as likely to end an unintended pregnancy with abortion as compared to women of other races, so the percentage of black abortions is disproportionately high as compared to the black percentage of the total U.S. population.

Anyway, you sound confused. You think low-income blacks should complain because they have a choice to have abortions (at PP) rather than produce unwanted children (which in many cases, would result in a government-funded welfare payout for years and years instead)?

The welfare payout may be worth it. but we will never know, they are dead.
You, Maggot, don't think all abortion is murder (that's what you posted upthread),

did I call it murder or did I call it murder after 10 weeks, look back
but you think black people should see it as murder for some reason?

I believe everyone should see it as murder after 8-10 weeks



I will answer any question put forth passionate one.

[Maggot]

I answered the questions you posed (I'm assuming to me) in the quoted post, Maggot.

I'm not asking you any more sincere questions here though, you're a one-way street.

Knucklehead.

I love you too

[HairOfTheDog]

You've aborted my sincere interest in your answer to the question I asked you and referenced many times.

It doesn't matter whether you deign to answer it or not; I think I have a good idea of where you really stand already.

My passion is obviously slightly greater in scope than my patience for unending bullshit, Doc.

[Duchess]

So much love. I can feel it. Or maybe that's desire I'm feeling.

[Maggot]

You've aborted my sincere interest in your answer to the question I asked you and referenced many times already.

I really don't know which question you want answered. There were many.........





It doesn't matter whether you deign to answer it or not.

My passion is slightly greater in scope than my patience, Doc.

[Jimbone]

So much love. I can feel it. Or maybe that's desire I'm feeling.

Maybe.

[HairOfTheDog]

I asked you one question Maggot.

The "so many' other things that I've posted have been in response to questions and scenarios you posed to me.

If you missed the question/point over and over, there is no sense pointing it out again and I'm seriously no longer curious to hear your reasoning.

Tis cool, mister.

[Maggot]

You want me in Cars and Users crazy insomnia thread don't you!

[HairOfTheDog]

I like you and always look forward to reading your posts, in this thread and all the others Maggot.

However, I'm not an insomniac and following someone going in circles doesn't keep me awake and alert.

So, I won't do it past the point where the ROI is negative and I start yawning. That's me being responsible for my own participation, not wishing to limit or direct yours. That's all.

[HairOfTheDog]

This is the content summary of the latest version of the bill to essentially redefine "late term abortion" (with exceptions) . If passed, this bill would make it illegal to abort after 20 weeks (instead of the current 24 week cut off).

Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - Amends the federal criminal code to prohibit any person from performing or attempting to perform an abortion except in conformity with this Act's requirements.

Requires the physician to first determine the probable post-fertilization age of the unborn child, or reasonably rely upon such a determination made by another physician, by making inquiries of the pregnant woman and performing such medical examinations and tests as a reasonably prudent physician would consider necessary.

Prohibits the abortion from being performed if the probable post-fertilization age of the unborn child is 20 weeks or greater, except: (1) where necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, illness, or injury, excluding psychological or emotional conditions; or (2) where the pregnancy is the result of rape, or the result of incest against a minor, if the rape has been reported at any time prior to the abortion to an appropriate law enforcement agency, or if the incest has been reported at any time prior to the abortion to an appropriate law enforcement agency or to a government agency legally authorized to act on reports of child abuse or neglect.

Permits a physician to terminate a pregnancy under such an exception only in the manner that provides the best opportunity for the unborn child to survive, unless that manner would pose a greater risk than other available methods would pose of the death or substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function, excluding psychological or emotional conditions, of the pregnant woman.

Subjects individuals who violate this Act to a fine, imprisonment for not more than five years, or both. Bars prosecution of a woman upon whom an abortion is performed in violation of this Act for violating or conspiring to violate this Act.

Defines "abortion" to mean the use or prescription of any instrument, medicine, drug, or any other substance or device to intentionally kill an unborn child or to intentionally terminate a pregnancy with an intention other than: (1) after viability, to produce a live birth and preserve the life and health of the child; or (2) to remove a dead unborn child.

[BlueTiki]

Honestly, I don't understand why this would be considered unreasonable.

How long does it take to determine you don't want the parasite growing inside you?

That blueberry is quickly becoming a salamander . . .

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't consider it unreasonable either Tiki.

I understand why some pro-choice advocates would object, though. There is already law regulating abortions. I could see pro-choice advocates objecting on grounds of "slippery slope".

Slippery slope is a valid concern in this case, given that GOP presidential candidates have all declared that they believe abortion should be banned altogether based on their religious and "moral" beliefs, and they've threatened to shutdown the government in order to de-fund PP.

For me, however, opposing change and compromise based only on slippery slope rationale is weak. Just because one side makes a reasonable concession, doesn't mean they're gonna get trampled upon from there on out or that that they've "lost". It's not an all or nothing prospect unless one side stops fighting passionately for what they believe is right. Sometimes, often, willingness to compromise and change is a sign of intelligence and strength, not defeat (though, in reality, it may also require the compromising side to fight harder in order to stand their new ground) - in my opinion.

Anyway, it's GOP-initiated legislation, but it has some Democrat support as well. It'll be interesting to see where it goes.

[sally]

I believe everyone should see it as murder after 8-10 weeks



I will answer any question put forth passionate one.

What about in cases of severe birth defects that can't be detected until the 16^th week, like Trisomy 18 for example? Would you still consider it murder or make an exception in those cases?

[Maggot]

I believe everyone should see it as murder after 8-10 weeks



I will answer any question put forth passionate one.

What about in cases of severe birth defects that can't be detected until the 16^th week, like Trisomy 18 for example? Would you still consider it murder or make an exception in those cases?

Trisomy 18, also known as Edwards syndrome, is a condition which is caused by a error in cell division, known as meiotic disjunction. When this happens, instead of the normal pair, an extra chromosome 18 results (a triple) in the developing baby and disrupts the normal pattern of development in significant ways that can be life-threatening, even before birth. A Trisomy 18 error occurs in about 1 out of every 2500 pregnancies in the United States, about in about 1 in 6000 live births. The numbers of total births is much higher because it includes significant numbers of stillbirths that occur in the 2^nd and 3^rd trimesters of pregnancy.

Purple ChromosomeUnlike Down syndrome, which also is caused by an extra chromosome, the developmental issues caused by Trisomy 18 are associated with more medical complications that are more potentially life-threatening in the early months and years of life. Studies have shown that only 50% of babies who are carried to term will be born alive, and baby girls will have higher rates of live birth than baby boys.

At birth, intensive care admissions in Neonatal Intensive Care Units (NICU’s) are routine for infants with Trisomy 18. Again, baby boys will experience higher mortality rates in this neonatal period than baby girls, although those with higher birth weights do better across all categories.

Some infants will be able to survive to be discharged from the hospital with home nursing support to assist with care by the parents. And although 10 percent or more may survive to their first birthdays, there are children with Trisomy 18 that can enjoy many years of life with their families, reaching milestones and being involved with their community. A small number of adults (usually girls) with Trisomy 18 have and are living into their twenties and thirties, although with significant developmental delays that do not allow them to live independently without full time caregiving.
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I would not expect a child or Mother to have to go through this type of hell on earth life. .....abort.....abort......abort.