SAUDI ARABIA & THE DISAPPEARANCE OF JOURNALIST JAMAL KHASHOGGI

[Duchess]

'Defending freedom of expression and a free press are key priorities for Germany, the United Kingdom and France‎. The threatening, attacking or killing of journalists, under any circumstances, is unacceptable and of utmost concern to our three nations.'

'We thus stress that more efforts are needed and expected towards establishing the truth in a comprehensive, transparent and credible manner.

There was a time our country would have been included in that statement. Now, our leader is a goddamn moron and an international laughingstock. Sad mad!

[Duchess]

He has referred to his 40 yr. old son in much the same way.

[Duchess]

Oopsie. Failure to quote Rootilda. *sigh*

[Fry Guy]

I have been letting facts come out before throwing my opinion out there.
Saudis lied boldfaced. They did not think there would be any push back against their authoritarianism and when there was, they deflected and panicked. They lied when they thought that could work and then they told less incredulous lies when they did not work.
Trump should do EXACTLY the same to them as he does with Russia.
* Expel diplomats
* Place sanctions on them
* Seek to strengthen any interest that runs counter to their wishes and in US's favour.
But keep saying nice things and allowing them to see that he is prepared to work cooperatively but will not be pushed around via his real actions.

[HairOfTheDog]

'Defending freedom of expression and a free press are key priorities for Germany, the United Kingdom and France‎. The threatening, attacking or killing of journalists, under any circumstances, is unacceptable and of utmost concern to our three nations.'

'We thus stress that more efforts are needed and expected towards establishing the truth in a comprehensive, transparent and credible manner.

There was a time our country would have been included in that statement. Now, our leader is a goddamn moron and an international laughingstock. Sad mad!

It will be interesting to see how Turkish President Erdogan plays his hand tomorrow and how President Trump responds.

Erdogan will definitely have the world's ear when he officially addresses the evidence gathered by Turkish intelligence and LE.

A new piece of evidence was released through Turkish media today.  It reportedly shows one of the Saudi officials who was at the consulate outside the building in Khashoggi's clothes and wearing a fake beard after Khashoggi was attacked.  



The real Khashoggi entering the consulate (left) and the Saudi impostor leaving the consulate later that day (right).  According to the report, the impostor was also wearing Khashoggi's Apple watch.

The Saudi official looks like Khashoggi from a distance, but obviously wouldn't fool Khashoggi's fiancee (who was waiting outside for him to return -- likely much to the surprise of the Saudi squad, in my opinion).

Story:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...asses.html

[HairOfTheDog]

Erdogan gave his much-touted 'naked truth' speech today.  

--The Turkish president publicly tore down Saudi claims that the dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi died in a fight in its Istanbul consulate, making fresh allegations that his “savage” murder was premeditated and calling for an independent investigation in Turkey.

--He said he was not satisfied with Riyadh’s suggestion that the killing was a rogue extradition operation gone wrong, and called for the “highest ranked” of those responsible to be brought to justice.

--“Intelligence and security institutions have evidence showing the murder was planned … Pinning such a case on some security and intelligence members will not satisfy us or the international community,” he said. “From the person who gave the order, to the person who carried it out, they must all be brought to account,” he said.

[HairOfTheDog]

--Contrary to expectations Erdoğan’s first update on the three-week-old case did not officially reveal the existence of audio and video evidence understood to be in Turkey’s possession. (Note: U.S. CIA Director Gina Haspel is currently in Turkey, reportedly to view the purported evidence first hand.)

--Erdogan did not specifically call out Saudi crown prince Mohammed bin Salman, who it is believed was probably aware of and possibly even ordered the silencing of his prominent critic. It is therefore likely that the speech will be welcomed by the Trump administration, which has made MBS the keystone of its Middle East policy.

--The gaps in the speech also suggest Erdoğan has more cards to play in the evolving diplomatic crisis.

-- Yesterday, Turkey released CCTV footage showing a Saudi official posing as Khashoggi leaving the consulate, an apparent attempt to hide the fact that Khashoggi was killed inside by fooling eye witnesses and surveillance cams.

-- Turkish officials also claimed they have phone records showing multiple calls between the Saud Squad and MBS's office while Khashoggi was inside the consulate.

Refs:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/o...gi-killing
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/calls...ggi-killed

[HairOfTheDog]

I'm very curious to find out what CIA Director Gina Haspel learned in Turkey this week.



CIA Director Gina Haspel has reportedly listened to an audio recording purporting to capture Jamal Khashoggi being interrogated and murdered by Saudi officials.

Haspel was played the recording by Turkish investigators after being sent to Istanbul to review evidence around the journalist's killing.

Haspel is now due to brief President Trump on the evidence as the President mulls how to punish Saudi Arabia - one of America's closest allies.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has announced that 21 Saudi officials will have their visas revoked in response to the scandal, though tougher sanctions are expected. 

Congress has triggered a probe that could result in human rights-related sanctions.

Refs:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...hoggi.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat...5de4235574

[Duchess]

Jamal's fiance has declined an invitation from trump to visit the White House. She said he's not sincere in investigating Jamal's murder.

[Love Child]

Maybe Jamal would have been better protected if there were armed guards in the consolute.

[HairOfTheDog]

Status

Saudi investigators admitted last week that Khashoggi's death was the result of a premeditated murder, not an accident resulting from a fight or botched kidnapping.  

However, they haven't been very cooperative with Turkish investigators, haven't ponied up the remains, and haven't provided any information about the "Turkish operative" who they claimed took the remains.

Meanwhile, Turkey keeps pushing the Saudis for cooperation.  The Turks want the intelligence/security suspects identified by the Saudis extradited to Turkey for prosecution.  I doubt that will happen.

For the first time today, Turkish prosecutors made a public statement.  They say Jamal was strangled as soon as he entered the building.  

“The victim’s body was dismembered and destroyed following his death by suffocation,” Wednesday’s statement also said, bolstering Turkish investigators’ line of thought that Khashoggi’s remains could have been disposed of at the nearby consul general’s house, dissolved in acid or dumped in a well on the property.

Ref:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/o...r-confirms

[Duchess]

The Saudis aren't paying any price for Jamal's murder. Hell, the president of the United States provided cover for them.

[HairOfTheDog]

The Saudis aren't paying any price for Jamal's murder. Hell, the president of the United States provided cover for them.

They don't seem to be paying a significant price in terms of money at this time.  

But, Jamal's murder has put a global spotlight on Saudi Arabia's human rights' abuses within the country, under the supposedly 'progressive' regime of MBS.

And, there is finally growing pressure on the U.S. (from Republicans, Dems, and Independents -- inside and outside of Congress) to stop backing the Saudis' attacks in Yemen, which have led to terrible human rights abuses there.  

The Saudis are blocking off aide channels as Yemeni civilians are starving and being killed in Saudi strikes.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/...r-in-yemen

Hopefully, some good will come of the terrible murder of Jamal Khashoggi.

[Ski at 1SKY6]

Hopefully, some good will come of the terrible murder of Jamal Khashoggi.

I doubt it. I think this is a new way of enforcing the will of the Saudis who are in control. In the past, a fatwa would be declared and it was open for all to see. That may not play well anymore and now a more clandestine approach has been undertaken. I see a news event out of NYC which may be evidence of that. There were 2 Saudi sisters who upon seeking asylum in the US were found drowned in the Hudson River. They were duct taped at their wrists and waist and ankles and facing each other. Police have suggested a suicide bond they carried out. If you look at the preceding circumstances of their lives, no one would conclude suicide.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...ed-up.html

[HairOfTheDog]

I read about the Saudi sisters whose bodies were recovered in the Hudson River last month, Ski. Very sad story.

It seems most likely, to me, that they did commit suicide. They had moved from Saudi Arabia to live with their mom in 2015, they were removed from mom's care amid accusations of abuse, and they had run out of money.

They reportedly told friends that they'd rather die than be sent back to Saudi Arabia and were seen praying by the river before they disappeared.

There were no signs of foul play/trauma. But, the investigation is ongoing and COD is still pending. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world...16371.html

[HairOfTheDog]

The CIA has reviewed the evidence and the audio tapes provided by Turkey and reportedly determined that Saudi crown prince MBS ordered Jamal Kashoggi's murder.

The evidence shows that Kashoggi was murdered and dismembered at the Saudi consulate in Turkey and that the murder was premeditated.

The Saudi investigators contend that members of the government acted without approval MBS and Saudi prosecutors announced earlier this week that the death penalty (public beheading in Saudia Arabia) would be sought from five of the 17 men involved.

[HairOfTheDog]

On Thursday, the U.S. announced sanctions on 17 Saudi individuals allegedly involved in Khashoggi's death. President Trump has resisted blaming MBS for Khashoggi's death. He has cited the importance of the Saudis in countering the influence of Iran in the region, as well as future military sales by U.S. defense contractors.

I sincerely hope Trump and company cut ties with MBS. He's not someone upon whom the United States should be dependent for anything. It's insanely brazen and reckless to order a murder and then allow five men who followed those orders to face beheading and feign innocence.

Funeral prayers were held today in Istanbul for journalist Khashoggi, more more than a month after his slaying. Khashoggi’s friends, Turkish politicians and others attended funeral prayers at Istanbul’s Fatih Mosque. The prayers were held “in absentia” because The Washington Post columnist’s remains still have not been found. :(

Refs:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jamal-khash...018-11-16/
https://apnews.com/57c5a961d6fe4cd7bd58398e2d42b579
https://www.foxnews.com/world/cia-determ...man-report

[Fry Guy]

One Turkish nobody vs all dealing s with one of the world biggest power players on the world stage?

Yes and no.

Democrats and Progressives have a stupid and retarded tendency do play hard and fast or loose and slow with definitions and logical steps.

Only a complete idiot would think that the knee jerk reaction to this tragedy is to politically isolate and sanction the Saudi Price over this incident. But many idiots will suggest this. Anyone with any sense will say that this is a powderkeg and has to be treated with kid gloves. There has been a HUGE shake up in the House of Saud. now there is a slight touch of stability and it finally aligns with America's interests. Now this occurs and DO WE KNOW that the Price was involved? No. We do not BUT we know there was a LOT of ambiguity about who knew what and by who's orders what was done.

No this man's death should NOT be cast aside as an inconvenience but it would be foolhardy to pretend to have access to facts that we do not have.

Personally I am inclined to think the Prince is an entitled piece of shit and ordered this. BUT I don't know. I suspect that a bit of relationship "cooling" and slowing of transactions is better than sanctions. The former says we no longer have grounds to trust you and the latter says you are guilty.

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, Trump and Pompeo have made it clear that even though all evidence points to MBS ordering the brutal murder of Washington Post journalist Jamal Kashoggi, the U.S. isn't going to take further action against Saudi Arabia ('we are staying with Saudia Arabia').

The CIA and international intelligence contend that MBS ordered the hit.  But, Trump says, "maybe he did, maybe he didn't, maybe we'll never know".  Well, we already know he did, even if our President pretends otherwise.  Anyway, Trump says he won't support the punitive actions Congress is recommending.

The rationale:  The President and Secretary of State believe Iran is worse than Saudi Arabia.  And, Trump negotiated deals with MBS/Saudi Arabia, though the associated  dollar value ($400 billion) and number of jobs (hundreds of thousands) touted by Trump is not confirmed.  

Punitive action should be taken against MBS, in my opinion.  Getting into bed with that guy and tying our country's Middle East strategy to him personally is really ill-advised, plus it sends a dangerous message to leaders around the world; brazen human rights and press/free speech violations will be overlooked by the U.S. for the right price.

[Duchess]

He believes the Saudis over the CIA and stands with them. He believes Putin over the CIA and stands with him. And the GOP continues to remain silent.