SAUDI ARABIA & THE DISAPPEARANCE OF JOURNALIST JAMAL KHASHOGGI

[HairOfTheDog]

He believes the Saudis over the CIA and stands with them. He believes Putin over the CIA and stands with him. And the GOP continues to remain silent. 

Maybe your right.

Personally, I think it's more likely that Trump does not believe them. 

 I think he pretends to believe them for personal reasons, and he knows from experience that his base will believe the lies if he says they're true (despite the evidence).

[Duchess]

I think it's more likely that Trump does not believes them.

Given he was offered the opportunity to review the evidence and declined because it was "terrible" and a "suffering tape" I would say you're probably right.

It's sickening what he has done. He has made journalists the world over less safe. Our country has sunk so low, we used to be a moral beacon, people looked up to us, now they're happy not to be us.

[BigMark]

Instead of making up a story and lying about it, Trump admitted it was in our interests not to do anything that would affect hundreds of millions of people over one death. It's called being callous and pragmatic.

[HairOfTheDog]

Instead of making up a story and lying about it, Trump admitted it was in our interests not to do anything that would affect hundreds of millions of people over one death. It's called being callous and pragmatic.

Trump's not being any more honest than Presidents before him who have given Saudi Arabia a pass on human rights violations, even when the Saudis have cost the lives of American citizens and U.S. residents.

But Trump is publicly undermining his own intelligence agencies, defying Congress, feigning ignorance, endangering journalists, and giving a pass to a young defacto leader who has proven to be a fatally reckless ruler and a bad/bald-faced liar. 

MBS is not the man to whom the U.S. should hitch its wagon; I don't care if Kushner and Trump have invested a couple of years propping and buddying up to MBS.  This particular crown prince is a  dangerous loose cannon and the U.S. will pay the price for enabling him, in my opinion.

Anyway, I don't think the U.S. should cut off all ties to Saudi Arabia - that might impact hundreds of millions of people.  I do think the U.S. should denounce MBS for what objective experts and observers are confident he did, and cultivate a relationship with a better/wiser Saudi leader with whom to partner in regards to Middle Eastern policy.

[BigMark]

and that is what america needs, not sound bites, not global warming that became climate change, not y2k, killer bees and all the other bullshit. america fucking first all the time everytime.

[HairOfTheDog]

Trump's statements on the matter have been nothing but sound bites Biggie.

And, I've never understood your obsession with global warming being encompassed into the broader 'climate change' category. The climate is definitely changing and the impacts are being felt globally.

I hope you're not a climate change denier. Climate change deniers not only think they're smarter than 90+% of the world's greatest scientists, they refuse to believe their own eyes.

Anyhow, I don't support Trump's "America first, all the time" rhetoric and focus. Yes, the leaders of the U.S. should obviously always consider the U.S.'s best interests as top priority. Sometimes that means compromising and partnering with other countries when addressing shared problems and goals. It doesn't mean adopting a default 'take it or leave it!' isolationist policy and prioritizing personal/financial gain over smart, diplomatic, and strategic foreign relations.

[Duchess]

I hope you're not a climate change denier.  Climate change deniers not only think they're smarter than 90+% of the world's greatest scientists, they refuse to believe their own eyes.

He's not the only one in Mock. I've seen someone else say it's all bullshit, the scientists are lying and are motivated by money. Yup, Mock has climate change deniers.

[ZEROSPHERES]

and that is what america needs, not sound bites, not global warming that became climate change, not y2k, killer bees and all the other bullshit. america fucking first all the time everytime.

Sieg Heil

[Maggot]

My climate has changed dramatically over the past few days. It will be about 10 deg tonight. This is really cold weather early.

[Maggot]

IDK the Saudis should be held accountable but the entire region should not be tossed into turmoil because of his death either. Drop the bomb, stop the war or don't drop the bomb and continue it. A tough choice for a tough President.

[Rootilda]

The toughest motherfucker to ever hold office.

[Rootilda]

Oh, wait...

[Fry Guy]

What I want to know (and it should be a VERY easy answer) IF Trump's approach was wrong, then what was the correct one?

In answering you MUST factor in following:

At present two of the biggest players in the region Saudi Arabia and Iran are warring each other.
The House of Saudi has just gone through a coup and shake up
Trump has just arranged a huge in oil prices from $87US a barrel to $54US
Trump has arranged huge arms deals worth bazillion to the US.
The Prince is a young and new world leader. A spoiled and entitled prat and probably more than a little immoral. He could be asked to explain himself a billion times and will NEVER admit to being personally involved in the assassination. He did not even wish to have to concede there was an assassination. World pressure has tipped his hand.
Further destabilization or making enemies of the few allies makes no sense.
It is possible to appreciate the horror and gravity of the situation without calling the Prince a liar and rejecting their mutually beneficial alliance and calling him a liar, continually demanding he address what he has addressed, sanctioning, backing out of deals or withdrawing support will do EXACTLY that.
Furthermore, after sending crates of cash to Iran despite their actions against America, such efforts to poke the Prince in the eye will be seen as valuing Iran over Saudi Arabia.

You get to choose your poison but do not pretend none of these thing matter or that America's role is the morality police or the World police.

[Duchess]

trump could stand on 5^th Avenue, watch someone being tortured, murdered and chopped into pieces and his cult followers will find ways to justify it.

[Fry Guy]

trump could stand on 5^th Avenue, watch someone being tortured, murdered and chopped into pieces and his cult followers will find ways to justify it.

Duchess, see my above statement given all of that, what is the correct response. Come up with a realistic alternative that meets the challenges that are set out and I will support it. Unfortunately it is not enough to say Trump is wrong. You Kind of need to illustrate what he could have done that is better and why

[Duchess]

Duchess, see my above statement given all of that, what is the correct response. Come up with a realistic alternative that meets the challenges that are set out and I will support it. Unfortunately it is not enough to say Trump is wrong. You Kind of need to illustrate what he could have done that is better and why

I don't have to illustrate what he could have done better & why. If we had qualified people working in this administration things may have been done the right way. No one, and I mean no one who is qualified wants to work in this administration. trump is a pussy, he's a coward. Things could have been handled in the proper manner but they weren't. trump is cuddling up to dictators, wave some cash at him and he'll overlook even murder. He's a pathetic joke who is being laughed at by leaders across the world. He doesn't have a fuckin' clue about one goddamn thing.

[Fry Guy]

Proper manner?
Well there we go. You have no idea what the proper manner is and have no alternative to offer. In fact the ONLY two reasons you are really objecting is that it is Trump and anything that he does is bad

[Duchess]

trump turned a blind eye to the murder & dismemberment of a United States resident. That's the bottom line.

[Fry Guy]

trump turned a blind eye to the murder & dismemberment of a United States resident. That's the bottom line.

Bottom lines are not dishonest.

The Bottom line is that he in NO way "turned a blind eye" and you and everyone else knows this. The bottom line is that the outcome was NOT what you wanted and his actions were not as you would have liked.

Maybe you are thinking "Well fuck me! I am a US citizen and what if I go holidaying and some world leader decides that I am to be tortured and chopped up, I would fucking hope something would be done and that the world leaders would not get away with it". I couldn't call that unreasonable.

The truth is he did not ignore it but you did not like his ultimate response. You don't have to but it is dishonest to say he turned a blind eye to it. He took in the facts and was appalled and waited until the facts were in and once they were all in took stock of his options.

The options were not great AND had to be factored against:

At present two of the biggest players in the region Saudi Arabia and Iran are warring each other.
The House of Saudi has just gone through a coup and shake up
Trump has just arranged a huge in oil prices from $87US a barrel to $54US
Trump has arranged huge arms deals worth bazillion to the US.
The Prince is a young and new world leader. A spoiled and entitled prat and probably more than a little immoral. He could be asked to explain himself a billion times and will NEVER admit to being personally involved in the assassination. He did not even wish to have to concede there was an assassination. World pressure has tipped his hand.
Further destabilization or making enemies of the few allies makes no sense.
It is possible to appreciate the horror and gravity of the situation without calling the Prince a liar and rejecting their mutually beneficial alliance and calling him a liar, continually demanding he address what he has addressed, sanctioning, backing out of deals or withdrawing support will do EXACTLY that.
Furthermore, after sending crates of cash to Iran despite their actions against America, such efforts to poke the Prince in the eye will be seen as valuing Iran over Saudi Arabia.

You get to choose your poison but do not pretend none of these thing matter or that America's role is the morality police or the World police.

Again It would be complete dishonesty to say he turned a blind eye. Completely reasonable to say you think he ultimate actions were bad or weak or cowardly or pathetic or stupid or evil or unpatriotic or unpresidential or whatever. That is fine BUT then given the above, what COULD he have done better.

You get to pick your poison but if this is more than a dismissive "I hate everything Trump because I hate everything Trump" kind of position, you get to say "He was wrong because he would have been better doing X" AND then given all I quoted above counter how a different handling would have been better given the above.

In saying this, to me it is like the whole Putin/Trump meetings.
"Did he ask about Russia election tampering?"
"Yes and Putin denied it"
"Well did he only ask it once or did he press him on it?"
"No he raised it twice and Putin denied it. So we moved on"
"Well did he say cut it out?"
"No. Putin denied it and there was nothing more to be gained in bringing it up a third time and we were not there solely to talk about whether he did or did not interfere in the election"
"Did Trump believe him?"
"Doesn't matter either way, there was nothing to be gained"

It is stupid. If the media and the Anti-Trump folk had their way, US would isolate themselves from, refuse to work with and actively incite and fight against Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Russia, China, North Korea and seek to intimidate spoil and bully these countries and when he did and everything turned to shit after "standing up to them", they would blame him for destroying the world and the US.

To be part of an international community AND look after your country you need to sometimes work with leaders you do not like and policies with are distasteful and have to carefully pick your hills to die on, acknowledging the consequences of choosing these last stands.

Its infantile.

[BigMark]

I have heard he was considered a spy.