ANOTHER PLANE CRASH

[Mohammed]

Apparently they found something in his room at his parents house. Anybody who is in a cockpit and lives with his parents is utterly dodgy if you ask me!

They should put that on any pilot application form really. "Do you live with your parents?"

"Yes"

"Then do go and fuck yourself. Thank you for your interest."

And fuck him too!

[aussiefriend]

I fucking hate flying.

[Duchess]

The chances of this happening to you is one in a billion so don't worry, just try it.

I used to fly frequently. Breakfast at home, lunch with my parents, I would fly for work and for pleasure and then for the first time in my life I began to have panic attacks. I'd be waiting to board and envision my plane crashing. I'd usually be able to pull myself together but one day I couldn't and that was the end of my flying. The only thing I've missed doing is going to the Canary Islands with girlfriends, other than that I haven't much cared that I'm missing out on some excellent adventures.

[Carsman]

Investigators removed what they have deemed "a signifcant discovery" from Lubitz's Dusseldorf apartment.

They're not providing details, only saying that it's being sent for testing and could help explain his actions. They did, however, confirm that it wasn't a suicide note.

Here's a graphic depiction and timeline for what investigators believe went down in the cockpit.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ences.html

Unfortunately or fortunately, the outcome of this tragedy shows that the new "reinforced cockpit door" 911 requirement definitely works.

[HairOfTheDog]

Unfortunately or fortunately, the outcome of this tragedy shows that the new "reinforced cockpit door" 911 requirement definitely works.

Yeah, overall, I think the pros of the extra security surrounding the cockpit door outweigh the cons.

It's much easier to screen and monitor the few employees who pilot the planes from the cockpit than it is to predict the intents and actions of the hundreds of strangers sitting in the cabin. Still, even with the best security, people are unpredictable and it's nearly impossible to guard against every possible act of human depravity like the one allegedly committed by the copilot in this case. I do feel strongly that there should be more than one person in the cockpit at all times, though.

In any event, if the French prosecutor's narrative is accurate, Lubitz should not have been in the cockpit at all, obviously. Lufthansa put him there and the airline has very strong motivation to claim he was 100% fit for flight; lots of potential liability on its shoulders.

Maybe the 100% fit claim is true on paper, and this is just a case of a guy with serious issues which he effectively kept hidden from his employer and everybody else -- I doubt it though.

I think we'll learn that Lubitz had problematic personality characteristics and/or mental and emotional issues that at least some other people knew about and required treatment. If so and the airline knew (or should have known), it's gonna be a big problem for Lufthansa and hopefully prompt all airlines to examine their pilot screening and monitoring processes and tighten them.

I don't wanna see people who seek treatment getting discriminated against or stigmatized and I generally support rights to individual privacy. But, for some professions the safety concerns of the public have to be the highest priority (IMO) -- don't like it, don't become a pilot.

Anyway, right now, to me, this looks more likely to be a case of a highly disgruntled man who acted out of personal and professional despair/grudges than a case of a fundamentalist Islamic convert out to make a political or religious statement.

I'm anxious to learn what investigators uncovered during their physical searches of Lubitz's apartment and parents' home.

[username]

Torn up medical notes excusing him from work, last time I heard.

No indication whether his "condition" was physical or mental.

The "always have two people in the cockpit" is a no-brainer. I'm glad it's already policy here.

[HairOfTheDog]

New Information About the Suspected Co-Pilot


^ Lubitz was an avid jogger and was interested in flying since childhood. He started taking lessons as a young teen.

It seems the significant discovery found by police at Lubitz's apartment yesterday was a bunch of ripped up medical notes; it's not been revealed whether the condition for which he was seeking treatment was physical or mental.

New Details Released by the Prosecutor this Morning
• 8:01 a.m.: The fact that Lubitz appears to have ripped up recent medical leave notes "leads to the preliminary conclusion that the deceased kept his illness secret from his employer and his professional environment."

• 8:01 a.m.: The prosecutor's office did not say if the medical leave note related to a physical or a mental health issue but said Lubitz appeared to have been under treatment by a doctor for some time.

• 8:01 a.m.: The medical leave notes issued by a doctor for Lubitz included the day of the crash, the Dusseldorf public prosecutor's office said.

• 9:23 a.m.: Lufthansa, together with other German airlines, has announced the immediate introduction of new rules for the cockpit. It will now be a requirement for there to be two authorized people in the cockpit at all times.

Source: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/27/europe/fra...index.html

ETA: Sorry, user, posting at the same time.

[username]

HotD says what I said...but so much better.

[Duchess]

HotD says what I said...but so much better.

She does that to me too.

I don't ever want to have to argue with her. She'll beat me down with calm logic to the point where all I want to do is hollar FuckYouFuckYouFuckYou. Donovan is the same way.

[username]

HotD says what I said...but so much better.

She does that to me too.

I don't ever want to have to argue with her. She'll beat me down with calm logic to the point where all I want to do is hollar FuckYouFuckYouFuckYou. Donovan is the same way.

We could always bump the Bill Cosby thread.

[Duchess]

*snicker*

[Carsman]

HotD says what I said...but so much better.

She does that to me too.

I don't ever want to have to argue with her. She'll beat me down with calm logic to the point where all I want to do is hollar FuckYouFuckYouFuckYou. Donovan is the same way.

Thus the X's 40 awhile back!

[Duchess]

Heh. She's a very bright woman and she backs her stuff up with facts. Nothing phases her...ever!

[HairOfTheDog]

I really wanna know if Lubitz had a serious physical illness or instead a mental illness -- it doesn't change the terribleness of killing 149 other people, but I'm very curious.

Gotta think the investigators already know; they would have called the doctor or medical facility immediately after finding the torn up notices and had authority to get the information.

If they do know, they're not saying.

The latest:
-10:57 a.m.: A letter found in a waste bin in Lubitz's apartment indicated he "was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work," Dusseldorf prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said.

-11:49 a.m.: Germanwings says it didn't receive a sick note for the day of the flight.

Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/27/europe...index.html


I don't know if the doctor would have been responsible for telling the employer or if instead communicating that information was prohibited by privacy laws in Germany.

One thing's for sure, Lufthansa's assessment of Lubitz being 100% fit for flight was flat-out wrong or tragically outdated.

[Duchess]

The latest:
-10:57 a.m.: A letter found in a waste bin in Lubitz's apartment indicated he "was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work," Dusseldorf prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said.

I hope there is a lot of discussion about this here and everywhere for that matter. As you know, there are strict privacy laws here but something needs to be in place when it concerns pilots and others who are responsible for the safety & welfare of the public. This is crazy that he was allowed in a cockpit and no one was the wiser.

[blueberryhill]

I really wanna know if Lubitz had a serious physical illness or instead a mental illness -- it doesn't change the terribleness of killing 149 other people, but I'm very curious.

Gotta think the investigators already know; they would have called the doctor or medical facility immediately after finding the torn up notices and had authority to get the information.

If they do know, they're not saying.

The latest:
-10:57 a.m.: A letter found in a waste bin in Lubitz's apartment indicated he "was declared by a medical doctor unfit to work," Dusseldorf prosecutor Christoph Kumpa said.

-11:49 a.m.: Germanwings says it didn't receive a sick note for the day of the flight.

Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/27/europe...index.html


I don't know if the doctor would have been responsible for telling the employer or if instead communicating that information was prohibited by privacy laws in Germany.

One thing's for sure, Lufthansa's assessment of Lubitz being 100% fit for flight was flat-out wrong or tragically outdated.

Any information I have is probably so outdated, but back in the day, we had a specific airline doctor. He had to O.K. you for flight status or if you were ill, had to provide documentation, etc. and you were either grounded or "fit to return to duty." We had to have periodic physical exams and we took all of the psychological tests popular in the day.....like any crazy person could make themselves look normal. Like today, we always figure we will recognize the mentally unstable. Just not true and that is why I keep saying they walk among us and it is pure luck that we don't come face to face with them while they are carrying their handguns in their belts.....but I digress...
If co-pilot had seen airline doctor, that doctor would have immediately notified airline. So, this leads me to believe he was seeing a private doctor for whatever......but most likely mental health issues. (a guess based on his age)....In my opinion, the airlines should hire full time Psychiatrist to periodically evaluate flight crews mental stability along with full time Physician.

[HairOfTheDog]

Thanks for that insight blueberry. I think it would be ideal if the pilot screening was the same now as when you worked for the airlines -- in every country.

If it was an employment requirement that all pilots undergo regular physical and mental screening periodically by doctors and psychologists who were employed or contracted by the airlines, there would be no privacy law issues in play.

As it stands now, Lufthansa only does regular physical examinations on pilots after they're hired. They don't do separate psych evals. Instead, the physician who does the physical exam simply notes his/her general observations about the pilot's demeanor. It's not enough to ensure maximum safety (though no screening is guaranteed to catch everything, I agree).

Unfortunately, I think the increased costs associated with more frequent and in-depth pilot screening would make it an unattractive prospect for the airlines these days (unless they think passengers would be willing to bear higher ticket prices to absorb some or all of that cost).

[HairOfTheDog]

Medical Privacy Laws & Employment Policy

Doctors in Germany (as in many other countries) are obliged to abide by medical secrecy unless their patient explicitly tells them he or she plans to commit an act of violence.

Employers in Germany do not have the right to ask an employee or his/her doctor for private medical information. It is the responsibility of the employee to tell their superior they are sick, according to a Lufthansa/Germanwings spokesperson.

Lufthansa/Germanwings is responsible for conducting annual medical assessments for their pilots under 40 and bi-annual assessments for those over the age of 40. The airline is, of course, permitted to make employment decisions based on those assessments.

[Duchess]

I just watched some video of the crash site. The only thing up there are shepards. The land is too unforgiving for anything else.

It's being reported that 16 people have been identified so far and it was said that no actual bodies have been found. The term I heard used was pulverized.

[username]

LC would/does totally approve of HotD. This I know. She always brought news reports/actual facts (and acknowledged suppositions too).

Enough acknowledging HotD. She's a cunt but a pretty good cunt, I guess.
Nobody seems to be willing to talk much about his mental health status. Slippery slope IMO. Where do rights of privacy end? Airline pilots? Train operators? Bus/taxi drivers? Ferry operators?

From what I understand HAD the guy self reported, the repercussions on his career might have been enormous. There's pretty much a disincentive in place, in any professional capacity, to self report mental health problems. Not like it's going to fast track you to promotion or a raise or anything.