ABORTION

[F.U.]

Ok, just wondering. I have ben reading our comments to my OL and she is scratching her head at your comments.

[Duchess]

I don't view it as a bad thing for women to have choices. I view it as a right.

[F.U.]

That's where our road Y's. I don't feel anyone has the right to murder. Weather its the terrorist, common criminal, or a woman wanting to kill her unborn child.
Actually I stand corrected. A person convicted of a crime and sentenced to death, now they deserve to die.
Charles Manson, Dillin Roof, Jeffrey Dahmer, people like that.

[HairOfTheDog]

F.U.

The late-term abortion issue you brought up in the Trump thread, and which has been discussed in this thread, is an example of politicians framing with false rhetoric to sway people with emotion.

Late-term abortion is a very small fraction of the abortion issue, though you'd think they were happening left and right if you went only by what some religious leaders and far right politicians claim and other people pick-up and run-with as fact.

Here's a write-up that summarizes the issues we've covered before. These are facts.

1. "Partial-birth abortion" is illegal in the U.S. Politicians who bring up "partial birth abortion" do so because they know it can spur strong and visceral reactions of disgust and moral indignation, not because it's especially relevant to U.S. health care, morals, or laws circa 2016.

2. For 13 years, since 2003, federal law has prohibited physicians from performing D&X procedures, aka partial birth abortions, at any point in a pregnancy. Almost a decade ago, in 2007, the Supreme Court upheld the ban as constitutional. In addition, 19 states have their own laws against these sorts of abortions.

3. While the federal ban does include an exception for situations where the mother's life is endangered, abortion doctors claim they avoid the procedure anyway, as there are other options with less liklihood of legal repercussions.

4. Even before the federal ban, D&X procedures accounted for just 0.2 percent of all abortions, and most of these were performed before the point where a fetus can feel pain or survive on its own outside of the womb.

5. Late-term abortion is illegal in most of the U.S. A typical human pregnancy lasts 38 weeks after an egg is fertilized.

[HairOfTheDog]

6. Only seven states and the District of Columbia allow abortion at any point during a pregnancy, according to reproductive-research org the Guttmacher Institute. In the other 43 states, abortion is banned—with limited exceptions, such as for the safety of the mother—after the second trimester, after the point of fetal viability (when a fetus could live on its own outside the womb), or after a specified number of weeks (generally 20-24). When exceptions are required, many states require two physicians to sign-off on the procedure before it's permissable.

7. Very few U.S. women abort after 20 weeks pregnancy. Even with late-term abortion allowed in some parts of the country and under certain circumstances, nearly all abortions performed in the U.S. happen before the end of the second trimester. According to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data from 2012, 65.8 percent of abortions took place within the first eight weeks of pregnancy, and 91.4 percent occurred within the first 13 weeks.

8. Just 7.2 percent of abortions were performed between 14 and 20 weeks gestation, which means just 1.3 percent of abortions took place at or after 21 weeks pregnancy. And, from 2003 through 2012, the CDC saw a significant shift toward earlier abortions, with the percentage occurring within the first six weeks up 24 percent during the study period. The percentage of abortions occurring at or after 13 weeks, meanwhile, remained relatively consistently throughout the study period and never rose above 9 percent.

9. Late-term abortions are generally a last resort. While abortion opponents push the idea that women get late-term abortions because they change their minds last minute, or just can't be bothered to do it sooner—that they use late-term abortion "as birth control"—getting a surgical abortion is a serious, invasive, and expensive procedure, especially the later in pregnancy it takes place. Pregnancy itself is also quite difficult on women's bodies, and disruptive to their day-to-day lives. To believe there are women routinely putting their bodies through months of unwanted pregnancy, shelling out thousands of dollars, and undergoing serious surgery rather than use condoms or get an IUD or get an earlier abortion or whatever requires believing not just that most women are immoral or irresponsible but also, and simultaneously, wealthy, stupid, and masochistic.

10. Abortion doctors, medical groups, and people who've gotten late-term abortions themselves all attest that these aren't decisions most women or medical professionals take lightly. Abortions procured in the third-trimester generally involve situations where the mother's life or health is in jeopardy, the fetus will die outside of the womb anyway, or the fetus is found to have a severe genetic abnormality that wasn't previously apparent.

http://reason.com/blog/2016/10/21/late-t...erica-2016

[F.U.]

I haven't kept up with this discussion HotD, thanks for the summery.

Partial birth is a topic I have given little thought to.

Knowing that you can hear a heartbeat at just 6-8 weeks makes me feel different as to when the term late term is applied. If it has a heartbeat it is alive in my opinion.

[HairOfTheDog]

I haven't kept up with this discussion HotD, thanks for the summery.

Partial birth is a topic I have given little thought to.

Knowing that you can hear a heartbeat at just 6-8 weeks makes me feel different as to when the term late term is applied. If it has a heartbeat it is alive in my opinion.

You brought up late-term abortion, which encompasses partial-birth abortion.

Anyway, at the point when the fetus registers a heartbeat, the fetus is developing and on life-support, without the capacity to feel pain.

The choice to continue life-support or not should be up to the mother who's providing it, in my opinion.

But, I understand that you see terminating a pregnancy that early on as murder.

[Maggot]

If a woman goes 4 months without a period and thinks she's not pregnant maybe she should be aborted for being so stupid. Just sayin.

[HairOfTheDog]

If a woman goes 4 months without a period and thinks she's not pregnant maybe she should be aborted for being so stupid. Just sayin.

Some women don't have regular monthly periods and it's already been posted many times how very few women have abortions after 20 weeks. Of the small number that do.......none of the doctors or patients cited the reason being that the woman had regular monthly periods and didn't have a period for 4 months, but failed to consider she might be pregnant (though I guess it could happen rarely, with women who are mentally disabled).

I don't care that we have different views about women's rights to choose, what constitutes murder, whether or not your morals should dictate other people's personal decisions, etc...

But, you sometimes paint women to be inferior intellectually based on shit you fathom in your mind. You're very wrong about that, but I don't wish to abort you when you're being ignorant and condescending.

[BlueTiki]

But, you sometimes paint women to be inferior intellectually based on shit you fathom in your mind.

He's just repeating what his wife says about her colleagues.

He's a man who listens to women.

[Maggot]

Abortion statistically is performed on more people of color than white folks. If the Republicans or the religious zealots being so racially motivated against abortion I would think maybe they would give up on abortion and just say " Hell go ahead, kill your unborn you bunch of niggers, spics, lowlife pieces of shit" But it is the Democrats that are the biggest cheerleaders for making it as available as buying a soda at the corner store that seem to want to promote this as a viable extension of "normalcy" .............Eh, to me I agree that each individual has a right to choose his or her destiny, but who has the right to decide for a "handicapped" individual that's not even born yet.

CDC data

[blueberryhill]

Abortion statistically is performed on more people of color than white folks. If the Republicans or the religious zealots being so racially motivated against abortion I would think maybe they would give up on abortion and just say " Hell go ahead, kill your unborn you bunch of niggers, spics, lowlife pieces of shit" But it is the Democrats that are the biggest cheerleaders for making it as available as buying a soda at the corner store that seem to want to promote this as a viable extension of "normalcy" .............Eh, to me I agree that each individual has a right to choose his or her destiny, but who has the right to decide for a "handicapped" individual that's not even born yet.

CDC data

If men were the child bearers, we wouldn't be writing in a thread named, "Abortion." Maybe men should take more responsibility for birth control. I understand some of you will disagree, but if you don't have a uterus, go fly a kite.....What can't you understand about the Gov't dictating these private decisions which should be made by a woman, her significant other and the medical community? It is none of your business..............later term terminations are another story, but a zygote, embryo is not an individual. A woman's period is the remains of a unfertilized egg.....so then maybe we should have funeral for every period in a woman's life...for the life which could have been.....

I could agree with you if the act of sexual intercourse was done only with one goal in mind, i.e, creation......of another being.......some religions believe this and therefore, prohibit any means of birth control.....but we human beings decided maybe we wanted to engage in intercourse for pleasure and not always to create a child....accidents happen, even with today's different methods of birth control, there will be a certain percentage which will fail.....women have sought abortions since the beginning of time. Little is written about a man's responsibility in all of this...If you want a voice, then take some responsibility for the prevention of pregnancy.

Education and more effective birth control helps to reduce abortions so why don't we focus on these issues, rather than rant and rave over pro-choice and pro-life.
Making abortion illegal contributes to a high mortality rate for women who choose that option and to make it safer, along came Roe vs. Wade and now again, some religious right folks and politicians want to go back to a time in history when women were forced to choose an illegal abortion.....Do you really want to go back to the 50's....I don't and I am taking this stand for the sake of my granddaughters and women everywhere who are sick and tired of mostly men making these personal decisions for women.

[HairOfTheDog]

Abortion statistically is performed on more people of color than white folks. If the Republicans or the religious zealots being so racially motivated against abortion I would think maybe they would give up on abortion and just say " Hell go ahead, kill your unborn you bunch of niggers, spics, lowlife pieces of shit" But it is the Democrats that are the biggest cheerleaders for making it as available as buying a soda at the corner store that seem to want to promote this as a viable extension of "normalcy" .............Eh, to me I agree that each individual has a right to choose his or her destiny, but who has the right to decide for a "handicapped" individual that's not even born yet.

You've brought up race in the abortion discussion a few times before. It's not a racial issue for me, it's a women's issue.

But, I engaged in the racial discussion with you those few times. We already discussed the fact that more white women have abortions than black women annually. But, a higher percentage of the black population has an abortion than the percentage of the white population that has an abortion.

I haven't said Republicans are racists, nor do I think of people of color in the terms that you used to described them. So, I assume you weren't directing your post above to me directly.

Anyway, my view is the same as it was the first few times you brought race into the abortion discussion. I don't care if she's white, black, or brown.......I think it's a woman's/couple's right to choose whether to terminate their own pregnancy or not, and I'm glad that's the case in this country, by law. I hope it stays that way. No problem that you view the issue through a different lens, Maggot.

[BigMark]

I think what Maggot meant to say is if you're Black he'll pay for it.

[Maggot]

Only for the ones that lied and said they were already "fixed"

[Maggot]

In a recent study pregnancy rates have been seen to go up after the superbowl.

[Duchess]

I'd do one of those cheesy pix and wear only a flower crown.

[Duchess]

I'd feel like Eve...

...or is that Mother Earth?

[Blindgreed1]

I'd do one of those cheesy pix and wear only a flower crown.

Ok, go for it. Where shall I send the photog?

[Duchess]

Look to the nearest mountain and there you will find the Kingdom of Mock.