Syria

[Duchess]

After days of intense negotiations, the United States and Russia reached agreement Saturday on a framework to secure and destroy Syria's chemical weapons by mid-2014 and impose U.N. penalties if the Assad government fails to comply.

Story



I don't like to be so cynical but I don't believe this means a damn thing. Those people in the Middle East are going to do whatever the hell they want to do, agreements are meaningless to them. I've been wrong before & I could be wrong this time but somehow I doubt it.

[username]

I guess Assad (and the rebels) will just have to stick to other means of killing each other for now.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't like to be so cynical but I don't believe this means a damn thing. Those people in the Middle East are going to do whatever the hell they want to do, agreements are meaningless to them. I've been wrong before & I could be wrong this time but somehow I doubt it. [/i][/size]

In some ways I think it matters and in other ways it matters not.

Hussein and Gadaffi agreed to get rid of their WMDs after international pressure/threat and both eventually agreed to be monitored by the UN.

They were executed by the West anyway. Hussein, in part,due to the false allegation that he was still harboring specific WMDs and Gadaffi, in part, because he allegedly kept a secret stockpile. Breaches or alleged breaches to international pacts helped Western leaders justify taking them both out.

With Assad, now that he's agreed to hand the chemicals over and sign on to the international anti-chemical pact, he's under a microscope and his relationship with Putin and Russia could be seriously compromised if he attempts to use sarin or any other chemical agent. Plus, he could face military force if he does so.

I think ruthless dictators willl find a way to carry out their missions no matter what too, for the most part, but how they go about doing it can be affected by international agreements and monitoring. The bigger impact of such agreements, IMO, is often the leverage they give other countries to wage war if the conditions are breached (or even alleged to be breached, when evidence is not demanded to support the allegations). JMO.

The UN report that was released yesterday confirmed sarin gas was used and war crimes committed in Syria; the witness reports and videos were no hoax. It also confirmed that the gas was delivered via rocket type that the rebels are not known to possess, that the gas was launched on a day when the weather would keep it at a physically low level (maximizing the number of people who would be vulnerable to it), and that the delivery trajectory traces back to a governmental military site.

Of course, Assad continues to claim rebel set-up. Russia interprets the report as still "no strong evidence" pointing to Assad and away from the rebels. And, the US, France and Britain contend that the report strongly points at the Assad regime.

So, now the reported sticking point in negotiations is that Russia doesn't want to sign on the dotted line if the agreement includes a stipulation that violations of the chemical agent destruction and monitoring plan by the Syrian government could result in penalties in the form of physical force by the international community. The US, France and Britain think the agreement would be useless without such a stipulation (I tend to agree).

I think Putin and Assad are gonna have to concede on that one (and should) if they want to appear credible and avoid a possible military strike.

[aussiefriend]

^Where do you find the time HoTD? That is a short essay. The person that I have heard that has made the most sense throughout all of this is John McCain. Action should have been taken a long time ago. He has an informed, sensible, expert view. Now the situation politically is dire.

It is bizarre how it has turned into a kind of US vs Russia. In the meantime, innocent human beings are being murdered.

[HairOfTheDog]

Woke up nasally and coughing a bit here; staying in bed so I hopefully don't have to cancel morning appointments tomorrow.

It doesn't take long to write a post when I'm interested in the subject matter and have been following it for years, in any event.

Betting you could whip up a long post on bench-top dishwashers, breastfeeding, conniving bitches in the workplace or some other topic of acute interest to you in minutes too, aussie.

Anyway, hopefully, all of the international focus on the Syrian situation will help push an internal resolution closer to the surface.

At this time, no one in the global power structure has a viable solution. And, no one, not even the US or France, is claiming a desire to forcibly remove Assad from power or that there's a suitable alternative/leader qualified to move in.

And, yes, too many people continue dying in Syria as the civil war wages on. I don't think anyone's forgotten that for a second.

[Maggot]

I say fly a squadron in there with a few from France behind them and at the last minute pull away and let the French pilots do the bombing.

[aussiefriend]

I suggest some medication for you HoTD because you sound cranky too. I could whip up a long post on this subject too, but I don't have the time at the moment, I am only responding to you now out of courtesy. Not that you deserve it. If you were my patient, I would dope you up and ignore you the rest of the shift. It could be argued that you are turning into your own version of Bashar Al Assad.

Oh and your damn straight I could whip up a long post on conniving bitches in the workplace! That chick has been running amuck, boy could I tell you some stories.

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, I had the time and the inclination to respond to the question you posed to me, my friend aussie.

But, I didn't pose a question to you in my response. So, there was no need for you to take the time to post about how you don't have time to post about the topic at hand. That's not "courteous", it's just frivolous and wasteful.

Still, even though you're nuttier than a fruit cake, you're okay otherwise. So, I'd be willing to lend you an ear whilst you bitch about the other women (or cliques, or bullies, or sluts, or racists,...) whom you feel run amuck when they don't pretend to agree with you or cater to your illusions.

However, you'd have to deliver on your offer to dope me up first and ignore me. The dope to dull the throbbing pain from the boredom-induced headache, and the ignoring me bit because rolling my eyes throughout your drooling paranoid ramblings would be inevitable (and discourteous!); wouldn't want you to see such a cruel display of silent mockery. I'm not THAT much of a tyrant.

[HairOfTheDog]

And, one more thing, aussie!

Having just read that last post again, I agree with your "cranky" diagnosis.

[NightOwl]

I say fly a squadron in there with a few from France behind them and at the last minute pull away and let the French pilots do the bombing.

Excellent idea!and does Australia have an airforce LOL ever notice they never want to get involved in anything.

Australian's don't eat cake with a fork like we do, they pick up the whole piece of cake & bite a piece off so they are a bit rough around the edges like, I'd bet they'd thump the hell out of Assad if they could.

[aussiefriend]

ever notice they never want to get involved in anything.

Australian's don't eat cake with a fork like we do, they pick up the whole piece of cake & bite a piece off so they are a bit rough around the edges like, I'd bet they'd thump the hell out of Assad if they could.

We are in Afghanistan with you asshole. In case you hadn't noticed. Australian's have lost their lives over there serving our country.

Australian's don't eat cake with a fork like we do

crap, we may be devoid of manners in some areas, but you are in another league when it comes to poor social etiquette .

@HoTD, you know, I long for the good old days of Mock when you were being trolled by sexual deviates and User was the Neighborhood Watch nuisance. Now it's all changed, User is aloof and standoffish, and you are morphing into Mocks resident dictator, Mocks Assad. Is Mock the new Syria?

[HairOfTheDog]

Oh, can it, aussie.

You comparing Mock to Syria and me to Assad (with you as the victim, big effin' surprise) is asinine. That's the least compassionate view of the Syrian civilians' plight that I've read in this thread, bar none. Believe it or not, the refugees and innocents may have it just a tad worse in Syria than you do at Mock.

Plus, dictators tend to, you know, "dictate". I express my opinions and mock like everyone else, and haven't dictated anyone to do anything here. The most I've done is requested that discussion be moved out of a crime forum thread (and started a new thread for the discussion to continue) when a topic strayed outside of LC's Cell Block parameters. Alert the ACLU (or the IRS even).

As for username, she has a life and, last I checked, her mission therein is not to make my friend aussie feel noticed and special at all times. But, she can speak for herself.

Ah well. Some things never change...bitch away if you want, aussie. Nothing wrong with venting at Mock.

P.s. I don't know what you're talking about in regards to longing for sexual deviants to troll me (again?), but no need to explain. I sincerely hope your thesis is going well anyway.

[crash]

Australian's don't eat cake with a fork like we do..

Am I to believe you base this opinion on not only your extensive travels of the great southern continent, but also your comprehensive research into American cake eating habits?

I didn't think so...

We stood beside you in the second big war, Malay peninsula, Korea, Vietnamn, the first gulf war and the second. We house one of your most strategic military facilities in the Pacific region and have done so for over 50 years.

Won't get involved be fucked!

If I based all my opinions of Americans on your comments, I'd believe you were all ignorant, conceited and ungrateful fucktards too self centred on patting your own back to smell the roses. But at least one of us knows that's not true.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't think Rudd, or now Abbott, has come out and said that Australia is advocating military action (missed it if one or the other did). But, Australia has made it clear that it supports the US morally and is preparing to get engaged should the US move forward with a military strike. Long-standing loyal ally, no doubt.

I'm assuming that Australians are generally in the same spot as many in the rest of the West; hating what's happening to Syrian civilians, but not anxious to take drastic steps that could potentially call for putting their soldiers' lives on the line there without valid justification, a clear mission, and some level of understanding and preparedness in terms of the likely repercussions.

What's your take on the issue of Syrian intervention in terms of where the general Australian population stands?

[username]

... User was the Neighborhood Watch nuisance. Now it's all changed, User is aloof and standoffish, and you are morphing into Mocks resident dictator, Mocks Assad.

Back the fuck off, you angst ridden tick.

McCain is an idiot. He's for intervention but only if it's juuusssttt right. If he had any hair, I'd call him Goldilocks.

Does it cause you a psychotic break when people like McCain and Oprah disagree? Oprah would want to intercede if more black people lived in Syria. I don't think she's too worried about the tan people though.

[BlueTiki]

The person that I have heard that has made the most sense throughout all of this is John McCain. Action should have been taken a long time ago. He has an informed, sensible, expert view. Now the situation politically is dire.

Politically dire?

Not for the US.

Syrian casualties mean nothing to me.

It is their war . . . if they need help, then they can BUY effin' mercenaries.

No more American freebies.

[NightOwl]

The person that I have heard that has made the most sense throughout all of this is John McCain. Action should have been taken a long time ago. He has an informed, sensible, expert view. Now the situation politically is dire.

Politically dire?

Not for the US.

Syrian casualties mean nothing to me.

It is their war . . . if they need help, then they can BUY effin' mercenaries.

No more American freebies.

I've got to agree with aussiefriend these sick twisted global thugs need to go there is no room on the planet anymore for them, we need to ban together to stomp them out. I'm afraid we are just going to end up revisiting this assad sob.

[HairOfTheDog]

A cease-fire in Syria is in negotiations.

Russia and Iran are reportedly pushing Assad to that end, and the Syrian Deputy Prime Minister and the Assad regime reportedly agree that neither side can win this civil war militarily.

Peace talks are in the works for the Geneva conference, but the fear is that since the rebel forces are at odds, there may be no way to stop them when/if the governmental forces and the SNC (opposition group supported by the west) agree to cease fire.

Hoping the peace talks actually become reality, but just getting everyone around the same table is a battle. The US refuses to allow Iran to attend. Assad refuses to attend if certain factions of the rebel forces are represented because he "doesn't negotiate with terrorists". Sticky.

And, there's the continuing problem for the US: the SNC continues to refuse consideration of a cease fire and peace talks if a transitional government would include the possibility of Assad in any role.

But, the rise of ISIS (al-Qaeda linked groups led by the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham) is one principal reason why President Barack Obama has been hesitant to back the rebels more directly, with some analysts saying the United States would rather see Mr Assad hold on to power than engineer his downfall, allowing a power vacuum that al-Qaeda could fill.

Ref:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...talks.html

[HairOfTheDog]

Update

-Chemical weapon destruction has begun in Syria with reports that, so far, the Syrian government is cooperating and adhering to the agreement. Assad seems to be off the hook a bit, for now...

-Human Rights Watch has confirmed through their investigation that the rebel fighters are guilty of serious human rights abuses that could be equated to war crimes - killing at least 190 civilians in a pre-planned attack to gain ground back in August. The Syrian Coalition (western-backed opposition) has responded that it condemns that attack and has no control over the rogue rebel fighters who carried it out.

-And, the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded today to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the international chemical weapons watchdog helping to eliminate the army's stockpiles of poison gas in Syria's civil war zone.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/11/world/meas...?hpt=wo_c2

[HairOfTheDog]

Rebels Get A Head - In the Wrong Direction

Radical anti-government fighters in Syria mistakenly beheaded a wounded fellow rebel soldier after assuming he was a supporter of President Bashar al-Assad, according to an online statement from the radical fighters' group.

A separate online video showed a gruesome display of radical fighters holding what appeared to be the victim's head.

After the beheading earlier this week, the victim was determined to be Mohammed Fares, an anti-government fighter wounded in clashes against the Syrian Army earlier, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights.

On Thursday, an online statement from a spokesman for the al Qaeda-affiliated Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS), whose fighters apparently carried out the beheading of Fares, called for forgiveness for the killers and asked for "restraint and piety" from anti-government supporters.

The incident comes as deadly clashes and infighting continues between extremist opposition factions and more secular rebel brigades, potentially weakening the armed movement against al-Assad and further threatening the safety of civilians caught in the conflict.

Human rights groups and some member of the Syrian opposition have condemned what they deem barbaric actions by ISIS including the alleged execution of wounded government soldiers, the shooting of a 15-year-old boy for blasphemy, and public flogging of women for behavior deemed to violate Sharia law.

"We call on God to accept Mohammed Fares into his Kingdom and to forgive his brothers that sought to rid us of the enemies of God and our enemies," Omar Al-Qahatani said in Arabic in the ISIS statement.

Full story:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/14/world/meas...?hpt=hp_t2