GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, OR DO THEY?

[Duchess]

That's my thought as well. Without a SS# the background is conducted using just the name and DOB. A SS# would speed the check up and pinpoint the persons identity.

Yes you are reading that right. Currently dealers have the right to complete the transaction after 3 consecutive working days. Even if we have not had a response from the NICS system. I think that is crazy.

Thanks for the response, FU! Those are just common sense issues, why would anyone have a problem with that. Jeez Louise.

[sally]

They've already arrested a bunch of stupid kids for calling in threats.

Good! I hope it scares the crap out of all of them! A strip search would probably accomplish that for a normal little bastard who was just dickin' around.

If there was a way to ban them from social media and take away any phone that is able to access the internet, that should be done too.

[F.U.]

That's my thought as well. Without a SS# the background is conducted using just the name and DOB. A SS# would speed the check up and pinpoint the persons identity.

Yes you are reading that right. Currently dealers have the right to complete the transaction after 3 consecutive working days. Even if we have not had a response from the NICS system. I think that is crazy.

Thanks for the response, FU! Those are just common sense issues, why would anyone have a problem with that. Jeez Louise.

There are a lot of people that feel that we should not have to jump through ANY hoops to own a firearm. I know, I was one. I have started to rethink my stance on this subject. Some background checks and small restrictions arnt really as bad as I once felt they were.

[F.U.]

They've already arrested a bunch of stupid kids for calling in threats.

Good! I hope it scares the crap out of all of them! A strip search would probably accomplish that for a normal little bastard who was just dickin' around.

If there was a way to ban them from social media and take away any phone that is able to access the internet, that should be done too.

People on the sex offender list cant use social media like FB. So I don't know why they couldn't do the same in this case.

[HairOfTheDog]

They've already arrested a bunch of stupid kids for calling in threats.

Good! I hope it scares the crap out of all of them! A strip search would probably accomplish that for a normal little bastard who was just dickin' around.

And, it's not only kids, but some disgruntled adults who need some sense shaken into them too.

Former Miami Dolphin Jonathan Martin, 28, posted the below picture on his private Instagram feed late last night.



In the post, he hashtagged his former school, Harvard-Westlake in California and the Miami Dolphins.

The school was evacuated today after someone reported the post to authorities. It's not clear if Martin was arrested or instead investigated and cleared. Authorities said there was no credible threat to the school.

Stanford University graduate Martin was a player for the Miami Dolphins, but left in 2013 amid allegations he was a victim of racist bullying, primarily at the hands of his then-teammate Richie Incognito.

Incognito left voicemails on Martin's phone calling him a 'half-nigger piece of shit', threatening to slap his mother and even making death threats against Martin. The current Buffalo Bills player also joked about 'running a train' on Martin's sister, and made other crude remarks about her. He was investigated and suspended for a while after the incident.

Martin reportedly checked into a hospital for emotional distress over the incident, and returned to his parents home in California. He ultimately quit the team and debated giving up on his career, feeling such psychological duress that he said he twice considered committing suicide.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...chool.html

[Maggot]

Plenty of pansy assed people in this world, grow a nutsack and stop believing what a bully says, that patty cake should be old enough to be able to smack talk the fucker back. WTF

[Midwest Spy]

That's my thought as well. Without a SS# the background is conducted using just the name and DOB. A SS# would speed the check up and pinpoint the persons identity.

Yes you are reading that right. Currently dealers have the right to complete the transaction after 3 consecutive working days. Even if we have not had a response from the NICS system. I think that is crazy.

Thanks for the response, FU! Those are just common sense issues, why would anyone have a problem with that. Jeez Louise.

There are a lot of people that feel that we should not have to jump through ANY hoops to own a firearm. I know, I was one. I have started to rethink my stance on this subject. Some background checks and small restrictions arnt really as bad as I once felt they were.

No kidding.

If a person has nothing to hide or isn’t trying to skirt the legal system, what’s a little red tape to go through to ensure the safety of others?

It’s like flying.

I know I’m not a criminal, but I’ll go through the b.s. to try and deter the bad guys.

[F.U.]

That's my thought as well. Without a SS# the background is conducted using just the name and DOB. A SS# would speed the check up and pinpoint the persons identity.

Yes you are reading that right. Currently dealers have the right to complete the transaction after 3 consecutive working days. Even if we have not had a response from the NICS system. I think that is crazy.

Thanks for the response, FU! Those are just common sense issues, why would anyone have a problem with that. Jeez Louise.

There are a lot of people that feel that we should not have to jump through ANY hoops to own a firearm. I know, I was one. I have started to rethink my stance on this subject. Some background checks and small restrictions arnt really as bad as I once felt they were.

No kidding.

If a person has nothing to hide or isn’t trying to skirt the legal system, what’s a little red tape to go through to ensure the safety of others?

It’s like flying.

I know I’m not a criminal, but I’ll go through the b.s. to try and deter the bad guys.

It all starts with a lack of trust of our government. You never know what they have up their sleeves. Simple things like background checks can turn around and be used against us in the future. The journey of a mile starts with the first step. I understand how gun owners feel. If we give them a inch today, they will want a foot tomorrow. That is why we fight every inch of the way. Don't give them a inch because they will just want more tomorrow. How many times have you heard, Its a good start, when talking about adding steps to the system? That simple phrase says it all.
Now I am willing to compromise and rework the NICS system. But I do think current dealers should be involved in this rebuilding process. We know the loopholes, what works and what doesn't. I think we could come up with a much better system than any of those pencil pushers in the offices.

[HairOfTheDog]

How many times have you heard, Its a good start, when talking about adding steps to the system? That simple phrase says it all.

Now I am willing to compromise and rework the NICS system. But I do think current dealers should be involved in this rebuilding process. We know the loopholes, what works and what doesn't. I think we could come up with a much better system than any of those pencil pushers in the offices.

"It's a good start" is exactly what it is when some changes are made, but other problems are put off for later, F.U.

You just confirmed as much by acknowledging there are more problems to be fixed and that the system needs rebuilding.

So, if you take that simple and true generic phrase to be a threat to your rights, that's on you.

[F.U.]

How many times have you heard, Its a good start, when talking about adding steps to the system? That simple phrase says it all.

Now I am willing to compromise and rework the NICS system. But I do think current dealers should be involved in this rebuilding process. We know the loopholes, what works and what doesn't. I think we could come up with a much better system than any of those pencil pushers in the offices.

"It's a good start" is exactly what it is when some changes are made, but other problems are put off for later, F.U.

You just confirmed as much by acknowledging there are more problems to be fixed and that the system needs rebuilding.

So, if you take that simple and true generic phrase to be a threat to your rights, that's on you.

I am just trying to explain why there is so much resistance. The fear of where the road will lead is the issue. A good start is taken by many to mean , we want more and more until one day we take your guns, or at least specific types of guns. I am not trying to be a ass here, I am simply trying to explain why the two sides are having such a hard time getting anything done. I know my thoughts on this topic are evolving. I am wiling to sit down and talk about changes needed to the system. I am still not willing to talk about banning ANY firearms though. Who knows how I will feel in another 5 years though. A lot of my changes about this have actually came about because of this thread and talking with all of you.

[Midwest Spy]

This topic is really interesting (if it weren’t tainted with so many, many tragic deaths).

Today, my wife and I met with our tax guy, the same guy we’ve met with for nearly 15 years.

I’ve known for a long time that he’s an ultra conservative. We’ve had cursory discussions on various topics, and I’ve picked up on his viewpoints.

Today, though, showed me just how passionate gun owners and gun rights advocates are.

He brought up the shooting last week and was nearly frothing at the mouth that the Libs and anybody not an NRA member was clamoring for everyone’s guns.

Thought he was going to have a stroke right in front of us.

And there it is, neatly summed up, as FU explained earlier.

Give an inch, no matter how rationally thought out, and it’s the same as giving everything.

A gun lover cannot think clearly.

Period.

There’s no discussion that will ever lead to any sort of concession, because first and foremost, the right to a gun is far greater than any ordinary citizens right to Life, Liberty and Happiness.

Again, I’m not advocating getting rid of anything at the moment, but to me, semi-automatic rifles and high capacity clips were only invented for one thing: killing many people in a short period of time.

Are they truly necessary in our society?

I say no, but I at least will listen to well thought out arguments.

Anyway, in the Florida shooting last week, there were so many opportunities to prevent the tragedy that I can’t blame the gun for this one.

[HairOfTheDog]

I see. Thank you F.U.

It comes across as paranoid when "it's a good start" in relation to fixing a couple of problems in a problem-filled gun safety/control system is heard as "we're gonna take all your guns away" to some people. But, I get what you're saying.

As I posted a month or so ago, I've come to agree with your assertion that lack of enforcement of existing laws and regulations is the biggest problem we face in terms of gun control/safety in this country.

Following gun crime closely, especially over the last couple of years, I see it time and time again. And, I'm not talking about an occasional border line judgment call winding up being the wrong one. I'm seeing blatant threats that are not flagged, not followed-up on, or just ignored on a regular basis. There's a lot to fix/change in that respect and I'm hoping the public outcry will help keep that ball rolling.

[F.U.]

Well M.S. Its not that a pro gunner cant think clearly. Its that we have seen and heard the B.S. outa anti gunners for decades now. You may think that no one is saying ban all guns, but that is far from the truth. Just spend a little time reading the comments posted on the Brady Bunch's FB page. Its loaded with, no one needs a AR, no one needs a 30 round magazine. Take all semi auto firearms away. Ban all guns. That is what we re seeing and that is the kinda talk that keeps us fighting. I do understand there are extremes on both sides of the fence and honestly if those extremes would just shut up those of us in the middle could probably sit down and have a rational discussion and accomplish something.

[HairOfTheDog]

F.U., you have been one of the most rabid gun extremists for years, going so far as to claim any bans would mean prying the guns out of your cold dead hands, declaring that you'd bury guns and evade the law if a ban you didn't agree with was passed, repeating all the (factually incorrect) NRA rhetoric and talking points, etc.

If you're sincere about having become more open-minded, more rational, and less an extremist........that's awesome. I'm going to take you at your word on that for the purposes of this discussion.

If you're just saying that in the wake of another major fatal gun-related incident with lots of people demanding gun control reform, and then you reverse course when the smoke settles, like you've done in the past, it will be clear soon enough and we'll keep moving forward nonetheless.

Anyway, 'ban all guns' is a rather extreme view for this country considering the Second Amendment. I agree with you there. However, "ban AR15s and high capacity magazines" is not extreme at all, nor is it in any way an attack on the Second Amendment.

[F.U.]

Yes HotD you guys have worn me down a bit and I am starting to look at things differently. To the point where I have actually started selling off many of my firearms. In fact I just sold my AK47 last week. What was once a , in excess of 150 firearm collection, is now down to about 50.

While we agree on many things now I do not agree with banning AR's and High cap mags. I would agree with making them harder for younger , under 21, kids to buy them. I would not be against 18-21 year olds only being allowed to buy rimfire rifles, centerfire bolt action and lever action rifles and shotguns. At 21, when they get the right to buy a handgun, then open the door to buying centerfire semiauto rifles with detachable mags.

On thing I cant figure out how to deal with is returning soldiers. Many of these kids are trained killers and now have problems. If we make it to where they loose their firearm rights if diagnosed with PTSD many of these kids will not seek the help they need. So I just don't know how we would deal with that. I think it may reduce the number of people that are willing to join the military if they know there is a very good chance that after uncle Sam is done with them they will never be able to hold a gun again.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

F.U. I am pretty much on the same page as you and I have thought about the soldiers coming home too, I have family and friends in that group and know quite a few of them that have at least Some form of PTSD. some are OK, but some of these guys are a mess and I would not be the one to give them a weapon. Some are treated and others are not. I think this aspect of the gun rights issue needs a LOT of careful thought. What does it say to the guy that went over there, multiple tours, we trained him to be a killer, told him to go kill, he took damage and comes home...And we tell him we do not trust him now? Believe me, I don't want this guy having unfettered access to guns either, high capacity, low capacity, cool looking or scary looking. That guy we need to make sure he is getting help, But we also have to keep everyone else safe. I don't have an answer either, but we need some.

Bans are not THE answer, I don't think they are AN answer
Age restrictions, metal detectors, trained guards, locked doors and corrections to ehe NICS system ARE ALL good answeres especially if ALL enacted. Security and Safety are like an onion...Layers...

[Love Child]

I am just trying to explain why there is so much resistance. The fear of where the road will lead is the issue. A good start is taken by many to mean , we want more and more until one day we take your guns, or at least specific types of guns. I am not trying to be a ass here, I am simply trying to explain why the two sides are having such a hard time getting anything done. I know my thoughts on this topic are evolving. I am wiling to sit down and talk about changes needed to the system. I am still not willing to talk about banning ANY firearms though. Who knows how I will feel in another 5 years though. A lot of my changes about this have actually came about because of this thread and talking with all of you.

I appreciate this because I have been having several discussions regarding "gun control" with some friends and they keep hearing "ban all guns" and I keep pointing out that what I have seen (In my circle) is people saying, "We don't want to take your guns away, we don't want to ban all guns"
I only have a few who are actually reading each side and having civil conversations. This is one of them by the way.

[Duchess]

Yes HotD you guys have worn me down a bit and I am starting to look at things differently. To the point where I have actually started selling off many of my firearms. In fact I just sold my AK47 last week. What was once a , in excess of 150 firearm collection, is now down to about 50.

To say I was surprised to read this would be an understatement, I was absolutely gobsmacked. I've spent almost 10 years talking guns & rights with you and I firmly believed you would go to your grave not giving an inch. Even your demeanor in discussing this has changed, you seem more peaceful, relaxed even.

FU, I appreciate your opinion and I appreciate the time you have always taken to express it even when I haven't agreed with it. Thanks for that!

[Donovan]

The battle over gun rights is a distraction, while those in power quietly strip away our other rights, the ones that are less sexy but oh so much more important. When the time comes for this "revolution" that so many gun hoarders fear and want so badly, it won't be bullets that sway the tide against a government of drones and bombs. It will be numbers and voices. What terrifies the elites most is the possibility that the people at the bottom will realize just how much they outnumber the people at the top.

[HairOfTheDog]

speeches by NRA reps Dana Loesch and Wayne La Pierre at CPAC this morning.

I saw some of it. They all sound like lunatics!

trump is speaking before them now. He told them that if he can't build a strong military that one day they won't be allowed into CPAC and they probably won't even be able to have their houses anymore. Ahahaha! The crowd is eatin' it up. My God. It is so freakish to know there are so many seemingly well adjusted people who believe that drivel. It's unnerving. They aren't well adjusted at all!

I didn't watch Trump's speech at CPAC, but I bet I could tell you just about everything he said to that crowd (pretty much a repeat of his campaign rallies, plus a request for support in increasing rifle age limits and bump stock bans).

When I watched Loesch do her spiel at CPAC, she had a majorly different tone than she did at the Town Hall debate the day before.

She strikes me as the NRA's version of Kellyanne Conway; well-spoken, rather attractive, and a seasoned spinner who is willing to say anything (even lies and truly absurd assertions) to represent those paying her salary.

When Loesch very dramatically declared that the 'legacy media just loves mass shootings because they love the ratings that come with white mothers crying!', I immediately wrote her off as a flaming troll and a hypocrite.

The NRA benefits immensely from mass shootings when all the gun zealots run out and buy in bulk for fear that bans are coming. I haven't heard news anchors claim that the NRA loves mass murders though, even when some NRA groupies (here at Mock even) post celebratory sentiments about the revenue and profits to gun manufactures and dealers in the aftermath.

Anyway..........gun sales have been way down since Trump took office because the zealots weren't worried about new gun control measures under his regime before now. Remington even had to file for bankruptcy.

The mass shooting in Florida probably boosted the industry financially a bit temporarily, but it's also put the NRA and its stale rhetoric on the hot seat with a good deal of the public. I'm glad; the NRA needs to regroup, go back to its admirable roots, and be pushed out of political control.

NRA A+ rated politicians, including the President, are committing to some stricter gun controls despite objections from the NRA; politicians know voter sentiment is changing.

And, while the NRA claims it doesn't care, I bet they care a lot that so many of their major corporate sponsors and partners have dumped them over the last week (over 20 at last count). The Stoneman Douglas survivors and other gun safety activists are truly affecting change right now.