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(08-23-2016, 03:25 PM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Let's see: bone fragments found on Steven Avery's property (in a fire pit), an eyewitness putting Avery at the fire the night Hallbach disappears, an eyewitness putting Hallbach's vehicle in Avery's driveway around 3:15-3:45 the day she disappears, Hallbach's vehicle found on Avery's property, Avery's 2 *69 calls to Hallbach's cell before she arrives and his non *69 call to her cell around 4:30 the day she disappears to make it look like he's wondering why she never showed.
He's a stupid, evil pig and he got caught.
BTW, the entire Dassey interview (45 mins) can be found on YouTube and he looks pretty damn guilty of something, stupid or not. I've seen it, and everything above is circumstantial and could be interpreted any way one wishes to. 
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I seen Steve Avery at Walmart
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(08-23-2016, 03:47 PM)Pokemon999 Wrote: I seen Steve Avery at Walmart  I'm sure.
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I'm not prosecuting the case, Gunnar, and I've said repeatedly that I'm not insisting Avery is guilty.
You're insisting that he's not, and I understand your reasons from having read the thread. I've already explained why I'm not convinced that Avery was framed.
But, since you're waiting for my reply...
The reasons Teresa's DNA may not have been uncovered are many, including (1) she wasn't killed at the theorized spot, (2) the scene was intentionally or unintentionally contaminated/cleaned prior to CSI evidence collection, (3) the CSI in that rural area lacked the expertise to properly collect/process DNA...
There are other reasons that DNA is often not detected/collected at murder scenes, those are just off the top of my head.
Deer blood being detected in the area when Teresa's was not could also be a result of many possible scenarios, one of them again being that she was not shot at the theorized spot or location.
I understand and appreciate your passion about this case. You might find it more satisfying to engage with someone who agrees with your insistence that Avery was framed, or someone who insists that he's guilty. I'm not in either category.
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(08-23-2016, 04:07 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I'm not prosecuting the case, Gunnar, and I've said repeatedly that I'm not insisting Avery is guilty.
You're insisting that he's not and I understand your reasons from having read the thread. And, I've already explained why I'm not convinced that Avery was framed.
But, since you're waiting for my reply...
The reasons Teresa's DNA may not have been uncovered are many, including (1) she wasn't killed at the theorized spot, (2) the scene was intentionally or unintentionally contaminated/cleaned prior to CSI evidence collection, (3) the CSI in that rural area lacked the expertise to properly collect/process DNA...
There are other reasons that DNA is often not detected/collected at murder scenes, those are just off the top of my head.
Deer blood being detected in the area when Teresa's was not could also be a result of many possible scenarios, one of them again being that she was not shot at the theorized spot or location.
I understand and appreciate your passion about this case. You might find it more satisfying to engage with someone who agrees with your insistence that Avery was framed, or someone who insists that he wasn't. I'm not in either category. Glad you brought that up. Regarding that crime scene and how it was processed...
http://globalnews.ca/news/2576368/steven...-halbachs/
Also, did I mention that Avery's blood that was found in her car had EDTA in it? EDTA is a preservative used for blood samples. Typically they have a lavender top, like the one that was tampered with wile in the evidence vault. Coincidence you say?
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I didn't say it was a coincidence or anything else, knucklehead.
The defense forensic expert witness testified that the blood sample his team tested from the car was positive for EDTA.
The FBI forensic expert witness testified that the blood sample his team tested from the car was negative for EDTA.
I think that blood evidence may well be Avery's best bet for winning a new trial, especially with the exposure from the Netflix series.
I read sometime back that Avery's new defense attorney Kathleen Zellner is pushing for the development of a scientific test which will prove conclusively that the blood in Teresa's car contained EDTA (or not). That would be cool and could be useful in other cases as well.
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(08-23-2016, 04:59 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: I didn't say it was a coincidence or anything else, knucklehead.
The defense forensic expert witness testified that the blood sample his team tested from the car was positive for EDTA.
The FBI forensic expert witness testified that the blood sample his team tested from the car was negative for EDTA.
I think that blood evidence may well be Avery's best bet for winning a new trial, especially with the exposure from the Netflix series.
I read sometime back that Avery's new defense attorney Kathleen Zellner is pushing for the development of a scientific test which will prove conclusively that the blood in Teresa's car contained EDTA (or not). That would be cool and could be useful in other cases as well. No, I believe he said he didn't believe the EDTA in the blood came from a sample tube, but rather a cross contamination in the lab. If he said there was no EDTA then he's a liar, because the FBI's EDTA tests are posted on line.
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FBI analyst LeBeau's blood/EDTA testimony included the testing methodology and results. He testified that the dried samples of Avery's blood gathered from the scene were negative for EDTA presence.
He also testified that Avery's blood which had been stored in a purple vial were positive for EDTA presence (as expected).
Transcript: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/56...7Mar06.pdf
Anyway, IF the 5,000 pages of newly released docs you mentioned contain evidence contradicting LeBeau's testimony, that could help Avery's defense team in getting a new trial.
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(08-23-2016, 04:59 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: The defense forensic expert witness testified that the blood sample his team tested from the car was positive for EDTA.
The FBI forensic expert witness testified that the blood sample his team tested from the car was negative for EDTA.
He also testified that Avery's blood which had been stored in a purple vial were positive for EDTA presence (as expected).
Correction to the bolded text:
It was the defense attorneys, not a defense expert witness, who suggested that blood drawn from Avery in his rape trial was removed from the storage vial and planted in Teresa's car. The rest is accurate. The FBI tested blood from the scene after the blood planting allegation was made by the defense attorneys and concluded that Avery's blood found in Teresa's car did not contain EDTA like blood in the vial did, which the prosecution used to quash the planting allegation.
Defense Update:
As of March, Kathleen Zellner was focusing on alleged pings from Teresa's cell phone 12 miles from the Avery property, which she claims proves that Teresa left the property before she was killed (and also proves that Avery had insufficient representation from Strang and Buting). In addition, she said that she was focusing on alternate suspects, one sex offender in particular, along with the limited DNA testing in the case. Ref: http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/08/kathl...41470.html
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I have seen some of this on TV. I heard Nancy Grace talking about it, she was saying she has met with him and interviewed him and believes he is guilty. She went into details on the evidence, from what I saw and heard, it is a ridiculous argument to propose this guy is innocent based on a conspiracy that they didn't want to pay compensation for a previous conviction.
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(08-23-2016, 10:07 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: (08-23-2016, 04:59 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: The defense forensic expert witness testified that the blood sample his team tested from the car was positive for EDTA.
The FBI forensic expert witness testified that the blood sample his team tested from the car was negative for EDTA.
He also testified that Avery's blood which had been stored in a purple vial were positive for EDTA presence (as expected).
Correction to the bolded text:
It was the defense attorneys, not a defense expert witness, who suggested that blood drawn from Avery in his rape trial was removed from the storage vial and planted in Teresa's car. The rest is accurate. The FBI tested blood from the scene after the blood planting allegation was made by the defense attorneys and concluded that Avery's blood found in Teresa's car did not contain EDTA like blood in the vial did, which the prosecution used to quash the planting allegation.
Defense Update:
As of March, Kathleen Zellner was focusing on alleged pings from Teresa's cell phone 12 miles from the Avery property, which she claims proves that Teresa left the property before she was killed (and also proves that Avery had insufficient representation from Strang and Buting). In addition, she said that she was focusing on alternate suspects, one sex offender in particular, along with the limited DNA testing in the case. Ref: http://www.newsweek.com/2016/04/08/kathl...41470.html According to the analysis of what is on line that was recently posted by the FBI, that is false. The blood from Theresa's car contained EDTA. The FBI and former FBI laboratory hematologists are trying to explain away the EDTA in the sample by claiming that the analyzer was contaminated with EDTA from the positive control. Then they went on to say that blood stains "didn't have enough EDTA" which to someone that knows their way around a blood laboratory doesn't make a lot of sense. You are either using an analyzer, or you're using archaic methods of blood stain. Your typical analyzer uses about 0.2 MM of blood to test so there was plenty to test. If your sample is contaminated, you use a PH 7 solution to clean the probe and take another fucking sample. Why anyone would go through the pain in the ass to run a blood stain (which needs about 1CM) when you have an analyzer in front of you just makes no sense at all. It's smoke and mirrors.
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(08-24-2016, 04:52 AM)aussiefriend Wrote: I have seen some of this on TV. I heard Nancy Grace talking about it, she was saying she has met with him and interviewed him and believes he is guilty. She went into details on the evidence, from what I saw and heard, it is a ridiculous argument to propose this guy is innocent based on a conspiracy that they didn't want to pay compensation for a previous conviction. Nancy Grace
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(08-24-2016, 09:35 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: According to the analysis of what is on line that was recently posted by the FBI, that is false. The blood from Theresa's car contained EDTA.
Can you please post the link to that analysis/source Gunnar? I'd like to see that.
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(08-24-2016, 09:39 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: (08-24-2016, 09:35 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: According to the analysis of what is on line that was recently posted by the FBI, that is false. The blood from Theresa's car contained EDTA.
Can you please post the link to that analysis/source Gunnar? I'd like to see that. http://www.techinsider.io/fbi-edta-evide...c-lebeau-1
Oddly enough, it seems the PDF's are broken links on my comp now. Maybe you can see them?
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Hey I love a good conspiracy theory.
I want to believe that it was the CIA or Cubans that assassinated JFK. I want to believe the moon landing was really produced on a Hollywood set.
With Avery I'm having a problem figuring out who would have murdered Hallbach if it wasn't him. Then staged/planted all the evidence that we currently have. Pretty elaborate. Even for a police department on the hook for millions.
If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it. However, I think Avery is a sick individual.
He had met Hallbach previously and that's why he wanted her back on his property again. She had made it known that she didn't like him, and didn't want any encounters again.
That's why he *69 called her.
Even Avery's girlfriend has come out after all these years and basically said that anything good she said about him on the documentary is false.
Anyway, we'll see what his new attorney can do for him.
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(08-24-2016, 10:38 AM)Midwest Spy Wrote: Hey I love a good conspiracy theory.
I want to believe that it was the CIA or Cubans that assassinated JFK. I want to believe the moon landing was really produced on a Hollywood set.
With Avery I'm having a problem figuring out who would have murdered Hallbach if it wasn't him. Then staged/planted all the evidence that we currently have. Pretty elaborate. Even for a police department on the hook for millions.
If I'm wrong, I'll gladly admit it. However, I think Avery is a sick individual.
He had met Hallbach previously and that's why he wanted her back on his property again. She had made it known that she didn't like him, and didn't want any encounters again.
That's why he *69 called her.
Even Avery's girlfriend has come out after all these years and basically said that anything good she said about him on the documentary is false.
Anyway, we'll see what his new attorney can do for him. I don't believe it's a conspiracy theory. I think her ex killed her. You know... The guy that erased messages off of her voice mail? Yeah. That guy. The guy that in ANY other investigation of a murder that would be a prime suspect. Yeah... That guy. I think Avery was a convenient target and I think he had a very large lawsuit pending which would have really hurt when he won it (and he would have won because the DNA evidence proved he was wrongfully incarcerated). He and his entire family are poorly educated and I think the decision to sacrifice the Avery lamb was made by the highest levels.
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(08-24-2016, 09:36 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: (08-24-2016, 04:52 AM)aussiefriend Wrote: I have seen some of this on TV. I heard Nancy Grace talking about it, she was saying she has met with him and interviewed him and believes he is guilty. She went into details on the evidence, from what I saw and heard, it is a ridiculous argument to propose this guy is innocent based on a conspiracy that they didn't want to pay compensation for a previous conviction. Nancy Grace
we don't do that shit in the crime forum.
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Thanks for the link Gunnar. I've already read that article - it does not contain anything showing that the FBI testing of Avery's blood from Teresa's car contained EDTA.
I believe you're mistaken. I haven't personally read them all, but I have not seen any exhibits, any testimony, or any evidence that the FBI tests showed EDTA presence in Avery's blood collected from Teresa's car.
If there was evidence of positive EDTA results in those FBI docs and LeBeau lied under oath, we would have heard about it, in my opinion. There are thousands of people, including those working on Avery's new defense team, who were poring over the docs looking for any indication of positive EDTA test results when the docs were released several months ago. If it had been found, it would have been big news.
Instead, after the doc dump, the new defense team publicly questioned the validity of the FBI result by calling into question the testing parameters/protocols (which were based on the OJ Simpson case when his attorneys argued that OJ's blood at the crime scene had been planted from a vial -- ref: http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/26/us/fbi...blood.html ).
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If that blood is tested again by an unbiased independent body with new more finite testing parameters/protocols (which I hope happens) and the tests again showed no EDTA in Avery's blood collected from Teresa's vehicle, it would prove conclusively that his blood was not planted from the rape case vial and seriously undermine the narrative of the series (Part 2 is now in production). More importantly, it would seriously undermine a pillar of the defense's original "framed for a murder he didn't commit" strategy.
On the other hand, if a new more finite test conducted by independent experts conclusively indicated that EDTA was in fact present in the blood collected from the car, it would be a huge victory for the filmmakers and the defense attorneys; a pillar of hope for Avery.
Avery's dedicated defense attorneys for years, Strang and Buting who were featured prominently in the Netflix series, have admitted publicly that they absolutely have doubts about Avery's innocence, but that's irrelevant to their concerns about the integrity of the investigation and thus the validity of the conviction. Ref: http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2016/...-interview
In my opinion, unless Zellner is completely convinced of her client's innocence, it would be very risky for the defense to make new EDTA blood testing the key focus of their appeal in hopes that the test results would contradict what's in the FBI blood docs and LeBeau's trial testimony.
The focus for appeal now appears to me to be creating doubt via cell phone pings, inadequate defense representation by Strang and Buting, and LE's alleged neglect to thoroughly investigate alternate suspects.
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(08-24-2016, 11:12 AM)aussiefriend Wrote: (08-24-2016, 09:36 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote: (08-24-2016, 04:52 AM)aussiefriend Wrote: I have seen some of this on TV. I heard Nancy Grace talking about it, she was saying she has met with him and interviewed him and believes he is guilty. She went into details on the evidence, from what I saw and heard, it is a ridiculous argument to propose this guy is innocent based on a conspiracy that they didn't want to pay compensation for a previous conviction. Nancy Grace
we don't do that shit in the crime forum. Nancy Grace is a legal Sally Jesse Raphael that constantly needs to be reeled in by REAL lawyers. Don't bring up Nancy Grace in a serious crime forum conversation you Australian twit.
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