Presidential race 2016

[BigMark]

Don't be a pussy.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, good one, Biggie.

[HairOfTheDog]

Well, I don't think Clinton knocked Trump out tonight. He started off terribly, I thought, but really bounced back.

I thought Clinton did okay, but I'd hoped she'd be even stronger than she was in the first debate. I thought she performed weaker than she did in the first debate whereas Trump performed stronger than he did in the first debate.

Trump's response to the groper tape was not what I expected and wasn't effective, in my opinion. He again wrote it off to "locker room talk" and "just words", even though he was 59 and talking about uninvited sexual advances, not consensual conquests. He again said, "nobody has more respect for women than me". It took him being asked three times by Anderson whether he really committed the sexual assaults or not. He finally quickly said, "no I didn't (really do those things)", and then immediately deflected to Bill Clinton, whose accusers Trump had in the audience.

Clinton didn't take the bait when Trump brought up Bill Clinton's past problems with women or put his accusers on display, which I thought was smart. I think Clinton did a good job listing all of the things Trump has said and done which she believes makes him unfit to be president.

I thought Trump again put off African Americans and Latinos when he had opportunities to try to improve his standings there a couple of times.

In my opinion, Clinton was much better than Trump at relating to the audience and outlining clear policy solutions to problems - on clean energy and related job opps, health care reformation, tax code reformation, Muslim American integration, Syria, foreign policy...

But, I was asking myself why the hell wasn't she better at responding effectively to the damn email questions for the millionth time? And why the hell was she not better prepared to answer the question about her comment to Wall Street bankers (from the Wikileak release) regarding having different policy explanations for different audiences? Her Abraham Lincoln movie explanation, true or not, sucked, I thought. Trump surely made big points with his base by calling her a consummate liar who's now blaming Abraham Lincoln.

I also think Clinton could have done better answering about her 'basket of deplorables' remark. She said her problem was with 'him' (Trump) not his supporters and she'd work to represent everyone, even those who didn't vote for her.

Trump threatened to ask his Attorney General to investigate Clinton for prosecution over deleting and bleaching emails if he's elected (which he said in all seriousness) and then later said that she'd be in jail in response to a comment she made about him (which I took as a joke in tone and context, but that's just my impression). He also whined about not getting as much time from the moderators several times (though I think he actually talked more than Clinton).

During the course of the debate, Trump called Clinton the devil, said she had hate in her heart, tried to deflect his birther shit on to her again, and hurled a whole bunch of other personal insults at her. He also lied and denied tweeting that people should check out the Miss Universe "sex tape". I think that kind of rhetoric and easily verified lies alienates voters outside his base.

When Trump was making his scrambled comments about what he would do in Syria, the moderator pointed out that Pence said the opposite in the VP debate. Trump responded that he disagreed with Pence and hadn't talked to him about it.

Clinton did a good job, in my opinion, countering Trump's claim that she hasn't done anything in 35 years of public service and that she's all talk, no action. She effectively detailed accomplishments from her early days, first lady days, senatorial days, and Sec of State tenure, in my opinion.

I found the last audience question interesting; the man asked them each to say one thing they respect about the other. Clinton said she respected Trump's children and Trump by association. Trump said he respected that Clinton never gives up, she fights on (which I think is true and was a smart way for him to end the debate).

At the end of the day, I don't get the sense that this debate made much difference in the status of the election, unfortunately. However, I bet a lot of Republicans who didn't drop Trump are breathing a sigh of relief that he didn't blow chunks.

Did anybody else watch and have a different take?

[BigMark]

His nose breathing was a distraction and weak, he needed to control the debate and did this time. She did very well, then got on her broom and flew home!

[cannongal]

Did anybody else watch and have a different take?

I didn't watch it, mostly because I can't stand the sight of either one of them. However, after reading the cliff notes some several political sites:

I agree with Trump about the AHCA. It's a disaster, I knew it was a disaster the minute Obama signed it. My premiums tripled, my deductible went from $100.00 to $6,000.00, and half the meds weren't covered anymore.

Hillary made an announcement a few days back to the effect of "If Obama care gets rescinded, every single american reverts back to their previous health plan" Well, I gotta tell you, that wouldn't hurt my feelings at all, we had a much better plan before Obama Care came into play.

Trump said Hillary should be in Jail, and he's right. Debbie W. should be there right along with her. I mean, I always assumed it was against the law to rig any election, and there's e-mail proof that Hill and Deb conspired to rig the Democratic primaries, why is that ok?

Hillary said there was no evidence her email has been hacked by a foreign power, but yet, she totally blamed the Russians when those e-mails came out on wiki leaks.

The fact checkers say that a lot of what Trump said about Bill & Hillary is untrue. After reading most of the Statements, I think Trump gets his info from Facebook memes.

Speaking of Facebook, this popped up on my feed this morning:
(if it's gone, then photobucket took it down)


Interesting depiction of them....

[Duchess]

Did anybody else watch and have a different take?

I watched. It wasn't nearly as fun as the first one and it's too much to ask that he be truthful. Shit, he couldn't even tell the truth when it came to Bill's accusers. He could have got the media there by telling the truth, they would have been tripping over themselves in order to get the pix, instead he lied and told them to come and take pictures of his debate prep.

There's a lot of chatter about there being more video, audio, whatever, regarding Trump. I heard it said that people who spill the beans don't start out with their best stuff, they work up to the kill shot. I don't think they'll need it this time, he's pretty much history at this point.

[Maggot]

Trump had Clinton a bit flustered at a few points he made she deflected as much as he did on healthcare and Iraq. He had her cornered on Benghazi not much to say there. Trump handled the locker room talk well and deflected to actions vs, words well. Clinton did a good job at listing her accomplishments compared to his but I don't think people care about that. the moderators had to put both down a few times and tried to be careful about looking bias. Both got cheers from the crowd at talking points made, to me they both did a decent job with Trump doing better this time around than the first time although he started out a bit off. I believe this election will be very close.

[Duchess]

WahWahWah. Let the bawling begin. The moderators are sooooo unfair. Go Donald Go.

[Maggot]

There was a really huge guy in the audience and they put him behind a real small guy. It looked like the big guy had eaten 3 small guys he was that much bigger.

[HairOfTheDog]

There's a lot of chatter about there being more video, audio, whatever, regarding Trump. I heard it said that people who spill the beans don't start out with their best stuff, they work up to the kill shot. I don't think they'll need it this time, he's pretty much history at this point.

Yeah, I think he's toast as well and got the sense that he hesitated so much on saying that he didn't really sexually assault women (like he bragged he did on the 2005 hot mic tape) because Trump knows there's more to come. That's just my sense.

A while back I read about a sexual assault complaint he settled several years ago, before the 2005 recording. In the legal complaint doc, the married woman said Trump always tried to push himself on her at business encounters and that he'd groped her crotch, etc. I have a sense there's a lot more out there too and that his own words on tape will line up with allegations that have been made against him.

But, I think Trump was bound to lose before that 2005 tape was released based on his positions, public statements, and temperament anyway. I think his serious defects and unfitness were very clear in the first debate. Moving from his long-history of on-the-record sexist words and bragging (which he now explains as "just entertainment") to revelations of private bragging about compulsive non-consensual sexual conduct just helps to solidify his demise, in my opinion.

Anyway, the only surrogate who would represent Trump on the Sunday talk shows yesterday was Rudy Guilliani. He made the rounds. Rudy did not attempt to deny that what Trump bragged about doing was of course "sexual assault" because there was no consent according to Trump's own words. Rudy did say he didn't know if Trump really assaulted women or if he was for some reason exaggerating in the conversation with Billy Bush (who was just suspended pending investigation by NBC Today Show).

Some Trump supporters just don't care about anything Trump does and will continue to support him regardless. They admit that openly. I have more respect for them, by a hair, in this case than I do anyone who claims that compulsive non-consensual sexual contact is normal, or that bragging about that for any reason is normal, acceptable, or cool. I think trying to perpetuate that mindset is disrespectful and harmful to women and men. It's also insulting to all decent men to claim that "most/every man does it" or "most/every man brags about doing it". That's bullshit, only pieces of shit do that, same as always. I personally don't believe that most/all men are pieces of shit, not by a long shot.

Locker room talk about succeeding at attracting/getting pussy, rating tits, what a good (consensual) lay somebody was, and all that bullshit is what it is and probably always be. It's false and moronic to claim or believe that locker room talk is the same as (an aged man) bragging about compulsively using non-consensual physical contact/force towards women to get what he wants because he thinks he's entitled. Anyone who truly doesn't know the difference and hasn't known the difference since adulthood has a problem.

[Duchess]

Anyway, the only surrogate who would represent Trump on the Sunday talk shows yesterday was Rudy Guilliani. He made the rounds. Rudy did not attempt to deny that what Trump bragged about doing was of course "sexual assault" because there was no consent according to Trump's own words. Rudy did say he didn't know if Trump really assaulted women or if he was for some reason exaggerating in the conversation with Billy Bush (who was just suspended pending investigation by NBC Today Show).

Some Trump supporters just don't care about anything Trump does and will continue to support him regardless. They admit that openly. I have more respect for them, by a hair, in this case than I do anyone who claims that compulsive non-consensual sexual contact is normal, or that bragging about that for any reason is normal, acceptable, or cool. I think trying to perpetuate that mindset is disrespectful and harmful to women and men. It's also insulting to all decent men to claim that "most/every man does it" or "most/every man brags about doing it". That's bullshit, only pieces of shit do that, same as always. And, I personally don't believe that most/all men or pieces of shit, not by a long shot.

Locker room talk about succeeding at getting pussy, rating tits, what a good lay somebody was, and all that bullshit is what it is and probably always be. It's false and moronic to claim that locker room talk is the same as (an aged man) bragging about compulsively using non-consensual physical contact/force towards women to get what he wants because he thinks he's entitled. Anyone who truly doesn't know the difference and hasn't known the difference since adulthood has a problem.

I saw Rudy making the rounds, it was funny & pathetic at the same time.

Pence was interviewed this morning, he addressed a question in regards to Syria and a comment he had made, he said "provocations made by Russia need to be met with American strength". Last night Trump said he disagreed with that and while Martha read Pence's comment verbatim to Trump, Pence said he didn't say that, he said she is wrong. There's proof!

There have been a number of NFL players commenting on the locker room talk. They all say a version of no, that kind of talk does not go on in locker rooms they have been a part of.

[HairOfTheDog]

There have been a number of NFL players commenting on the locker room talk. They all say a version of no, that kind of talk does not go on in locker rooms they have been a part of.

Yeah, Bill Maher (lifelong bachelor who loves the ladies) said that he has never acted or talked like that and anyone who claims it's something all celebrities do is wrong. He said that he, of course, hasn't/doesn't do that shit.

Maher point blank asked all of his panelists if they ever had. Each did not hesitate to go on record confirming that's not something they've done or would do. They don't have to fear that there's any legitimate claim that can be made to the contrary.

Someone who thinks it's brag-worthy to make non-consensual sexual contact with women because he just can't help himself and can get away with it because he's a star........... is someone who likes to dominate/degrade others for ego-pumping. That's not the same as men who enjoy the perks of being able to attract/enjoy consensual sex with beautiful women due, at least in part, to their status (whether they brag about it or not). It's disappointing that more than a few grown adults can't seem to grasp (or admit) the simple and obvious differences.

[Maggot]

Anyone that would admit to saying "I would bend her over a table" or "I would stick my dick between her melons" especially on record would be either fired or be given game suspensions or whatever punishment that was deemed appropriate. But I highly doubt that they football players, sports stars, celebrities politicians have not said it at some point. Like I said many will say "hell no I'll never vote for him" but once alone in that box they will do what they want. It's all about what the outside shell shows, not what is the truth. Many people are very fake until they are caught, then they are sorry. Or just say they are. You people are truly deceiving yourselves if you believe otherwise.

[HairOfTheDog]

Hillary Clinton has doubled her lead over Trump and leads him by 14 points nationally in a head-to-head race, according to the new NBC/WSJ survey poll. She's also cracked the 50% mark. Clinton 52%, Trump 38%.

Trump lost about 15% of Republicans as compared to the previous poll.

The poll was taken after the grope tape release and before last night's debate.

Ref: http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-re...ts-n663691

[sally]

Hotd keeps talking about his comments like they are fact. Is it possible the man was just talking shit and if so, so fucking what. I do it all the time. I dont want to vote for that fucking doofus but hes looking way better than the elite politicians who are desperate to stay in power. Youre sad that people would still vote for him over his silly ass comments, im said you dumbasses want to keep criminals in power.

[sally]

I wont vote for someone I dont like, refuse to. But I can see reasons for each side and for people to talk down to someone for their vote is a stupid prick. So far here ive only seen that on the hillary wagon. Losers.

[sally]

Double penetration

[BigMark]

[Duchess]

Hahahaha! Fuckin' people

[HairOfTheDog]

Hotd keeps talking about his comments like they are fact. Is it possible the man was just talking shit and if so, so fucking what. I do it all the time. I dont want to vote for that fucking doofus but hes looking way better than the elite politicians who are desperate to stay in power. Youre sad that people would still vote for him over his silly ass comments, im said you dumbasses want to keep criminals in power.

Jesus Christ, sally. That's not what I've been saying at all.

What I said is that it's sad, to me, to see people attempting to equate normal locker room talk..with... bragging about being able to get away with NON-CONSENSUAL/FORCED SEXUAL CONTACT.

If people don't consider that tape disqualifying, I understand. If I thought Trump was an otherwise qualified or better candidate and I was convinced that Clinton was the devil who'd drive the country into the fiery pits of hell, I might not consider that tape a vote-breaker either.

However, if I continued to support Trump after the tape release, I would not try to make a false equivalency excuse that bragging about compulsive sexual assault is the same as normal locker room talk. I think that's some sad asinine bullshit.

Likewise, if Hillary Clinton was caught on 10 year old tape bragging about how she couldn't help herself from forcibly kissing, grabbing cock, and trying to fuck handsome diplomats without consent, I wouldn't claim that was normal behavior or just typical girls' talk, whether I decided to vote for her or not. That too would be some sad asinine bullshit.

I've overhead my nephew engaged in normal locker room talk (great lays, nice tits, wanna get some of that...) with his buddies a few times. It didn't make me proud or anything, but I didn't consider it a problem.

If I'd instead heard him bragging about forcibly kissing, grabbing pussy, grabbing tits, trying to fuck...any woman he wanted, without consent, because he thought he was entitled, you bet your ass I'd have been all over it. That would not be normal locker room talk, it could cause him serious problems, and it could mean he was inflicting harm on women. I'd be relieved if it turned out he lied about being sexually predatory, but it would still be a problem that he felt compelled to lie/brag about being a sexual assaulter for some reason and would need to be seriously addressed. If he deflected and said somebody else did worse, it wouldn't hold any water with me.

I wouldn't hold a 59-year-old wordly man to a lower standard than I would my 19-year-old nephew, even if that man wasn't now running for the President of the U.S.

If you STILL don't get it and wanna call me another very hurtful name, you can just grab my pussy and lick it, lick it good. (<-- hint for sally; it's okay for you to do it and/or brag about doing it BECAUSE YOU HAVE MY CONSENT.)