Johnny S. Clarke & Lisa Straub- young Ohio couple murdered

[JsMom]

yah maybe they dont! OK then, do u think in this case, that if they do FIND OUT whoms DNA it is they would make it public for the world to help find the murders? I know alot of cases they dont but this one being world wide so horrific and everyone involved they would?

Only if LE is unable to locate the suspects they have identified based on the DNA found at the home, then I would think they would make the suspects known so the public can help locate them. At least that makes sense to me and is how it SHOULD work.
[/quote]

I agree!

[van64]

Going back to evidence collected and LE's initial comments, as well as Maytee and TW's...

I remember LE's statement that when they first arrived on scene all the lights were on and the TV was on, but TW claims when she went there to check on them the only light on was by the stairwell and a closet door was open. Now according to her she went out there approximately an hour after her conversation with JC at 11 PM and the police arrived around 1ish AM.

So if TW's account is true (ha) then the perps would have been there at 11PM when she was on the phone w/ JC, either left before Midnight or decided at that time to watch TV and leave sometime before LE went back to the house after the second 911 call...am I missing something cause if so, this totally begins to change my theory...AND makes me wonder about LE seizing a DVD into evidence...

I think your critical thinking skills are spot on. IF TW's account is accurate.

[JsMom]

GeeZ, I just can NOT get over the manner in which this happened to these 2 beautiful and handsome kids! Tares me up inside! I can NOT even imagine how these parents fell knowing not only that they will never SEE, HOLD, TOUCH, TALK, SMELL their child anymore but they were took in such a horrific manner by the hands of another!!!!!!! I FEEL terrible for all the family and friends involved. just HEART SHATTERING!!

Agreed. It is surreal, is what it is. Then my mind begins to wondering just how it all played out...did Johnny or Lisa know any of the perps? Did the perps have a gun and held it on them pretty much instantly? At what point did Johnny and Lisa realize they were going to die? I think it's all this wondering about what happened next that tears me up inside too about this case, even though dead is dead. The perps must be found and brought to justice.

Yes they really do need to be found!

[Inspector Gary]

[/size]

i want to know who the people who don't need cops call when they are robbed at gunpoint or beaten or raped.

THANK YOU LC!!! My husband is in LE and I would prefer that HE NOT risk HIS LIFE for THOSE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!! But NO!!! He risks his life for THOSE people with every car stop that he makes and every call that he answers!!! ABSOLUTELY NO APPRECIATION OR RESPECT!!! For those of you who feel this way, how about NOT calling on LE when YOU need help!!!

Your husband chose his profession and your husband is paid for it. I pray he is never harmed in this line of work but it is a very risky job and in fact, as hijacked as the judicial system is in this country, I for one remain surprised that there are not more LE personnel killed each year than there are, especially judges.

We had a state trooper killed a few miles from where I live, a couple of years ago. The guy was travelling from Florida with his registration and driver's license paperwork in perfect order. The trooper stopped him and apparently became belligerent with the motorist. I can see this happening easily in my mind's eye because I have seen it on the undercover cop shows. There are some LE personnel (not saying all are that way of course) who are arrogant and overbearing. This state trooper was pushing his weight around that night and as it so happened, he was pushing his luck around. As the trooper begged for his life, the motorist ended it. Unfortunately, you can see the motorist's point of view. Everything is legal. He has been stopped and now he has a state trooper with an attitude on his hands and he snaps... he simply is not going to take it any longer. The motorist is facing the prospect of life in jail if not the needle (I think he should get the needle) but had the state trooper been a more respectful individual of a motorist he most certainly would be alive today to see his newborn child.

Now, while the motorist's paperwork was in order, he was carrying drugs. Once again, one can make the argument that if you do not give a law enforcement individual a reason to lose their lives, that person would still be alive. It is just a shame to see one man dead and another man's life ruined over a handful of pills. There has to be a better way when you consider societies have been using and abusing 'controlled substances' for generations and it didn't harm them.

NO, I CAN NOT SEE THE MOTORIST'S POINT OF VIEW!!

I think it is safe to say that whatever field of work you are in, that pretty much everyone has to deal with people that are unpleasant, in various ways. Fortunately, NOT everyone goes on a psychotic rage killing people when they get their panties in a wad!

For the trooper, it was probably DEALING with ASSHOLES like you "who understand" why someone would KILL because they didn't like a perceived "arrogant or overbearing" attitude.

You're right, when people empathize with the likes of that cop killer, it is surprising that more cops aren't killed!! AND after dealing with an endless torrent of ASSHOLES and other vile people, it speaks to the incredible amount of self-control and character of LE (as a whole) that more assholes aren't killed by cops sick of their BULLSHIT!!! That is, IF you are going to give excuse to someone snapping and killing because of people who are "arrogant or overbearing!" How do you think the vast majority of people treat cops????

I think LC will agree that she has dealt with plenty of people whom she would have rather not have to "take it any longer" when they were not only being arrogant and overbearing, BUT violent, threatening, offensive, etc, etc.!!!!

[van64]

Im surious of that too. I remeber her saying the only light on was the light leading to the upstairs! good point out!
[/quote]

OK OK but but, didn't Maytee say that you couldn't see inside and that someone in her family had to be hoisted onto someone's shoulders in order to be able to see between/up/over the curtains? So if TW saw a closet door being open (and other reports had her saying the place was ransacked) then how did she see a closet door being open?

[eye.of.my]

Im surious of that too. I remeber her saying the only light on was the light leading to the upstairs! good point out!

OK OK but but, didn't Maytee say that you couldn't see inside and that someone in her family had to be hoisted onto someone's shoulders in order to be able to see between/up/over the curtains? So if TW saw a closet door being open (and other reports had her saying the place was ransacked) then how did she see a closet door being open?
[/quote]

Appearantly the house being ransacked was added by Maytee not TW. Not sure cause I had them exact same thoughts you do and I am now stuck with a notebook of "notes" and no happy ending.

[van64]

This is long, sorry...

There are many reasons for giving up your DNA, my sister disappeared in 1983 and it took us over 19yrs.....

Sometimes police will get a DNA hit because of familial DNA, a close family member, also. That may have been what happened in Mich. to the guy in prison??

Wow, Kat, what a terrible story. I'm so glad that you had resolution and found out what happened. What awesome detectives, too. So many families go through that and never find out. The stats at The Center for Missing and Exploited Children are MIND BOGGLING. The numbers of missing people is just staggering and many of these go back decades.

Of course, I would consent to DNA testing in a situation like that. What I was saying is that I would not give it up unless absolutely necessary and I wouldn't want it in some data base. There's a lot more going on with DNA collection than catching criminals but that's another subject. Suffice it to say that I am very suspicious about it and I value privacy.

On that Michigan case, once again: DNA testing was done 30 years after the murder. It matched a guy sitting in prison. That guy was a little child when the murder occurred and lived in another city. He could not have been the killer. I think the DNA was recovered blood from the victim's nylons. The only thing that I can think of to explain it is that the lab was sloppy and mixed up DNA, or some adult in that little kid's life killed the victim. Even then, they were claiming it was his blood. How would the blood of a little child have gotten on her nylons?

This doesn't mean that I don't think DNA testing is a good thing. It's been used to free many innocent people from death row and it has convicted killers. It's the kind of thing, though, that tight controls need to be put on. The FBI was exposed for sloppy lab work and a technician who falsified evidence. I don't recall if that evidence was DNA but it's something to think about. Chain of custody is lost, imo, once your DNA goes to a lab because people can and do lie or just screw up.

Very interesting, indeed. The labs obviously need to be totally and completely autonomous from LE, held to the highest standards with extreme penalties for falsifying data, etc. I just do not understand how the DNA could have been fucked up in the case of the guy in Michigan. That does not make any sense to me at all because all along I have led to believe that DNA is bullet proof.

There seems to be a general consensus of thought that the duct tape holds vast amounts of DNA of the perps who did in Johnny and Lisa. That makes sense because it would be hard to do that job wearing gloves or even with a tape dispenser. Using those dispensers is like trying to coral a herd of cats.

[ZEROSPHERES]

Just a note about DNA...............................I am not connected with law enforcement and never have been. But I have a healthy interest in society and the laws.

Very Informative...Thanks Methu

zero

[van64]

I've mentioned, here, that I followed the Smiley Face murder story for a while. Those murders have occurred all over the country, mostly in the midwest. The two detectives working that case are from New York City, both retired and using their own money. Incredible and amazing men.
[/quote]

I have read about and watched a piece or two on youtube about their theories. Extremely interesting, yes. The one thing making me think there might be a SFK is prior to a certain year in the 1990s, these young men did NOT go missing. If it were a clear cut case of getting drunk and falling into a body of water, that phenomenon would not have manifested itself in any given year but would have been occurring for generations.

[Methusala]

It may take years, but they will catch them. Check this out in
today's news.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/03/...und&st=cse

"Investigators reportedly got Thomas' DNA off a discarded cigarette."

With apologies to George Carlin, I say "Smoke up, rapists!"

[JsMom]

Im surious of that too. I remeber her saying the only light on was the light leading to the upstairs! good point out!

OK OK but but, didn't Maytee say that you couldn't see inside and that someone in her family had to be hoisted onto someone's shoulders in order to be able to see between/up/over the curtains? So if TW saw a closet door being open (and other reports had her saying the place was ransacked) then how did she see a closet door being open?
[/quote]

well right in front of the front door was the stairway leading to the parents room upstairs. I think Maytee ment she couldnt see anyhting wrong from the front door so went around back to get a closer look and hoisted her cousin up to the kitchen window! I think that right! If Im wrong someone please correct me.

[van64]

Just a note about DNA. The latest statistics reflect that approximately 40%of births in the US occur outside of marriage. In almost all births outside of marriage, the assistance of the law is sought to either obtain government assistance to cover the costs of birthing expenses and living expenses and/or child support.

All such cases where government assistance by support or legal process is sought now require the taking of DNA from the mother, the child and the reputed father, even when the latter admits paternity (he sometimes turns out to be wrong!) and when more than one man is named, all the men are joined and required to submit to DNA. Usually by a simple buckle swab to the inside of the cheek.

Therefore, the DNA bank is growing larger by the day, and will soon likely include at least one person in the familial line for each member of the population.

In addition, if you have ever had any blood or tissue sample sent to a laboratory, a significant percentage are retained under slide. Which is just good medical practice, especially for example to follow the progress of so-called pre-cancer cells.

I do not consider any of this to be a so-called "invasion of privacy" simply because in each instance there is a triggering event which constitutes a legitimate waiver of the privilege, and it is leading and will continue to lead to many societal benefits, including the solving of cold case crimes, more convictions of persons rightfully accused of crime, more rapid convictions, less "pleading down" because of evidentiary problems, more innocent people being released from prisons or exonerated quicker in new cases, etc.

Thanks to DNA, many murderers now plead to first degree murder charges just to avoid the death penalty, in cases where the DA previously was willing to accept a plea to 2^nd degree or even manslaughter.

I am not connected with law enforcement and never have been. But I have a healthy interest in society and the laws.

But all this DNA info obtained from these different sources is not banked now and given to LE, correct? I would imagine a huge outcry if it were. I personally do not have a problem with a fingerprint bank or with a DNA bank if you can assure me both will never be misused by LE. Unfortunately, I think we can assume it WILL be misused by LE at some point in time. You would have to have civilians place extreme penalities on its misuse and you would have to have strict guidelines governing its use.

[van64]

My husband had to shoot (didn't kill him) an uninvited person in our home. Although it was clearly self defense, my husband had wounds from the guy beating on him, he was initially charged with Felonious Assult . It never went to grand jury because the Prosecutor didn't wish to procede.

This is not the reporting officers fault, they can only write a report with the facts they have available at the time and, for whatever reason they felt a charge of felonious assult was warranted. HOWEVER, the Prosecutor felt differently, the evidence to convict wasn't there.

In my opinion, there's a BIG difference between a charge on a police report and a CONVICTION. [/size][/color]

Wait, you were broken in on? How did the uninvited guest arrive?

[van64]

It may take years, but they will catch them. Check this out in
today's news.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/03/...und&st=cse

Very informative. Thanks for the link!

[Inspector Gary]

This is long, sorry...

There are many reasons for giving up your DNA, my sister disappeared in 1983 and it took us over 19yrs, fucking 19yrs before they would even accept her as a missing person, she lived in Chicago...she disappeared in Canada...Chicago sent us to Canada....Canada sent us to Chicago...The FBI sent us back to Chicago...and NONE of these MOTHERFUCKERS would do anything because she wasn't officially a Missing Person, I got the whole catch 22 run around for 19yrs!! I wrote more letters than you can imagine, checked hospitals, institutions, churches in the area she disappeared from, check routes that she may have traveled to get to Canada, most of my family had given up or died, my mother died never knowing what happened to her daughter, only myself and my younger sister wouldn't let it go, my other siblings just let it go...I couldn't, she was my big sister, who we called "Sissie". When I got my first computer in the 90's I found a group on the internet called The Doe Network and this was set up for missing and unidentified woman, they also required a formal missing persons report but the Administrator made an exception because of the years and effort involved on my part in trying to get my sister disappearance classified as a missing person...long story made really, really, terribly short here...in 2002 we got someone in the Canada end of things to finally help, he was an Angel of a cop let me tell you, CAM MOORE of the Moosejaw, SK police, he also was involved in a Cold Case group, Project Resolve, it was his hobby, not official. There were a few unidentified females that could have been my sister, and Cam got the Canooks to pay for the DNA test, so yes I RAN, ME THE ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT HIPPIE FROM THE 60'S, TO GIVE UP MY DNA AS FAST AS I COULD TO THE LOCAL COPS AND SAID SWAB. My sister was found in 2005 she had died in 1987(only 4 short years later)under an alias and was buried under that alias. She was showing signs of mental illness before she left for this Canada trip, but little did we know just how bad things were (she became a full blown paranoid/schizophrenic). I wasn't living in Chicago and hadn't seen her for about 3yrs. so I really had no idea, she was very good at keeping up a I'm okay face. She died of natural causes, a pulmonary embolism. I had even contacted the detectives that were on the Green River Killer case thinking she may been one of his victims and Det. Jensen of that case was just wonderful to me, he checked every known data base he could for me, even though he believed my sister wasn't one of the victims because the GR killer had a type, still he told me how to get things done, how to approach the police, because no cop wants a cold case handed to them. The Canadian officer (a selfless, decent, giving human being) who cracked this case, Corpral Cam Moore, passed away a few years later of cancer, so it was like fate that we some how connected. But I gave my DNA up in a flash!! Sorry for the long story..but you would be surprised how fast you'd give up some DNA!!

Sometimes police will get a DNA hit because of familial DNA, a close family member, also. That may have been what happened in Mich. to the guy in prison??

So sorry to hear your story!! What an awful thing to go through, all the unknowns and unanswered questions for SO long!!! Glad you finally were able to find out what happended and were able to have closure.

[van64]

Just a note about DNA. The latest statistics reflect that approximately 40%of births in the US occur outside of marriage. In almost all births outside of marriage, the assistance of the law is sought to either obtain government assistance to cover the costs of birthing expenses and living expenses and/or child support.

All such cases where government assistance by support or legal process is sought now require the taking of DNA from the mother, the child and the reputed father, even when the latter admits paternity (he sometimes turns out to be wrong!) and when more than one man is named, all the men are joined and required to submit to DNA. Usually by a simple buckle swab to the inside of the cheek.

Therefore, the DNA bank is growing larger by the day, and will soon likely include at least one person in the familial line for each member of the population.

In addition, if you have ever had any blood or tissue sample sent to a laboratory, a significant percentage are retained under slide. Which is just good medical practice, especially for example to follow the progress of so-called pre-cancer cells.

I do not consider any of this to be a so-called "invasion of privacy" simply because in each instance there is a triggering event which constitutes a legitimate waiver of the privilege, and it is leading and will continue to lead to many societal benefits, including the solving of cold case crimes, more convictions of persons rightfully accused of crime, more rapid convictions, less "pleading down" because of evidentiary problems, more innocent people being released from prisons or exonerated quicker in new cases, etc.

Thanks to DNA, many murderers now plead to first degree murder charges just to avoid the death penalty, in cases where the DA previously was willing to accept a plea to 2^nd degree or even manslaughter.

I am not connected with law enforcement and never have been. But I have a healthy interest in society and the laws.

The use of DNA to convict or exonerate is fine. The nanny state collecting it on people who don't have the intellectual capacity to understand their rights is another matter.

You sound like a collectivist believing in some "greater good" usurping the unalienable rights of the individual. I consider myself at war with that mentality. That's the mentality that exists in places like the UK. It is completely contrary to every principal that our founders held dear.

I do not consider any of this to be a so-called "invasion of privacy" simply because in each instance there is a triggering event which constitutes a legitimate waiver of the privilege...

Unalienable rights are not "privileges" doled out by the state. The state of Texas was caught surreptitiously collecting the DNA of newborns and they have been forced to destroy it. Parents thought the blood spots were just to check for diseases and did not consent to this big brother cataloguing of human beings as though they were the property of the state - or big pharma. Giving up ones unique life blueprint should be done by choice, not stealth.

Very, very well said!

[ZEROSPHERES]

I read that Ohio just passed the law allowing DNA on arrest for a felony but that they do not have the funding in place. So new law not yet happening. But if the guilty party has already been convicted of a felony, Toledo is good to go.

But then I read in the news that this asswipe was arrested and charged with a horrendous murder all because of a DNA match made after an arrest for an unrelated felony.

http://crimevoice.com/dna-match-may-have...rder-3411/

They got the bastard and he will be held accountable.

So if someone close to me gets the DNA swab in a messed up situation, so be it. Stop getting yourself in messed-up situations.

TOTALLY agree with you Adub, it's a bullshit law...but, we're getting it.

Anyone in Ohio "ARRESTED" on a felony will have to submit to DNA as of July 1, 2011.
Here is a portion of the O.R.C.

LAW Writer® Ohio Laws and Rules Search ORC
» Title [29] XXIX CRIMES - PROCEDURE»

Chapter 2901: GENERAL PROVISIONS

2901.07 DNA specimen collection procedure.


In my opinion, there's a BIG difference between a charge on a police report and a CONVICTION.

In the future the taking of DNA will be like taking your "picture". It may become standard at the time of birth like taking a babys footprint. This coupled with that "Mark of the Beast" (basically a barcode that tracks your movements on some credit cards now) will really concentrate power under one central authority. And here I thought Facebook was invasive.

[NightOwl]

So not sure if I missed it or not but has anyone read BA's fb? Maybe their relationship was more than "friends"?.JMO.

Do you mean BD an ex-boyfriend?

[van64]

NO, I CAN NOT SEE THE MOTORIST'S POINT OF VIEW!!

I think it is safe to say that whatever field of work you are in, that pretty much everyone has to deal with people that are unpleasant, in various ways. Fortunately, NOT everyone goes on a psychotic rage killing people when they get their panties in a wad!

For the trooper, it was probably DEALING with ASSHOLES like you "who understand" why someone would KILL because they didn't like a perceived "arrogant or overbearing" attitude.

You're right, when people empathize with the likes of that cop killer, it is surprising that more cops aren't killed!! AND after dealing with an endless torrent of ASSHOLES and other vile people, it speaks to the incredible amount of self-control and character of LE (as a whole) that more assholes aren't killed by cops sick of their BULLSHIT!!! That is, IF you are going to give excuse to someone snapping and killing because of people who are "arrogant or overbearing!" How do you think the vast majority of people treat cops????

I think LC will agree that she has dealt with plenty of people whom she would have rather not have to "take it any longer" when they were not only being arrogant and overbearing, BUT violent, threatening, offensive, etc, etc.!!!!
[/quote]

I am the first to say the motorist should get the needle. His actions are inexcusable BUT as a LE personnel, you see all the time on TV how arrogant they are/can be when they go to stop an individual. The motorist admitted that the officer was aggressive with him. Unfortunately, there are a certain few to whose head the power acts as a drug. It is these few that extreme laws must be passed and applied but it is going to take educating the public and reworking how LE acts and operates in this country. I don't see either happening any time soon. These freedoms we take for granted are not free and I assure you there are people out there, your husband's ilk among them, who would sew our freedoms up so fast, we would be nothing more than a controlled police state. It is that we have to fight against. But you know what? BOMBSHELL: we shouldn't have to even be fighting against it because the constitution is quite clear on many things and even then, the judicial system ends up hijacking it.

[eye.of.my]

No Iam talking about the girl that was with him before he left to pick Lisa up. But I allready killed my theory on that, sorry.