12-14-2010, 01:33 AM
username....no,.. not at all..I did not mean at all that only way women or men could move up the ladder was by such actions but it was in response to the comment that it was a equal playing field and in fact,those that wished to do that could definatly move up the ladder much quicker,at any point and the opp to do so is very prevelant.
I have come across quite a few managers in my career that I highly respected because they were fair and decent in the way they handled their responsibilities.They were caught between a rock and a hard place,and as you said,...it was buisness.
BUT...they handled themselves with respect and honor.What they said was factual and when layoffs or hard times or even during disiplainary issues,they treated the workers with compassion and concern and fairness(meaning all employee's would receive same actions for similar infractions) which to me = respect.These managers could ask any task or responsibility from me and I would go way out of the way to accomadiate them.To this day I could go to them for a referance.
Now,..on the other hand.The managers I have come across(mostly middle management) who would take advantage of a woman who wanted to trade sexual favors for promitional consideration or job security was rampant.Especially among employers where upper management did the same.
Those employers where upper management did not allow such actions was able to stem the abuse to a degree but it still occured...just very slyly and to a lesser amount.
When I said "sell your soul"...guess I better explain that better.I dont mean you would comprimise all your beliefs or morals but that you would need to do things that you did not believe was just and honest and not say shit about it.If you spoke out and was ignored, you still had the balls to disagree,that is different and does not come into the classification of the people I am speaking of...it is the ones who watched things happen that adversly and seriously affected others lives and their families and choose to say nothing in order to secure and advance their own career.
Now in fairness to both of us,we were in different worlds in the respect that I for most of my years was in the Trades...Welding, Electrical contractors,large and small fabrication shops,government contracted fabrication shops,service realated industry....and also in the respect we were also in different levels of those worlds...I was at the bottom level,so to speak and you were on the professional level.We were in different enviroments and saw different issues.
Can you honestly tell me that,in your position,that would for many respects would be considered equal to the men on your same level and also have the authority to possibly change or stop something you felt was illegal or corrupt,if such things were happening within your company...do you feel they would make you privvy to those secrets.
Especially since you seem to have been one of those rare managers that would have spoke out?
I'm sure I have seem more of this that you may have because of the field of work I have been in but that could be incorrect.
Now,yes,...I would have to say you are correct that I am probly guilty of a overall generalization,in many respects but in my defense,...I make opinions by the things that I see and experience and I have seen much more of the former than the latter.
In your defense,...you are also most definatly correct that the workforce today consists of an overabundance of lazy basturds who think they are entitled to everything from the day you hire them.We can hire 10 to find 1 keeper.These are not the people either that I am speaking of in this thread and that is my fault for not making this clearer.
I am speaking of those who come to work to work and pay their dues and in turn receive the rewards of that labor.Those that are not slackers and pull their share of the weight but also expect to treated respectfully for that effort.People who come to work to work their way up the ladder by their honest efforts.
By the way,...no...I am definatly not a Arsonist
but do definatly enjoy the smell of a campfire and in fact do go out of my way to clear area's of the property of old tree's in order to have some burn piles from time to time.That's as close to Arsonist I could be.
Like I said at the beginning of this thread...dont agree with the way the peckerhead is going about making his point on the eastern seaboard,just maybe his frustration.
I have come across quite a few managers in my career that I highly respected because they were fair and decent in the way they handled their responsibilities.They were caught between a rock and a hard place,and as you said,...it was buisness.
BUT...they handled themselves with respect and honor.What they said was factual and when layoffs or hard times or even during disiplainary issues,they treated the workers with compassion and concern and fairness(meaning all employee's would receive same actions for similar infractions) which to me = respect.These managers could ask any task or responsibility from me and I would go way out of the way to accomadiate them.To this day I could go to them for a referance.
Now,..on the other hand.The managers I have come across(mostly middle management) who would take advantage of a woman who wanted to trade sexual favors for promitional consideration or job security was rampant.Especially among employers where upper management did the same.
Those employers where upper management did not allow such actions was able to stem the abuse to a degree but it still occured...just very slyly and to a lesser amount.
When I said "sell your soul"...guess I better explain that better.I dont mean you would comprimise all your beliefs or morals but that you would need to do things that you did not believe was just and honest and not say shit about it.If you spoke out and was ignored, you still had the balls to disagree,that is different and does not come into the classification of the people I am speaking of...it is the ones who watched things happen that adversly and seriously affected others lives and their families and choose to say nothing in order to secure and advance their own career.
Now in fairness to both of us,we were in different worlds in the respect that I for most of my years was in the Trades...Welding, Electrical contractors,large and small fabrication shops,government contracted fabrication shops,service realated industry....and also in the respect we were also in different levels of those worlds...I was at the bottom level,so to speak and you were on the professional level.We were in different enviroments and saw different issues.
Can you honestly tell me that,in your position,that would for many respects would be considered equal to the men on your same level and also have the authority to possibly change or stop something you felt was illegal or corrupt,if such things were happening within your company...do you feel they would make you privvy to those secrets.
Especially since you seem to have been one of those rare managers that would have spoke out?
I'm sure I have seem more of this that you may have because of the field of work I have been in but that could be incorrect.
Now,yes,...I would have to say you are correct that I am probly guilty of a overall generalization,in many respects but in my defense,...I make opinions by the things that I see and experience and I have seen much more of the former than the latter.
In your defense,...you are also most definatly correct that the workforce today consists of an overabundance of lazy basturds who think they are entitled to everything from the day you hire them.We can hire 10 to find 1 keeper.These are not the people either that I am speaking of in this thread and that is my fault for not making this clearer.
I am speaking of those who come to work to work and pay their dues and in turn receive the rewards of that labor.Those that are not slackers and pull their share of the weight but also expect to treated respectfully for that effort.People who come to work to work their way up the ladder by their honest efforts.
By the way,...no...I am definatly not a Arsonist
but do definatly enjoy the smell of a campfire and in fact do go out of my way to clear area's of the property of old tree's in order to have some burn piles from time to time.That's as close to Arsonist I could be.Like I said at the beginning of this thread...dont agree with the way the peckerhead is going about making his point on the eastern seaboard,just maybe his frustration.