An interview with Ferguson residents.

[Maggot]

Well not Ferguson residents but........close, real close.





My head hurts!

[blueberryhill]

Cute, Maggs, but some white people are just as stupid. Did you ever watch Jay Leno's Jaywalk (think that is what they called it) skits. A white teacher once said the U.S. was in South America when asked what continent it was located. I recently took a test to determine what party I should belong to based on my beliefs and value system. I ended up being about even as far as conservative and liberal so don't be calling me a @#$% liberal, o.k.? I was only a few percentage points above conservative beliefs over liberal platform. Well, maybe only 20% but that even surprised me..

[Cutz]

[HairOfTheDog]

Directly from Ferguson

Some of the stupidest things I've seen come out of the Ferguson fiasco are from the mouths and fingertips of police officers sworn and paid to protect their community.

Dan Page. 35-year-veteran of St. Louis police and former member of the US Armed Services -- ranting away about how women waste police officers' time with domestic violence calls and that such couples should just kill each other before he kills them. He also has some real sage advice for the sodomites and others who behave in a manner to which he objects and whom he could be prompted to kill without an afterthought. Page was doing crowd control during the recent protests in Ferguson, before he was relieved of duty.

Here's just 5 minutes of Dan the hater in all of his glory.


Then there's another Glendale cop, Mathhew Pappert, sharing his brilliant commentary about the protests in his community. Here are his words posted on Facebook before he was suspended.

“These protesters should have been put down like a rabid dog the first night.”

"Where is a Muslim with a backpack when you need them?” he wrote in another post, according to AFP.

"I'm sick of these protesters. You are a burden on society and a blight on the community."


Are these two cops representative of the whole force? IDK -- but there's not doubt whatsoever they're a part of the force (for now). There are surely cops who wouldn't rather kill than serve members of the public who they don't like, IMO. Just like there are protestors who feel that they have legitimate complaints and are airing them in attempt to affect change and get what they perceive to be justice (vs. those who just wanna be a part of the crowd and stir shit).

[Blindgreed1]

Cute, Maggs, but some white people are just as stupid. Did you ever watch Jay Leno's Jaywalk (think that is what they called it) skits. A white teacher once said the U.S. was in South America when asked what continent it was located. I recently took a test to determine what party I should belong to based on my beliefs and value system. I ended up being about even as far as conservative and liberal so don't be calling me a @#$% liberal, o.k.? I was only a few percentage points above conservative beliefs over liberal platform. Well, maybe only 20% but that even surprised me..

Fuckin Duuuuumb is duuuuumb, regardless of color.

[Duchess]

“These protesters should have been put down like a rabid dog the first night.”

"Where is a Muslim with a backpack when you need them?” he wrote in another post, according to AFP.

"I'm sick of these protesters. You are a burden on society and a blight on the community."

He needs to be relieved of his duties. I don't know what more proof they could possibly need to ascertain he has no business policing anyone.

[Blindgreed1]

Well not Ferguson residents but........close, real close.





My head hurts!

I'm hijacking this video.

[Cutz]

I don't think Dan Page sounds a whole lot different from any other 80 year old man I've heard rant. I mean...

Next thing they will get a trophy for showing up

They already do. They have awards for perfect attendance, as well as "most improved attendance." We're raising underachievers here.

Is that a whole lot different from saying that minorities and women are so concerned with being special interests that they've crossed the plateau of equality and are now superior?

[Maggot]

Cute, Maggs, but some white people are just as stupid. Did you ever watch Jay Leno's Jaywalk (think that is what they called it) skits. A white teacher once said the U.S. was in South America when asked what continent it was located. I recently took a test to determine what party I should belong to based on my beliefs and value system. I ended up being about even as far as conservative and liberal so don't be calling me a @#$% liberal, o.k.? I was only a few percentage points above conservative beliefs over liberal platform. Well, maybe only 20% but that even surprised me..

well...........I never!

[HairOfTheDog]

He needs to be relieved of his duties. I don't know what more proof they could possibly need to ascertain he has no business policing anyone.

I agree. He's exactly the kinda cop that some of the residents of Ferguson are protesting and I don't blame them. Not only does he despise and express a desire to exterminate people in the community he's sworn to protect, but his hatred is so strong that he spewed it publicly and for the record as if it was acceptable. Dangerous to pay and arm him to police anything or anyone. He's now fired.

And, it's not only Page the hater and Pappert the wanna-be exterminator who've shown their true colors in the wake of the Michael Brown killing.

Ray Albers -- long time member of he St. Ann's police department resigned yesterday. He was initially supported by chief Jimenez, but an internal inquiry of his actions at a Ferguson protest last week resulted in him being given two choices -- resign or be fired.

I get why Albers would be irritated and I don't care that he wasn't handing out lollipops to the crowd -- he had a serious job to do. He reportedly saw a bee bee gun raised in the crowd and heard a shot from another gun (knowing it wasn't that bee bee gun). So, he raised his gun -- I don't blame him for that, though some do. But, then, knowing there was no threat in front of him, he continued to tell people in the crowd, "I will fucking kill you!". When he was asked his name, he responded "go fuck yourself". Another officer then comes over and tells him to lower the gun. All on video.



I saw the Michael Brown liquor store video. I don't think that kid should be canonized - that's stupid. But, did Brown do anything to justify being killed? I don't know. Maybe the officer who shot him was defending himself. Or, maybe he was like Page, Pappert and Albers and viewed Brown as a vermin who he was entitled to kill or threaten to kill; even if Brown presented no threat to the officer's life.

[Cutz]

I saw the Michael Brown liquor store video. I don't think that kid should be canonized - that's stupid. But, did Brown do anything to justify being killed? I don't know. Maybe the officer who shot him was defending himself. Or, maybe he was like Page, Pappert and Albers and viewed Brown as a vermin who he was entitled to kill or threaten to kill; even if Brown presented no threat to the officer's life.

Until you find a facebook post by the officer who did the shooting saying that black children deserve to be shot in the street, you're grouping every cop in the same pool. By that logic, I can say that you must want to rape and murder children... because someone from your state once did.

Taking issue with hateful and irrational things police officers say and do in response to riots is one thing... implying that an event occurred because all police are like that is a complete assumption.

[HairOfTheDog]

I saw the Michael Brown liquor store video. I don't think that kid should be canonized - that's stupid. But, did Brown do anything to justify being killed? I don't know. Maybe the officer who shot him was defending himself. Or, maybe he was like Page, Pappert and Albers and viewed Brown as a vermin who he was entitled to kill or threaten to kill; even if Brown presented no threat to the officer's life.

Until you find a facebook post by the officer who did the shooting saying that black children deserve to be shot in the street, you're grouping every cop in the same pool. By that logic, I can say that you must want to rape and murder children... because someone from your state once did.

Taking issue with hateful and irrational things police officers say and do in response to riots is one thing... implying that an event occurred because all police are like that is a complete assumption.

Are you drinking, Cutz?

I made no such implications or assumptions, preacher man.

See bolded text.

[Duchess]

did Brown do anything to justify being killed?

I don't know because I don't feel like I can even trust eyewitness reports. I feel like both sides have an agenda, the police want to justify the shooting and the citizens are treating the dead guy as the second coming and comparing him to Jesus Christ. The only thing I have to go on is the video I saw of him intimidating the clerk and stealing. I don't think it's a stretch to believe he acted in a similar way with the cop.

[HairOfTheDog]

Yeah, there are definitely different agendas and a variety of perspectives from those directly involved in law enforcement, the residents of Ferguson and surrounding communities, the media, and we who are following the story.

I don't have a firm opinion about whether the shooting was justified or not either -- too many conflicting accounts by the witnesses.

I've seen some people in and outside of the Ferguson community hailing Michael Brown as a hero -- to me, that's over-the-top. He may have been a victim of a wrongful shooting death, that's what's being investigated. But, I haven't seen anything to indicate that he was a saintly or heroic person.

I understand the protests following Brown's shooting death, in any case. I've read and heard statements from some in the community who didn't canonize Brown, but instead focused on what they consider the intimidation and over-the-top strong-arm tactics of the area cops in general (statements made before and after the three officers I posted about in this thread were dismissed). Those community protestors are advocating for peace and more fair law enforcement. Other protestors are more narrowly focused on the Michael Brown shooting itself -- they witnessed or heard witness accounts and believe that Brown was shot down like a dog in the street and want the officer who shot him to be held accountable. Others protestors seem to just want an excuse to riot, IMO. And, yet other residents are staying home and don't want a part of any of it.

Anyway, maybe the state and federal investigations will turn up some more reliable evidence as to what went down between Michael Brown and Officer Wilson on the street that day. But, it's quite possible that 'he said/he said' is all there is to go on (in which case it would be a difficult case for prosecutors to try, even if Wilson is indicted by the grand jury).

[username]

*waving hand wildly*

I KNOW THIS ONE!!! PICK ME, PICK ME!!!!

[Maggot]

OK Pickle.

[Cutz]

Are you drinking, Cutz?

I made no such implications or assumptions, preacher man.

See bolded text.

Not drinking, and not preaching. You can say your opinion is fair and unbiased, but your baseline for unbiased is... "Is this cop justified? Or was he like these three other cops that viewed Brown as vermin worth killing." That is biased baseline.

Maybe if you'd asked, "Is the officer that shot Brown like these three Cops: John Doe who rescued 8 children from a burning building, Jon Smith who stopped a rapist just before he raped a 12 year old, or Jim Johnson who brought down the most violent drug dealer that terrorized the entire city? Or was he like these 3 officers that said these terrible things about people in the community?" Maybe that would be unbiased.

The way you laid out the logical train of thought, it implied the officer that did the shooting was most likely not innocent. As evidenced by the 9 words you said possibly exonerating the cop compared to the 34 words you used to condemn him.

[HairOfTheDog]

Not drinking, and not preaching. You can say your opinion is fair and unbiased, but your baseline for unbiased is... "Is this cop justified? Or was he like these three other cops that viewed Brown as vermin worth killing." That is biased baseline.

Maybe if you'd asked, "Is the officer that shot Brown like these three Cops: John Doe who rescued 8 children from a burning building, Jon Smith who stopped a rapist just before he raped a 12 year old, or Jim Johnson who brought down the most violent drug dealer that terrorized the entire city? Or was he like these 3 officers that said these terrible things about people in the community?" Maybe that would be unbiased.

The way you laid out the logical train of thought, it implied the officer that did the shooting was most likely not innocent. As evidenced by the 9 words you said possibly exonerating the cop compared to the 34 words you used to condemn him.

The main topic of that post was news of another officer's removal from service, via resignation. So, yeah, that would account for the largest portion of words in the post.

That ³⁴⁄₉ bit doesn't convert my acknowledging the "maybes" (possibilities) on both sides into "assumptions and implications biased towards one side" as you essentially contended originally. It also doesn't transform what I expressed in my final statements into a logic train. But, thanks so much for counting anyway.

I'm very supportive of LE and believe that most cops are good ones doing a difficult job. That's my opinion which I've posted many times on this board. I don't support corrupt and dishonorable cops, however. And, I know that otherwise good cops can find themselves in a position where they make a fatal mistake in judgment or reaction; it happens. Denying the fact that all of these kinds of officers and situations exist would be ignorant and unrealistic.

I don't feel compelled to feign ignorance or prematurely dismiss one possibility and choose sides in order to suit somebody else's sensitivities. It's possible to me that Officer Wilson was a good cop and the shooting was justified. It's possible to me that he was a dishonorable cop with a mindset similar to the dismissed cops and the shooting was not justified. It's also possible to me that he was an otherwise good cop and the shooting wasn't justified. I don't know what went down, so the possibilities are all open in my mind. It doesn't bother me if you have your personal reasons to be closed to one or more of the possibilities. I'm not interested in attempting to change your mind, just speaking mine.

I've never mentioned anything about any of the dismissed cops saying, feeling, or thinking that "black children deserve to be shot in the street". Not one of the reported remarks made by the dismissed officers about killing what they consider to be undesirable community members included a single word about age or race. Likewise, there are no such reported remarks attributed to Officer Wilson AFAIK and I didn't think or post anything to that effect. You, Cutz, introduced "black children deserve to be shot in the street" into the equation upthread and then compared it to me being labeled a child rapist and murderer. I trust it all made sense in your mind and it doesn't much matter to me.

As for the examples that you suggested would have been better for me to use in my post -- they're not related to the case at hand. I prefer to use what's relevant, as I did. That's me. I have cause to believe that the people posting and reading here are sharp enough to realize that there are good cops who do good things all of the time -- in Ferguson and everywhere else -- without me having to interject specific examples of such and remind them of that fact.

I don't have any problem or hesitance in expressing opinions and biases, popular or not. If you continue to insist that you know better than I how I think and feel and that reporting updates and acknowledging the possibilities in this case -- without having formed an opinion -- amounts to a faulty biased logic train, I can live with that. I've done my best to spell out my position clearly, give you a little background, and address all of your suggestions and responses to me. That's as much as I'll do.

[Cutz]

It's possible to me that Officer Wilson was a good cop and the shooting was justified. It's possible to me that he was a dishonorable cop... I don't know what went down, so the possibilities are all open in my mind.

As for the examples that you suggested would have been better for me to use in my post -- they're not related to the case at hand. I prefer to use what's relevant, as I did.

Ok. I'll simplify my argument.

The examples you used are not relevant to the case at hand. Examples of three dismissed cops in the aftermath of a shooting have no bearing on the shooting itself. Saying, "It's possible the shooting was justified" or "It's possible the shooting wasn't justified" is perfectly reasonable. I'm not closed off to either possibility at all. The outrageous feelings of cops from other districts in a major metropolitan area, however, only serve to sensationalize one side. It's agenda based reporting from the start. It's the same (but opposite) as officers releasing the video of the strong-arm robbery that Brown committed... it has no bearing on the incident because the officer knew nothing about it.

I'm not going to put words in your mouth or tell you how you think. I don't blame you for regurgitating biased information. I do call on you to recognize when it is biased tho. If I'm a teacher... and another teacher from my school is arrested for having a relationship with a student... am I suddenly a pedophile as well? If I'm accused by a student of sexual harassment, does the other teacher's arrest imply that I too am guilty? It should have no bearing.

[HairOfTheDog]

Your argument couldn't have been simpler from the start, Cutz. It's just ineffective.

And, it's strange to me that you even wanna argue with a confident able-minded adult (me or anyone else) about how you know what they REALLY think; insisting that they're either wrong or dishonest about their thoughts and feelings if the truth contradicts an off-base broad-brushing assertion that you've espoused based on analysis of an internet forum comment.

I'm not gonna lie to appease you. Thus, I won't be able to answer your call on me to recognize the specific bias that you’ve diagnosed within me. But don't think I don't appreciate the seriousness of your calling. (That there is some hilariously arrogant shit.)

One thing you mentioned in your last post -- along side your righteous call for recognition and your challenging pedophile logic questions -- may have actually been helpful in understanding part of your apparent angst in this thread. From what you posted, I got the impression that that you view the “case at hand” here as limited directly to the shooting of Michael Brown; like a criminal or legal case that we should be approaching and discussing in terms of evidence pertaining to the shooting itself -- like attorneys, or jurors, or crime reporters…

I don't view the case at hand that narrowly myself. We’re not in a court of a law and this is not a Cell Block/ crime forum thread. The “case at hand”, for me, in this discussion thread has centered around what’s coming out of Ferguson and surrounding areas in the aftermath of a contested shooting. That includes the community claims of historical police brutality, the LE claims and statements about the shooting and the climate between police and residents, Mrs. Brown's claims about her son's demeanor, the liquor store video of Michael Brown, the protests/riots, the statements from community members, the perceptions about community members expressed here and elsewhere, etc... It's broad.

Some residents have claimed that the cops in the area have little regard for the residents they police and that they routinely practice police brutality. Some of those residents believe that could be a factor in explaining how an unarmed teen stopped for jaywalking ended up dead 35 feet from the officer’s vehicle with unrelated eyewitnesses claiming that his hands were in the air or that he was surrendering while the officer continued shooting. Others feel that Michael Brown's demeanor at the liquor store suggests that he may have been an aggressive individual who caused his own death. Whether or not those claims and beliefs have any bearing on ascertaining if the shooting of Michael Brown was justified is something that I don't know or have an opinion about. Unless you somehow have access to information that hasn’t been reported to the public, you don’t know one way or the other either. The motive for the shooting remains a question -- it's open for discussion here, there and everywhere -- despite the fact that posing questions about different possibilities somehow resembles deeming someone guilty in your mind.

I appreciate our media in the US and don’t get terribly frustrated by subtle or blatant agenda-based reporting. It’s a fact of life and it’s simple enough for me to read several reports of the story by different sources and weed out the direct statements and facts from the spin. I’ve been doing that for at least 15 years now and actually enjoy it -- that process contributes to the formation of my personal opinions and views. How you've managed to equate posting direct news accounts and sharing my personal views about them with “regurgitation” of bias is another convoluted Cutz claim that really doesn’t need to be explained -- sometimes it’s enough just knowing there are such intriguing unsolved mysteries in our midst.