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TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

(11-28-2014 04:01 PM)username Wrote:  As an aside, how about that 12 year old kid who was shot brandishing an airsoft gun? What fries my chops about THAT shooting is although the 911 caller told the dispatcher at least twice that it was "probably a fake gun", the dispatcher never even mentioned that to the officers she sent to the scene. What a monumental fuck up. I hope her ass is fired.

I've been following that one too. So sad.

Here's the video of Tamir Rice, 12, being shot within seconds of Cleveland police arriving at the park.





It reminds of the case of 13-year-old Andy Lopez who was shot dead in Sonoma County because he was walking while carrying an airsoft gun.

All the community protests, all the eyewitnesses, 2 officers on the scene, 7 bullets into Lopez -- and still Officer Erick Gelhaus was not charged.

Some of these toys looks so much like the real thing, especially without an orange safety tip. And, kids get taken off guard and don't respond appropriately. I understand why these unfortunate confrontations occur. I don't understand cops shooting over and over when there are two or more officers on the scene, the suspect is down, and the weapon could be picked up by one of them so the situation could be assessed before continuing to unload on a fallen body.





11-28-2014 04:27 PM
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Midwest Spy Away
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RE: Ferguson

While I don't believe the 12 year old 'deserved' to die, why is he walking along a sidewalk brandishing the weapon at civilians? WTF?

Talk about having a death wish.

And, yes, User is right, some of the details were left out from the 911 dispatch to police. However, 911 is supposed to get officers to the scene as quickly as possible.

And, what if the gun turns out to be real, but the officers have been told that 'maybe its a toy' and they hesitate and end up dead themselves?

Tough situation. Ultimately, the kid made the choice to walk around and flash a gun at people as they walked down the street.

Not smart.





11-28-2014 04:40 PM
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Duchess Away
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RE: Ferguson



Wasn't he told to drop the weapon or raise his hands in the air, something like that? I only heard about this in passing.






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11-28-2014 04:53 PM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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RE: Ferguson

(11-28-2014 04:01 PM)username Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 02:53 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 01:28 PM)username Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 11:55 AM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  You guys remember all the white folks that rioted when OJ was aquitted? Me neither.

That was an over sight. We missed a damn good opportunity there.

We need to keep an eye out for the next one and torch all the StarBucks.
Here's another one. This kid was shot and killed by a "non-white" cop after Brown was killed. Are white people too lazy to riot, loot and burn?
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=31772096

Apathetic or just less inclined to act lawlessly. I hadn't even heard about that story.

As an aside, how about that 12 year old kid who was shot brandishing an airsoft gun? What fries my chops about THAT shooting is although the 911 caller told the dispatcher at least twice that it was "probably a fake gun", the dispatcher never even mentioned that to the officers she sent to the scene. What a monumental fuck up. I hope her ass is fired.
It's protocol for 911 dispatchers to not give any opinions when dispatching officers for reasons MS pointed out. Only the facts.





11-28-2014 04:56 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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RE: Ferguson

(11-28-2014 04:56 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  It's protocol for 911 dispatchers to not give any opinions when dispatching officers for reasons MS pointed out. Only the facts.

What the heck are you talking about, Gunnar?

The fact is that the caller told the dispatcher there was a guy in the park waving around what was probably a toy gun, but might be a real gun. The caller was uncertain as to which.

What protocol prohibits the dispatcher from arming the responding officers with all of the pertinent information conveyed by the caller?





11-28-2014 05:01 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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RE: Ferguson

(11-28-2014 04:53 PM)Duchess Wrote:  Wasn't he told to drop the weapon or raise his hands in the air, something like that? I only heard about this in passing.

That's what the Deputy Chief said in a press conference.

[Image: n-TAMIR-RICE-large570.jpg]

Snip:
The officers drove onto the grass with their windows down, and gave three commands to “show your hands,” Deputy Chief Tomba said. He wouldn’t elaborate on additional dialogue between the officers and the boy because of an ongoing investigation into the incident.

The 911 call, a transcript of which was released Monday, detailed the observations of a man who was sitting outside of the recreation center and described seeing “a guy in here with a pistol.” He continued, saying the person kept pulling the gun in and out of his pants. “It’s probably fake. But you know what? It’s scaring the shit out of people,” the caller said.


ETA: The 911 call (the caller says it's probably a fake several times and that the black male is probably a juvenile).




Full story: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/cleveland-vid...tamir-rice

After the internal investigation, the case will go to a Grand Jury.





11-28-2014 05:26 PM
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Duchess Away
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RE: Ferguson



No one likes to see children shot down but if it's true that the cop told him to show his hands and the kid didn't comply then I feel he brought this on himself.






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11-28-2014 06:05 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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RE: Ferguson

(11-28-2014 06:05 PM)Duchess Wrote:   if it's true that the cop told him to show his hands and the kid didn't comply then I feel he brought this on himself.


I hear ya. But, it's not that cut and dry for me.

This is a good short video which includes the 911 dispatch call to responding officers, along with real time video of the shooting.





That rookie cop fired pretty effin' quickly on someone who was not reported to have fired a gun, had not pointed a gun at the officers, and was not in the vicinity of anyone else when the officers, with their doors open, pulled right up on him while reportedly telling him to put his hands up from inside the vehicle.

That's a lot going on in a very shot span of time. Had the officers known that Tamir was believed to be a juvenile who was in the park with what the 911 caller believed was probably a fake pistol, they might have taken more than 2 seconds to assess the situation before shooting to kill. The officers thought Tamir was about 20. He was 12.

We'll see where the investigation goes. This kid comes from a low income family and his parents have some domestic violence charges on their records; I sure hope that isn't used to try to smear the 12-year-old. That shit gets real old. Whether it turns out the 911 dispatcher and the officers followed policy and are cleared or not, this was a kid playing with a toy gun in the park. He didn't hurt anybody.





11-28-2014 07:41 PM
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username Offline
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RE: Ferguson

(11-28-2014 05:01 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  
(11-28-2014 04:56 PM)Blindgreed1 Wrote:  It's protocol for 911 dispatchers to not give any opinions when dispatching officers for reasons MS pointed out. Only the facts.

What the heck are you talking about, Gunnar?

The fact is that the caller told the dispatcher there was a guy in the park waving around what was probably a toy gun, but might be a real gun. The caller was uncertain as to which.

What protocol prohibits the dispatcher from arming the responding officers with all of the pertinent information conveyed by the caller?

@Gunnar...The facts were that the 911 caller said it was probably fake. I don't think the dispatcher inquired as to whether or not it had an orange tip. It didn't but are you saying that information wouldn't be relevant?

HotD is right. It might have slowed the severity of the cop's reaction just enough.






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11-28-2014 07:50 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

Reading up on the case. Some timeline background...

- Saturday, 22 Nov. 2014 at 3:30 p.m. -- Tamir Rice was shot at Cuddell Commons Park and Youth Center in Cleveland, Ohio.

- The officers who shot Tamir did not give him CPR after the shooting. It wasn't until an FBI agent who happened to be in the area showed up 4 minutes after the shooting that CPR was given.

- Tamir was shot twice in the Torso. He was rushed to the hospital and he died there several hours later.

- On Sunday, 23 Nov. 2014
, the family hired attorney Timothy Kucharski who will help the family launch its own investigation.

- On Monday, 24 Nov 2014
, Cleveland PD held a press conference. Also on Monday, hacktivists "Anonymous" took down the city of Cleveland's web site. The group posted a video saying, "Police of the United States you will learn in due time once anonymous has shut down your sites that we will not stand for your ignorant untrained rookie cops." The web site was restored on Wednesday.

- On Tuesday, 25 Nov. 2014, the family asked for the Cleveland PD to release all tapes to the public and asked for the community to remain calm and peaceful while the investigation is underway. PD agreed to family's request. Protests began.

- On Wednesday, 26 Nov. 2014, the officer who fired the shot was identified as 26-year old Timothy Loehmann, a rookie cop who started in March. Frank Garmback was the other responding officer -- he's been on the force for 7 years. Both were placed on administrative leave immediately after the shooting, pending investigation.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf...me.html#15





11-28-2014 10:34 PM
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

Too much deadly force going on and I would hate to be in the shoes of the LE; however, isn't there another way to protect themselves and take down the "perp" without killing them. I recently watched show on Animal Planet wherein, Vet had to shoot a tranquilizer dart into a caribou to treat a disease of some kind. Surely, a dart into the leg would be preferable to being dead. If they can aim a gun, then they can aim a harmless dart into arm or leg.. Toy companies need to quit making guns that look real. They need to be made in bright colors. BB guns, air rifles, etc can harm others so children (my grandson was 14 when he got air rifle for Christmas) should use these with supervision of adults. I don't condone the rookie who shot this boy, but where are the parents and why was boy alone at a park with a gun which looked real. IMO, he was too young to own this gun. Making toy guns in colors isn't so smart, I guess, because all the crooks would start painting their guns with bright colors, i.e., a hot pink here, a sea blue there, etc..





11-28-2014 11:00 PM
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username Offline
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

He was shot within a few seconds of the police cruiser pulling up (on top of the grass within a few feet of him I might add). They didn't even give him 10-15 feet to try and figure out what the hell was going on. Plus he was alone in the gazebo at that time. And I do find it telling that the dispatcher is more concerned about whether he's black or white and clearly reports THAT without also mentioning the witness who reported it states a couple of times that the gun "is probably fake".

That's fucked up.






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11-29-2014 12:30 AM
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Duchess Away
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE



I don't think they are receiving sufficient training and add to that I think they are fearful as well. That alone should keep them off the streets but it doesn't. It's said that when they fear for their safety they should shoot to kill and many do. There are other jurisdictions where cops shoot to wound in order to take control of the situation but they are few and far between.

It hardly seems like there was a nano second between the time LE showed up and shots were fired, that isn't even enough time to access the situation. I question their level of fear given they drove right up on him.






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11-29-2014 08:29 AM
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RE: TAMIR RICE, 12 -- KILLED BY CLEVELAND POLICE

(11-29-2014 08:29 AM)Duchess Wrote:  

I don't think they are receiving sufficient training and add to that I think they are fearful as well. That alone should keep them off the streets but it doesn't. It's said that when they fear for their safety they should shoot to kill and many do. There are other jurisdictions where cops shoot to wound in order to take control of the situation but they are few and far between.

It hardly seems like there was a nano second between the time LE showed up and shots were fired, that isn't even enough time to access the situation. I question their level of fear given they drove right up on him.

Aeons ago, it was the '"exception" rather then the rule for a perp to ever consider "hitting a cop", more or less then considering "shooting" a cop! Today, not so much! Yes, they are fearful, as cops are forced to be due to the brutality of many perps today.

Today, the mind-set of many perps (many of them black) will shoot a cop without a giving it a second thought! Knowing this fact, cops when approaching a perp, are cautious, as they should be, and many times they only have a split second to make life and death decisions. Cops do not have an easy job, always being under the "media's" watchful camera, for the "media" just waiting to pounce on any error they may make, and putting it out to the world, puts cops under undue pressure.
Cops being human, just want to go home after work, same as any other workers want.






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11-29-2014 09:49 AM
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