Johnny S. Clarke & Lisa Straub- young Ohio couple murdered

[shitstorm]

Allow me to draw a finer point on our perceived differences of opinion, SS:

I agree that what Texas did was highly improper....

I'm back and after a hot bath, AND a hot shower, I'm almost too relaxed to write a post that requires deep thought. I promised an answer, though, and I shall address this.

But, if a woman asks the state to provide her with the costs of hospitalization and delivery of her child and/or support by the state; if a man or woman asks the courts of the state to establish paternity and enforce rights to child support or custody or parental access and time-sharing …

are you saying that in those circumstances a state does not have the right to require that, in return for the individual invoking the powers of the state and its courts, the state may have on the books a law requiring the furnishing of DNA by the parties affected by its actions?

The state can and will do anything it can get away with, as the nature of power is to perpetuate itself, ALWAYS, and the founders warned about this. It is our job to keep things in check and we have failed, in most respects.

The question that you pose is a very important one because it goes right to the heart of the very foundations of this country. When an individual gives up personal responsibility and power to another authority, liberty is lost. Should it be? No. Is it in keeping with the Constitution and the sovereignty of the individual? No. In the situation that you have laid out the individual becomes subservient to the state. That's a socialist concept and philosophy and it has to be challenged if we are to save ourselves from tyranny.

Here's the rub: Most people are so ignorant that they wouldn't know Thomas Jefferson from a hole in the wall. They do not understand their rights, the assaults on those rights, the dangers in giving up personal liberty and, as a result, they would never question what's being traded for favors from the state. This reminds me of the Miranda issue where people have to be informed of what their rights are. Even then you can tell them and they have no idea of the philosophy and principals that established that they have those unalienable rights, endowed by the Creator. Even worse, after the ignorant, who CAN be educated, there's a significant percentage that are just flat out stupid. Many of those get state "benefits" (i.e., PRIVILEGES in exchange for rights). No class of American is immune to this ignorance, and that applies to state employees, lawyers, judges and politicians, as well. We're a dumbed down nation. It was just a small minority of dedicated people that pulled off the American revolution and led the masses to freedom. It's no different, now.

It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds.

~ Samuel Adams

Mr. Adams was talking about liberty.

Socialism - the taking from to give to another - is contrary to our Constitution. It's in full swing, though, and I completely oppose the idea that anyone who has been led down that primrose path, without understanding the pitfalls, should lose their birthright of personal liberty. I know that it happens but that doesn't mean that it can't be turned around. When FDR created the New Deal and the welfare state, followed by LBJ and the Great Society, people received state assistance without some of the intrusions we see now, so why should we should allow things to get worse? We need to turn this ship around, not continue down the Orwellian road we're on. Before DNA, people got welfare. Until the welfare is undone, I don't see why anyone should be treated like their state property.

What is more personal than the very blueprint of YOU? The implications of institutions taking and storing DNA are immense. When someone takes it, how can you trust what will be done with it? If we're talking about something beyond a criminal data base, what's the purpose? Will states give it to universities who will, in turn, get patents with pharmaceutical companies - with the owner of that DNA is unaware and not compensated for the "sale"? Will it go the to the Human Genome Project? If so, what for? How about the Department of Defense to make gene specific bio weapons? Perhaps big pharma will use it to create vaccines that are harmful to a certain segment of the population that another class might like to see reduced or culled. Maybe someone would like to sell your DNA to employers, like credit reports. It won't be long (if it hasn't already happened) before the dissident gene is isolated. What happens then - a little visit to the state headshrinkers for some "medication" (just like the USSR with better technology)? There are a million possibilities of how this could be (and is) abused. History, especially American history, should teach us to expect the absolute worse where government is concerned. Under no circumstances should anyone give up something so personal without being fully informed and aware of any potential consequences.


As for being a "collectivist" the whole point of people getting together and creating states and other forms of government is for the purpose of leveraging the power of the people, so as to protect people and obtain the strength found in numbers. IMHO that's why we have constitutions which define the powers of the state and reserve all other powers to the people.

The people have all the rights not granted to the state, and the state is to exercise the will of the people.

Absent granting some collective powers to a state created by the people, one has anarchy. You're not an anarchist, are you?

I didn't think so.




It's not Feds>States>People

It's People>States>Feds

Rights lie with the People and powers are delegated to the States and the Federal government. The will of any collective does not usurp the rights of the individual. Whenever that happens it's abuse of power. Let it go on long enough and it will take a violent revolution to reclaim what we've lost.

Am I an anarchist? Maybe. Define anarchist. Serioulsy, I don't know. There are many forms of anarchism. Just go to the Ron Paul Forums and ask! There's a bunch of them, there. I would be THRILLED to see our country return to the Constitution. If there is going to be government, it's the best model (besides something like the Iroquois Nations). I want to see the day when Americans, who don't do harm to their neighbors, can live in anonymity if they so choose. I don't want government up my ass or in my business. Anything less is not freedom.


Now, with that, I expect Lady Cop is gonna tase me for SERIOUS thread drift. In my defense I will say that there is NOTHING going on with this case so drift is inevitable (for me, lol).