07-25-2012, 11:09 PM
(07-25-2012, 09:25 PM)soothsayer Wrote: So it sounds like it's not exactly true that they could have asphyxiated Lisa to the point of passing out, then given her air, then rinsed and repeated until oops she died --- that can't be true because the coroner says they died from very tightly wrapped tape around their necks that cut off not only oxygen but bloodflow. They didn't tape her, untape her, tape her, untape her, tape her, untape her to find her dead and then RE-tape her. Coroner would have seen choke marks if manually strangled.
[Also --Not sure how her head got bloodied -- hitting the floor is a good possibility, or while the door was being kicked open but you'd think we'd have heard about blood on her bedroom door in that case. Why aren't they giving these details?]
So either Yingling made up a wrong story or the dude told him the story wrong -- prolly to make it sound like an accidental killing when it wasn't.
I thinks its too detailed and graphic not to be true. There's minor little things mentioned: the crinkling sound, the fact they made her pass out twice and the third time she died. We don't know what they used to tighten the bag...maybe their hands or even a belt?
The cause of death is still the same, the markings the tape would have made on the neck would still be from blood being pushed away from the skin.
My whole thing is why would Sam even say anything if it weren't true? Why not just do what everyone else does. "Hey man tell me what you think of this...so I've got this friend right..."
I don't think the snitch would have just made the entire thing up because there's only more liability for him.
Again, the nature of the details mentioned also don't seem too logical to have been made up...unless he's done this before himself.
I think if the account happened exactly as the snitch claims Sam said they did, Sam and Cam were in the garage smoking. No doubt they were on adrenaline rushes and probably burning hot from the whole situation. So they go out to get some fresh air and get away from the scene to think (don't want to look stupid scratching your head in front of someone you're trying to terrify).
Anyway, if someone else did kill Johnny while they were in the garage, there's no doubt in my mind that they would have heard it. There's no way Johnny wouldn't have been completely freaking out and enraged trying to break loose to get his hands on his attackers. Kind of too late to rely on kindness.
Plus he just watched them kill his girlfriend for nothing (if they were looking just for the safe). If I were him I'd be taunting the man to untie me and fight me like a man so I could kill him myself. I'd call him every name in the book to make him want to let me loose and take me on.
If it were Eric, I'm sure dropping the "n" bomb on him a couple times too many would have made him snap and decide to kill Johnny. After all whoever did it had all their weight on Johnny's head. That's not necessary unless you're furious...you just established minutes ago its pretty easy to kill someone with just the bag. Just a thought.
Anyway, in the mean time the defendants are smoking in the garage and they hear the struggle and think "what the fuck's going on?" So they open the door see what's happening and without even thinking drop the cig while walking back into the house. It probably freaked them out because they were trying to figure out what to do with Johnny. If this really was an accident they probably knew they HAD to kill him but perhaps wished there was something else they could do to keep him quiet.
I personally think we are getting too caught up in "who pulled the trigger" because every single person who was there lead to the victim's demise. Accidental or not, doesn't matter...Johnny was premeditated murder.
As far as Sam trying to make it sound like an accident, good point. Maybe just trying to make it seem "not so bad."
On the other hand, it sounds like something that would happen with overzealous people who aren't criminal masterminds.
One last thought...remember that the neighbors had their windows open. They didn't hear anything. However there was snow on the ground and snow is dense. Anything that is dense will absorb a massive amount of sound. Hence the reason why recording studio use studio foam, carpet, ceiling tiles, and a lot of insulation to absorb most sound they can. What it doesn't do a good job of absorbing is low frequency (bass). There's not going to be much of that here.
Just think about why people say they love it when it snows because its "peaceful". Its peaceful because its a "deafening quiet" sound. Sound doesn't travel as far. So I'm really not surprised they didn't hear anything. Remember, sheet rock walls with insulation behind a door, and more sound trapping in the garage.