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Syria
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Duchess Away
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Post: #449
RE: Syria



Someone/s have got to do the right thing. Take the fucking initiative and do something. People are being murdered. I wasn't alive when Hitler was committing his atrocities but surely this is comparable, right? Do something! Bomb the fuck out of his planes. I don't like sitting back and doing nothing. I feel like it's not an option.






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04-09-2018 03:29 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #450
RE: Syria

(04-09-2018 03:29 PM)Duchess Wrote:  Someone/s have got to do the right thing. Take the fucking initiative and do something. People are being murdered. I wasn't alive when Hitler was committing his atrocities but surely this is comparable, right? Do something! Bomb the fuck out of his planes. I don't like sitting back and doing nothing. I feel like it's not an option.

It's terrible and it's been going on for 8 years. I think virtually every decent person agrees something needs to be done. Exactly what more can/should be done is the problem.

In my opinion, it's more complicated than addressing the atrocities under Hitler. It was clear who was behind the Jewish genocide in Germany back then. When the allied forces acted, they knew the target.

In Syria, on the other hand, the country was swarmed with extremists from other countries infiltrating the Syrian rebellion after Assad unleashed his military on the rebels.

Taking Assad out might have opened the door for the extremists to take over and led to another power vacuum and terrorist breeding ground, like in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. Trying to differentiate the true rebels from the terrorist extremists was very difficult, especially since there was little to no western intel inside Syria.

Arming the rebels earlier on might have meant arming the terrorists who were overpowering the rebels. Some believe Assad was actually hiding behind and using the terrorist infiltrators as a figurative shield, allowing him to attack his own people while creating the image that he was fighting ISIS.

Obama tried to legally intervene with Congressional approval and allied backing after the first case of chemical warfare. But, Congress and the UK voted against it. So, the chemical weapons destruction agreement was reached and Putin stepped in promising to verify the agreed-to destruction of those weapons and aligning himself with Assad, as did Iran.

Now, in my opinion, Syria is pretty much a client state. Russia has heavy military presence and control and Iran has boots on the ground aiding the Assad regime.

The U.S. and its Middle Eastern and western allies continue to launch airstrikes which have helped quash ISIS and competing terrorist factions, but the civil war continues. Taking out Assad now would likely mean a multi-national war of great proportions. And, there is still no clear successor in the wings or any agreement as to what a successor government would look like.

No matter what Trump does, he'll be pissing off a whole lotta people. If the U.S. puts heavy boots on the ground, there will be a good deal of the population in the U.S. and western allies who will object to yet another intervention and attempt to force regime change, especially without solid proof that Assad is behind the chemical attacks. No one wants to see another Iraq invasion fiasco and Trump ran on a non-interventionist platform.

And, if Trump doesn't up the U.S. engagement and exert much more force, there will be a great number of people screaming that the (former or current?) leader of the free world is doing nothing in the face of genocide.

That's my view anyway. I don't know what more should be done, but I sure hope the U.S. and allied experts can agree on an effective strategy. It's very complicated and so fucking sad, with half of Syrian citizens displaced inside and outside of Syria and nearly 500,000 casualties.





04-09-2018 04:31 PM
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Duchess Away
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Post: #451
RE: Syria

(04-09-2018 04:31 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote:  That's my view anyway.


Your view is always educated and reasonable. Logically, I get it, but it is extremely difficult not to rail when I see what's going on. The suffering is horrible, unimaginable really. When I see awful things, I want the people to be helped.






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04-09-2018 04:59 PM
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Jimbone Offline
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Post: #452
RE: Syria

The drone videos of the destruction is heartbreaking. Many of them remind me of the Dresden pictures from WW2.





04-09-2018 06:02 PM
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Maggot Offline
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Post: #453
RE: Syria

But, but...........John Kerry said that 100% of the chemical stash was gone. I would like to see the evidence that Russia did not lie, yeah..........right along with Iran. Maybe Trump will get proof hopefully.






04-09-2018 09:08 PM
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Duchess Away
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Post: #454
RE: Syria



Is there a republican anywhere that doesn't play whataboutism? It must be fun, so I'll start playing too. With this administration I'll have a shit ton to work with.






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04-10-2018 04:52 AM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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Post: #455
RE: Syria

(04-10-2018 04:52 AM)Duchess Wrote:  

Is there a republican anywhere that doesn't play whataboutism? It must be fun, so I'll start playing too. With this administration I'll have a shit ton to work with.
I don't think that "whataboutism" is an exclusive republican trait. It's more of an exclusive trait to the current opposition of the presidency.





04-10-2018 09:35 AM
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Maggot Offline
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Post: #456
RE: Syria

That's OK Trump will fix Kerry's screw ups with Iran and Syria.






04-10-2018 10:21 AM
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Duchess Away
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Post: #457
RE: Syria

(04-10-2018 10:21 AM)Maggot Wrote:  That's OK Trump will fix Kerry's screw ups with Iran and Syria.


hah You will be disillusioned.






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04-10-2018 11:18 AM
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Jimbone Offline
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Post: #458
RE: Syria

(04-10-2018 04:52 AM)Duchess Wrote:  

Is there a republican anywhere that doesn't play whataboutism? It must be fun, so I'll start playing too. With this administration I'll have a shit ton to work with.

Actually it's a fun game that can be played on both sides of the aisle. You can do it at every change in administration!

Most recently, Bush blamed Clinton... then Obama blamed Bush... now Trump blames Obama. And the beat goes on and on and on and on...





04-10-2018 11:29 AM
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Duchess Away
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Post: #459
RE: Syria



No. You can do it. I learned as a little kid that there is no defense in saying someone else did it first.






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04-10-2018 11:30 AM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #460
RE: Syria

I wish President Trump would stop tweeting about Syria strategies and listen to his advisors. I'd rather the U.S. do nothing for the time being than escalate and get us in a war without a clear and solid strategy and mission. He's all over the map.

That's not a tactic, it's just irresponsible impulsiveness which causes off-guard government officials to issue statements in attempt to walk back the President's proclamations.

First, Trump said the U.S. would be disengaging in Syria, possibly in 6 months.

Then, days later, after the chemical attack on civilians in a suburb of Damascus, he said the U.S. would be making a decision about possible military retaliation against the Assad regime within 24 to 48 hours.

Next, he responded to Putin's threat to knock out U.S. missiles by telling Russia to get ready for nice, new, smart missiles launched by the U.S.

There have been more tweets from the President on the matter -- all examples of what Trump constantly criticized Obama and other Presidents for doing; telegraphing future military action and making direct or implied threats that may not be followed through upon.





04-12-2018 12:40 PM
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HairOfTheDog Offline
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Post: #461
RE: Syria

Trump and the U.S. military/security powers-that-be appear to be allying most closely with France and Macron instead of the U.K. because there is concern the British Parliament would again vote against military intervention without solid proof that the chemical weapons were unleashed by the hands of the Assad regime. That's what happened when Obama asked Congress and the U.K. to authorize force against the Assad regime back in 2013.

Trust in the U.S.'s claims about adversary regimes was seriously compromised after the U.S. government lied or misled our allies in regards to Saddam supporting al-Qaeda and stockpiling WMDs after 9 / 11.

Anyway, France's President Macron released a public statement claiming he has proof that it was Assad's military that released the chemical weapons in order to take back one of the last rebel-held areas in Syria (which Assad now claims is back under governmental control).

Meanwhile, Putin and Assad claim that the U.S. and its allies are lying about the chemical attack, it's 'fake news', and it's a 'hoax'. Sound familiar?





04-12-2018 01:08 PM
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Blindgreed1 Offline
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Post: #462
RE: Syria

(04-10-2018 11:29 AM)Jimbone Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 04:52 AM)Duchess Wrote:  

Is there a republican anywhere that doesn't play whataboutism? It must be fun, so I'll start playing too. With this administration I'll have a shit ton to work with.

Actually it's a fun game that can be played on both sides of the aisle. You can do it at every change in administration!

Most recently, Bush blamed Clinton... then Obama blamed Bush... now Trump blames Obama. And the beat goes on and on and on and on...
And it goes back as far as you care to look.





04-12-2018 01:33 PM
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