BEST JUSTICE SYSTEM. ENGLAND OR THE USA?

[kevvome]

I like the American justice system, there is no room for sentiment.
Here in England we have literally a hand full of lifers that will never get out, sentenced to life without parole. . I reckon the States has many thousands that will never be free to kill or rape again. But more importantly YOU GOT DEATH SENTENCES. I don't know for sure how many States still carry death sentences out, but i know there are a few. All we ever do is send them to prison and after ten or twelve years they are freed on parole. Totally fucking wrong. We have all the idiots you have got. Rapists/killers, terrorists, etc, but we are so soft with them. You guys don't take no shit and by the time these guys have learned their lessons it is time for them to die of old age in prison. Even our prisons are soft. The lifers have it cushy (= comfortable). Although i admit I fucking HATE that fuckpig JOE ARAPAIO (SP?). He should be doing hard time for fraud, theft, deception, misuse of power, etc. But other than him, i wish we had your toughness with lifers. I don't mean ordinary prisoners, shoplifters and so on. they aren't a danger to anyone. But lifers over here should do the amount of prison time your guys do

[Duchess]

Being sentenced to death here isn't always certain nor swift. Prisons are full of those on death row still breathing after years spent on appeals. Jodi Arias has been found guilty yet is still not sentenced because her jury couldn't agree on the death penalty so the wheels of justice grind on.

I don't have a clue what the justice system in the UK is like but that name you dropped is somehow familiar to me. I may have seen one of the Brits in here mention it.

[Duchess]

Sheriff Joe! *face palm*

Jesus Christ.

[kevvome]

Being sentenced to death here isn't always certain nor swift. Prisons are full of those on death row still breathing after years spent on appeals. Jodi Arias has been found guilty yet is still not sentenced because her jury couldn't agree on the death penalty so the wheels of justice grind on.

I don't have a clue what the justice system in the UK is like but that name you dropped is somehow familiar to me. I may have seen one of the Brits in here mention it.

Yeah i know all about the many years that your guys serve before they get fried/needled/etc, but they DIE in the end, Just as they look in the mirror one day and say to themselves ''You look good with your white hair and beard'' there is a message from the governor telling him he has a week to get his affairs in order. The law takes it's course eventually. But i gotta admit that your legal system is SLOOOOWWWWWW. About the only fault I can raise about everything though. And Joe Arapaio is one of YOUR guys Duchess. He's a sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona, and is a sadistic arrogant conceited fraudster that should have been assassinated years ago.

[Duchess]

And Joe Arapaio is one of YOUR guys Duchess.

Yeah. I posted again after I realized that. I had a senior moment.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Sheriff Joe is the cats ass, we need about 3000 more just like him

[Duchess]

Sheriff Joe is the cats ass, we need about 3000 more just like him

I think so too, I like his approach. I don't care that an outlaw has to wear pink boxers or dine on bread & water.

Kev, you're not the first person I've seen say something like that. What do you oppose about Sheriff Joe? Do you think he's too hard on criminals?

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't know which justice system is best.

The US has less cushy conditions in some cases, longer sentences AFAIK, the death penalty -- all of those things that you cited in the OP which I agree with for violent offenders, kevvome.

Yet, we also have extraordinarily long sentences in some cases for non-violent offenses, little consistency in laws and sentences between states (not all of them have the death penalty), slow moving wheels of justice in a lot of cases (expensive too), and our fair share of wrongful convictions for those sentenced to death. Also, the self-defense laws in some states make it too easy to kill without legal repercussions, in my view.

In California, Governor Jerry Brown has agreed to the release of over 2,000 lifers -- primarily due to another result of the problems that I highlighted in the paragraph above: overcrowding of prisons in the US. I believe other states are moving in the same direction. Life without parole is going to be used more sparingly in the future, IMO.

On the plus side, many states and the US Attorney General are also reducing sentences for some non-violent crimes including illegal marijuana possession, along with releasing early some convicts that have already served many years behind bars for such offenses.

For violent juvenile offenders, to the best of my knowledge, England and the US face similar challenges. What's appropriate sentencing, especially for minors who rape and kill? I'm seeing more minors who are too young to be tried as adults according to state laws and will therefore have to be released by the time they're only 25 years old, no matter how horrific the crime and how little remorse is shown.

Welcome to Mock.

[kevvome]

Sheriff Joe! *face palm*

Jesus Christ.

Yeah, that's him! Love him or hate him (I HATE HIM)

[kevvome]

Sheriff Joe is the cats ass, we need about 3000 more just like him

SURE YOU GOT 3,000 PRISON PLACES SIXFOOTER?

[kevvome]

Sheriff Joe is the cats ass, we need about 3000 more just like him

I think so too, I like his approach. I don't care that an outlaw has to wear pink boxers or dine on bread & water.

Kev, you're not the first person I've seen say something like that. What do you oppose about Sheriff Joe? Do you think he's too hard on criminals?

TOO HARD ON PETTY CRIMS SIXFOOTER. He only has one thing on his mind, a fucking power trip. He must have some pull because he should be doing twenty years for the many times he has robbed the prison purse. A no good lying thief. Fuck him....with a sawn-off shotgun.

[SIXFOOTERsez]

Fuckem, they are criminals, you steal, rape, rob, fuck you, go to jail. Its JAIL, not a country club, Oh yea, I am paying for it so I very much object to it being a nice place with good food and medical care and a library and a weight room, fuck that.
Pink boxers, thanksgiving dinner that costs me only $1, no AC, no Library, no internet...thats Jail.
Maybe, jut Maybe the first time you steal a car that someone went to work and earned and it costs you 5 years of hard labor, sweat and tears, Maybe you can learn something, Like don't fucking steal other peoples shit.
I would buy Sheriff Joe a drink anytime.

[Maggot]

Once anyone is in jail for a year they spend the rest of their time trying to get out. With a law book or not its easier to get out on appeal than break out like Jesse James.

[kevvome]

Fuckem, they are criminals, you steal, rape, rob, fuck you, go to jail. Its JAIL, not a country club, Oh yea, I am paying for it so I very much object to it being a nice place with good food and medical care and a library and a weight room, fuck that.
Pink boxers, thanksgiving dinner that costs me only $1, no AC, no Library, no internet...thats Jail.
Maybe, jut Maybe the first time you steal a car that someone went to work and earned and it costs you 5 years of hard labor, sweat and tears, Maybe you can learn something, Like don't fucking steal other peoples shit.
I would buy Sheriff Joe a drink anytime.

I's give the fucker a drink too, of arsenic. Most of the guys that are in his 'tent city' are small time crims, that is a fact. and more to the point is that ARAPAIO hasn't reduced the crime rate at all! His tough approach does not work. I too would be all for him if it did, but the sad fact is IT DOESN'T. If I was doing prison time I wouldn't give a fuck about wearing pink boxers or even ones with little flowers on. As for no internet, so what? it's no big deal. Prison is what you make of it, despite the conditions, That is proven by the guys that come back repeatedly. I don't like crims any more than you, but you gotta face up to one thing.....they are always gonna be here. Arapaio isn't.

[kevvome]

I don't know which justice system is best.

The US has less cushy conditions in some cases, longer sentences AFAIK, the death penalty -- all of those things that you cited in the OP which I agree with for violent offenders, kevvome.

Yet, we also have extraordinarily long sentences in some cases for non-violent offenses, little consistency in laws and sentences between states (not all of them have the death penalty), slow moving wheels of justice in a lot of cases (expensive too), and our fair share of wrongful convictions for those sentenced to death. Also, the self-defense laws in some states make it too easy to kill without legal repercussions, in my view.

In California, Governor Jerry Brown has agreed to the release of over 2,000 lifers -- primarily due to another result of the problems that I highlighted in the paragraph above: overcrowding of prisons in the US. I believe other states are moving in the same direction. Life without parole is going to be used more sparingly in the future, IMO.

On the plus side, many states and the US Attorney General are also reducing sentences for some non-violent crimes including illegal marijuana possession, along with releasing early some convicts that have already served many years behind bars for such offenses.

For violent juvenile offenders, to the best of my knowledge, England and the US face similar challenges. What's appropriate sentencing, especially for minors who rape and kill? I'm seeing more minors who are too young to be tried as adults according to state laws and will therefore have to be released by the time they're only 25 years old, no matter how horrific the crime and how little remorse is shown.

Welcome to Mock.

Thanks for the welcome my friend. So even the USA has turned to releasing prisoners early? YOU KNOW WHY? BECAUSE NO MATTER HOW MANY PRISONS YOU BUILD THERE WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH CELLS FOR EVERYONE. That is a fact. Criminality is a problem without a solution. And yeah, prisons have too many non violent harmless offenders, like people that enjoy a little ganja now and again. Or someone that hasn't paid their parking tickets. As for minors that are violent and potential killers. This is where the law needs to be changed. these fucking monsters should be locked away forever. Evil is evil. There are not enough places for prisoners in the states or England. We have been letting them out on early release for thirty years or so. Not all the time, but when overcrowding is bad we chuck the non violent ones out early.

[kevvome]

Once anyone is in jail for a year they spend the rest of their time trying to get out. With a law book or not its easier to get out on appeal than break out like Jesse James.

actually more people don't appeal than do. If you are doing a short sentence of a few months then don't appeal because by the time it is heard you will have been released two months. Some jailhouse lawyers are better than the pros. They have more time to study law and they know their stuff.

[username]

We have wayyyyyyy too many people locked up for non-violent, minor offenses. The sentencing is completely fucked up. Have them out there picking up garbage along the freeway every weekend or something. Paying for their incarceration is a waste of money.

I don't know why this has been bugging me lately, but it seems to me when we did away with forced insane asylums (beyond the 72 hour law or whatever), we may have gone too far. Didn't that congressman whose son attacked him and ended up killing himself or something say he couldn't find a bed for the nut a couple of days before that all occurred? I think we need fewer prisons and more nut houses.

[HairOfTheDog]

I don't know why this has been bugging me lately, but it seems to me when we did away with forced insane asylums (beyond the 72 hour law or whatever), we may have gone too far. Didn't that congressman whose son attacked him and ended up killing himself or something say he couldn't find a bed for the nut a couple of days before that all occurred? I think we need fewer prisons and more nut houses.

It bugs me, too.

There were some real abuses in regards to mental institutions back in the day; staff abusing patients, corrupt and/or lazy people having others who were inconvenient but not mentally ill committed, etc...

But, I agree with you that the pendulum has swung too far the other way in the US. It's very hard to get someone treated or committed legitimately for their own safety and the safety of others these days without the mentally/emotionally ill person's consent. But, the illness many times prevents someone from knowing they're ill, so... And, even when someone realizes they aren't thinking right and reaches out, the scale-back in such facilities too often means there's not a bed available, so back out into society they go.

As a result, I think there are quite a lot of people in jail/prison and living on the streets because the more appropriate option wasn't available when it was needed.

It was Senator Creigh Deeds from Virginia whose son attacked him and then killed himself. I watched Senator Deeds on 60 Minutes recently; he blames the system and shortage of beds for his son's death. The senator got LE to take his son to the emergency room because he had a breakdown and was dangerous, but the emergency room couldn't find a space for the kid at any psychiatric facilities. So, they released him.

[Cynical Ninja]

Its the same here.

Lots of people with mental health problems are locked up in police cells, they haven't done anything wrong there's just nowhere else to put them!

I've had that problem several times women or men (its mainly women but the number of men is on the increase) with mental health problems that need help but I know if I ring St Georges hospital or other mental health units in the area its going to be a case of “sorry no beds”.

The logic is at least if they are in a police cells they can't harm themselves its fucking ridiculous.

Both American and British justice systems are flawed for different reasons.

[Cynical Ninja]

Also I really don't think serious or violent offenders are going to give a rats ass if they have to wear pink undies or eat cheap food its really pathetic and so petty and pointless.

“When I went in the joint I was a gangbanger but after being made to wear pink undies for twenty years I'm just fabulous darling!”