POLITICAL BULLSHIT

[Duchess]

I didn't want to clutter Liquid's thread up with opinions that didn't pertain to his subject so, I'm starting this onefor miscellaneous political chatter.

I'm trying to learn all that I can about what is going on with our country right now, namely all this bailout bullshit whichis now being called a "rescue plan"...I feel that everywhere I turn in regards to getting information I am reading "spin", whether I look to the left, rightor anywhere in between...I place quite a high value on integrity, not only in myself but in those that I surround myself with, I feel that integrity goes hand in hand with personal responsibility and I don't see anyone in Washington taking responsibility for anything...I'm sick to freakin' death of all the finger pointing & blaming of others...Is the sky really falling ?...Or is that what they want me to think ?...I want someone to believe in...Is that too much to ask for ?

[Middle Finger]

There way too little respect for accountability and the tax payers in these recent efforts, basically. Also, little effort or talk about solving the real problem - all the big guys making gambles on derivatives of derivatives, overlapping bs on the same loan, all sorts of low-value, high gain gambles. The corporate/wall-street stranglehold on our politicians showed its head. So far I'm glad the bill didn't go through as it was.

[Sinister]

I feel that integrity goes hand in hand with personal responsibility and I don't see anyone in Washington taking responsibility for anything

Our government is supposed to be by the people for the people, right? Pffftt....my ASS. If we the people forced the government to be held responsible for their own actions, then we would have to be held responsible for our own, too. This is across the boards, nation wide, that people makes excuses, point fingers, and refuse to take responsibility for ANY-FUCKING-THING. Oh, you did something you shouldn't have done? It's not your fault! It's the fault of your mother, or your school system, or your job, or your spouse, or any other fucking thing that could possibly be blamed.

Until we demand that everyday citizens are held accountable for their own actions, how can we expect the government to do anything different?

[Liquid]

LOL - you can mess up my thread Duchess.
Here is the real problem for me. Most people, like me and most I know are working hard, paying their bills, and paying their mortgages. The idiots who purchased homes way beyond their means because they thought it was cool to do so, should not be bailed out in my opinion. Let them move back into a cheaper apartment and learn from their mistakes.
The market is currently way way over valued and if we did not bail out everyone it would drop and probably return to realistic levels. the housing market was way way over valued and now is correcting itself. yes this correction is at the expense of people who are losing their homes, but many many many of them should have never been in the homes they could not afford in the first place. Now is the blame completely on them - No. the mortgage companies offered interest only loans, alternative rate loads, and crazy "arms" that allowed people to live beyond their means for a little while until the rates went up and they were screwed. So there is blame all around. But in the end I am working my ass off 20+ hours a day to cover my bills for myself and my family. If they bail out the companies that are having problems it will have very little to no effect on my current situation, which I know is the same thing many millions feel also. they have no understanding of why the bailout is or in not needed because it just does not effect them in any way.
When they read that the government could potentially make more money back someday when the companies recover or when they sell off the parts of the companies at a profit - it again is above their heads because it does not effect them at all or in any way.
I drive a 10 year old car. it is in great shape and looks a lot better then a car that is a decade old. But I can not afford a new ride, which would put me beyond my current means. the problem is that MANY people do buy that new car and go further and further into debt each month. Should I care about them and their situation? I don't think so.

[LuMPyPussy]

I worked with a woman who had a 19 year old son that got his 17 year old girlfried pregnant, so he got a part time (first) job at Lowes and he qualified for a loan to buy a house for the three of them. Now, who could possibly see that ending well... and how the fuck did he qualify when he was only employed part time?

I'm pretty sure I would've realized my limits back when I was that age, but apparently many MANY people don't... and these assholes that set this loan/mortgage system up should be sent to Iraq as landmine finders.

But you know something? There are soooo many stupid people out there. I saw an article about a woman that was crying about how she couldn't afford her $2000 a month house payment when she only makes $900. Well, no shit!

[Middle Finger]

My understanding is that the bulk of the problem in the current financial crisis isn't the individual mortgage owing homeowner, it's the gigantic amount of bad debt instruments and derivatives these giant financial institutions are holding. For example, three institutions or subsidiaries having claims or leveraging the same debt obligation. Or derivatives of these things being sold multiple times over between them, at multiples way over their real value. Stuff like that. So I don't think the MAIN problem was people getting mortgages and defaulting, although that is a big part of it ... I believe the real problem was the lack of oversight of these off-shore subsidiaries, unregulated derivatives, and all sorts of unsavory leveraging going on by the institutions. At least, that's my current understanding based upon what I've read and have been listening to on the news these last two days.

[Liquid]

you are exactly correct MF. That is the problem, but it originated in all the little mortgages adding up and up. People went "buy crazy" for lack of a better word. And the giant financial institutions bet that the tide would NEVER end and are now left holding massive notes that are all going bad and defaulting - this takes down the financial companies, but it does not stop there - those same financial companies fund other businesses, but now they cant and those businesses go under. Now everyone is losing their jobs and not paying their bills. And now we have more defaults. The stock market crashes, which is all "mythical" wealth anyway, but that causes another and bigger panic and people start pulling all of their money out of banks and the market. Company's value on paper drop to nothing and now they cant get funding, further cutbacks, more jobs lost, and so on and so on and so on.

[Duchess]

Oh, to recall the good ol' days...The days when our biggest problem was a Prez that couldn't keep it in his pants.

[LuMPyPussy]

Hey, if I had been an aide or whatever Lewinski's 'job' was titled, I would've given Clinton a bj too... I think he's very attractive and charismatic.

[Duchess]

hahaha...Me too, Poopy.

[Middle Finger]

Not me!

[Cynical Ninja]

As usual taxpayers who live within their means are going to end up footing the bill for spendthrift fuckers who don't know the difference between gross and net. Some of the fucks I used to work with had large detached houses and more than one car, most of them earned the same as me, some of them less than me so there is no way they could afford these things without being in crippling debt.

It used to piss me off when we used to get takewayfood at work and some of them would constantly moan and whinge about not being able to afford it, maybe if you didn't live alone in a 4 bedroom detached house and insisted on driving around a 4 litre SUV you might me able to afford extra rice and wan tons you stupid pricks.

::angrier::

One ex colleague of mine thought he was David Beckham, he came to work one day wearinga Kenzo shirt that cost £250 ($500 !) he then complained for weeks afterwards that he had come up short on his rent and couldn't afford to pay his overdue phone bill. Tough shit dickhead.

I am glad my parents taught me the value of money and to only spend within my means.

[Middle Finger]

I have a brother-in-law that complained for years that he couldn't afford to buy his own house. He would spend lots of money each month drinking and partying, buying $50-$100 shirts and showing them off when he would come over.

[Duchess]

OP...I agree with your post...My parents taught me the same thing...Only an utter idiot lives beyond their means...What kind of moron spends their rent/bills/grocery money on a freakin' 500.00 shirt !...I don't have sympathy for people who find themselves in a financial bind after doing something like that.

[LuMPyPussy]

Slightly off topic, but someone subscribed me to a magazine called "Lucky" that's filled with scrawny 17 year old models in extremely overpriced clothes... one silk/cotton blend skirt was over $800. Now how in the hell can something cost that much? The material used to make it sure wasn't worth that much money (and it was fugly, besides) and unless it was hand sown by Queen Elizabeth, the labor wouldn't be that high. The magazine paired it with a small clutch (purse) that was over $1,000.

I make what I consider a decent salary, but those prices boggle my mind. Even if I had that kind of money to throw away on over-priced crap, I doubt I would. No, I KNOW I wouldn't.

[Cynical Ninja]

Whenever I hear the word "fashion" I always immediately think of the tale of the Emperors new clothes.

Anyone willing to pay hundreds of pounds for a shirt or a pair of shoes obviously doesn't live on the same planet as the rest of us.

[Duchess]

I waited all week to see the debate last night and in the moments before it began I fell asleep damnit !...I am interested in hearing the opinions of my Mock family...Was it upbeat & hopeful ?...Did Palin redeem herself after those 2 ridiculous interviews she gave ?...I will say this tho, if I hear myself & others like me referred to as Joe Sixpack again I will howl like a dog.

[Middle Finger]

She did a lot better than I thought she would. I thought it was a tie, basically. You can watch it on youtube. Here is part one - you will have to click around for parts 2 and 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbDUa0yMCjo

[Liquid]

I would say it was a tie, due to the fact that Palin held her own and did not screw up anymore. But that being said it is pretty sad that someone is looked at positively for NOT screwing up.

[LuMPyPussy]

Yeah, apparently it didn't matter that she didn't answer the questions presented to her.

But gosh darn, didn't she look swell!