Would you escape execution?

[Cracker]

From the ajc:

"Georgia is the only state in the country that requires a defendant raising a mental retardation claim to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, the highest burden-of-proof threshold. In June, in a 2-1 decision, the 11^th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta said this standard increases the risk a death-penalty defendant will erroneously be found not to be mentally retarded. This violates the Eighth Amendment's guarantee against cruel and unusual punishment, the ruling said."

From a related story, also ajc:

Warren Hill sits on Georgia's death row, even though a state court judge has found him mentally retarded, which the nation's highest court says bars him from execution.

Hill's problem is that he was found to be mentally retarded under the lowest legal threshold but not the toughest -- beyond a reasonable doubt. Even though Georgia became the first state in the country over 20 years ago to ban executions of mentally retarded people, it is now the only state that sets the highest barrier for defendants raising such claims to escape execution.


Among states with the death penalty, 22 require defendants raising mental retardation claims to prove it by the lowest threshold, a preponderance of the evidence. Four states have adopted a tougher test, the clear and convincing evidence standard. Three states have not set a burden of proof.

The 11^th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals did not issue an immediate ruling. About 10 Georgia death-row inmates who failed to prove mental retardation beyond a reasonable doubt could receive new hearings if the court finds Georgia's standard unconstitutional.

In 2002, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that mentally retarded individuals, because of their disabilities in reasoning, judgment and self control, do not act with the same level of moral culpability that characterizes the most serious adult criminal conduct.

State attorney Beth Burton refused to concede the possibility that mentally retarded inmates will be executed in Georgia. She told the court that when the U.S. Supreme Court banned the execution of the mentally retarded, it left it up to the states to decide how to evaluate retardation claims.

This prompted questions from judges who wondered whether it would be acceptable if Georgia made it all but impossible for a defendant to prevail in a mental retardation claim.

What about a law that says only defendants with IQs below 30 can be found to be mentally retarded, asked Judge Stanley Marcus. An IQ of about 70 is generally considered to be the upper limit for a diagnosis of mental retardation."

So, how stupid should you have to be to get a pass? An IQ of 70-50 is enough to read basic words, write your name, speak properly, and do basic math (cognitive age of about 12). Moderate retardation (adaptive IQ of 49-35) is more severe and you won't be able to live on your own and support yourself, but can function in society doing repetitive tasks (bagging groceries, even though you may eat a booger on occasion). Below that, you are pretty much fucked and will never have the intellectual ability much greater than a 2 or 3 year old.

If you are not at least moderately retarded, should you get a pass? Stupid people kill others all the time. A good 20%-40% of impoverished people function around 70 IQ. That's why they live the way they do. They, in turn, bear stupid children. BUT, they know not to kill. If you can't write a paragraph, should you be allowed to kill and not be executed?

[IMaDick]

Not a fucking chance, if I ever kill someone it will be because I thoughtfully decided to or I was placed into a circumstance where it was the only reasonable reaction.

[Cracker]

I was just thinking, if you are going to save inmates, at least save the smart ones.

[Cracker]

From a Swedish study:

"By age 30, 57 percent of mentally retarded men living in the community had been convicted of at least one crime, compared to 32 percent of the nonretarded men. This trend held for all types of offenses--violent crimes (such as rape and assault), thefts, frauds, vandalism, serious traffic violations (such as driving without a license), drug-related crimes, and other offenses (including tax evasion and sexual crimes other than rape)."

I'm looking for US crime rates for the mentally retarded. We may be too PC to track them. Or it may be hard to tell who is actually retarded in prison.

[IMaDick]

I was just thinking, if you are going to save inmates, at least save the smart ones.

If the legal system believes that the inmate is worth saving then why keep them incarcerated?

You know our system is generated by the premise of crime and punishment, I truely believe that college,medical,color TV, and laying around doing not a fucking thing on the backs of the tax payer does not constitute punishment.

If given careful and thoughtful consideration, our justice system punishes the law abiding for the crimes of the criminal by forcing us to take care of those convicted of violent crime. the finacial burden alone is staggering just at the judicial level, and compounded dramatically at the correctional level.

[Cracker]

From the ACLU (I know, I have to flush my eyes now):

"More than 2,000 people are on "death row" today. Virtually all are poor, a significant number are mentally retarded or otherwise mentally disabled, more than 40 percent are African American, and a disproportionate number are Native American, Latino, or Asian."

[Cracker]

I was just thinking, if you are going to save inmates, at least save the smart ones.

If the legal system believes that the inmate is worth saving then why keep them incarcerated?

You know our system is generated by the premise of crime and punishment, I truely believe that college,medical,color TV, and laying around doing not a fucking thing on the backs of the tax payer does not constitute punishment.

If given careful and thoughtful consideration, our justice system punishes the law abiding for the crimes of the criminal by forcing us to take care of those convicted of violent crime. the finacial burden alone is staggering just at the judicial level, and compounded dramatically at the correctional level.

I completely agree. Georgia has a special prison for illegals to sit while they wait to be deported. It costs over $100,000 a day but the state increased the number of kids per classroom this year. So my youngest has to be crammed in a classroom so we can pay for criminals. Lovely.

We spend most of our money on society's losers. It pisses me off. I quit my second job because they were taking most of the money in taxes to pay for people who don't even have one job. I decided I would rather spend family time at my house than pay for someone's Section 8 house.

[Cracker]

Holy shit!

"An estimated 6.2 to 7.5 million people in the United States are mentally retarded, according to the U.S. Census Bureau." That is more than the entire population of Arizona.

[IMaDick]

Ya, it's a large number of people, but they all live on the east coast or at the very least east of the mississippi.

[Cracker]

Ya, it's a large number of people, but they all live on the east coast or at the very least east of the mississippi.

The average IQ for the red line (hahaha) is only 15 points above mentally retarded, or in the "slow" range. That is fucking scary. At least half of that population are "slow" intellectually. Think about it. Then look at your personal tax burden, then look at the red line again. The truth hurts more than giving someone made-up grief.

[Cracker]

An IQ of 100 is about "normal" now. 120 is bright. Look how few of the red line fall in the "normal" category.

Bell Curves are disturbing.

[Lady Cop]

i remember that filthy shitbird baby-raper-murderer john couey sitting at his trial with crayons and a coloring book trying to appear retarded so florida wouldn't sentence him to death. they did. too bad he died peacefully in his cell. he needed to die screaming.

[thekid65]

IMO, IQ tests don't really show whether someone is capable of determining right from wrong. A 5 year old generally knows that you shouldnt intentionally try and hurt someone (assuming they've been raised correctly). But, if you were to give that 5 year old an adult based IQ test...what do you think it would show?

In cases like these, I would think it would be up to a psychologist to determine if a person could differentiate the difference between right and wrong.

[IMaDick]

IMO, IQ tests don't really show whether someone is capable of determining right from wrong. A 5 year old generally knows that you shouldnt intentionally try and hurt someone (assuming they've been raised correctly). But, if you were to give that 5 year old an adult based IQ test...what do you think it would show?

In cases like these, I would think it would be up to a psychologist to determine if a person could differentiate the difference between right and wrong.

The whole Idea behind IQ tests is that they relate directly to what would be the normal retained learning of the people taking it.

After reading your post,I suspect you would have significant problems with the adolescent test.

[thekid65]

IQ tests have nothing to do with emotional development, dumbass..nor do they determine whether a person can differentiate right/acceptable behavior from wrong.

[IMaDick]

IQ tests have nothing to do with emotional development, dumbass..nor do they determine whether a person can differentiate right/acceptable behavior from wrong.

MMPI enough said.

[Cracker]

IQ tests are designed to take age into account. They can administer an IQ test if you are school-aged and talking. IQ's usually don't deviate much in a lifetime (+-5 points). By the time you are in Kindergarten, your ability to think has already been formed by your early life experience. You will have the same IQ at 5 that you have at 50.

They made Head Start about forty years ago because they noticed blacks and impoverished kids are generally less intelligent than "normal" kids. Head Start is a type of daycare for 3 and 4 year olds that tried to even out the IQ gap between black/impoverished kids and white kids (15-17 points average). There has been no success for this program. I think it will be completely cut soon. If not, it is a huge waste of money and should be dropped. I would rather see the money go to old people.

Here's an example (from BlackPressUSA) of how effective this is:
"According to researches at Yale University, African-American children in pre-kindergarten are twice as likely to be expelled as Hispanic and White children and more than five times as likely to be expelled as Asian children. According to most, a lack of support in the classroom is to blame. (Nah, couldn't be that they are raised like fucking animals, it is the classroom to blame.)

“These three and four year olds are barely out of diapers. No one wants to think about children this young being kicked out of school, especially not their parents and teachers. All teachers in state-funded prekindergarten programs should have access to the support staff they need to effectively manage classroom behavior. When they do, expulsion rates are cut nearly in half,” said Walter Gilliam, author of the Yale University study “Prekindergartners Left Behind.”"

Fuckupedness starts young and can rarely be fixed. That people escape execution for killing another because their mom was a piece of shit infuriates me. Yes, they are raised like shit. That is why they kill. Why keep them around?

[Cracker]

IQ tests have nothing to do with emotional development, dumbass..nor do they determine whether a person can differentiate right/acceptable behavior from wrong.

MMPI enough said.

IQ test are purely for intelligence. (WISC-shorter version used in elementary school settings or Stanford Binet-full spectrum test ages 2 to 85)

The MMPI is for personality (are you normal or crazy), the military uses it to test for PTSD

Tests given in schools are achievement tests to balance age with academic gains so far (norm referenced tests place test takers on a rating scale compared to all other test takers, criterion referenced tests compare test takers to a pre-determined mastery level that is more like a pass/fail test)

Cracker had research in college. hahahaha

[Cracker]

I bet this is reversed if you graphed crime stats. IQ by race:



Oh, and what does this mean to "real" people who have to hire folks? Keep this in mind. How to train different IQ levels:



You are going to have to show the less intellgent people over and over. Don't count on them reading warning labels like DO NOT TOUCH or KEEP HANDS OUT OF SHREDDER or WASH HANDS BEFORE RETURNING TO WORK.

[Cracker]

In case fatty hasn't read ALL my stuff yet...