Posts: 29,189
Threads: 391
Joined: Aug 2011
(05-09-2012, 09:27 PM)Maggot Wrote:  That guy could be any number of people I know today that could be just etching out a life in what was thrown at them by the finger of fate. They live with a different look of life than most. Perhaps an even more true vision than anyone cares to admit. We are all just 3 steps from the same end actually. A sad story at any rate.
This is true.
The trial starts tomorrow; the jury is impaneled.
The defense is going to paint Kelly as a deranged drug addict and bring up past brushes with the law. I don't know any homeless and/or schizophrenics who don't have such a record - it goes with the tragic territory.
Autopsy/coroner report showed that Kelly had no alcohol or drugs in his system the night he was beaten to a pulp by an ex-LA cop (who'd been passed off to the Fullerton PD) and his partners (in crime, IMO).
The witness statements caught on video and audio real-time, and the tape of the beat-down, tell the whole story for me.
Kelly's non-resistance and slowness in responding was met with extreme brutality by a pack of animal cops.
I'm not objective on this one. I want these particular badge-carrying fuckers to pay for what they did. They need to be held accountable. 
![[Image: kelly-thomas-beating.jpg]](http://www.comfind.com/_images/kelly-thomas-beating.jpg)
Hoping for a just outcome, for Kelly and his parents (and the residents of Fullerton).
Trial story:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me...z2mFBaNmX5
Posts: 85,122
Threads: 2,913
Joined: Jun 2008
Aww jeez. That's so awful :(
Posts: 25,513
Threads: 227
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 29,189
Threads: 391
Joined: Aug 2011
THE ACCUSED
These are the former police officers facing second degree murder and manslaughter charges in the death of Kelly Thomas at the Fullerton bus depot on July 5 th 2011:
![[Image: Fullerton_Police_Officers-235x300.png]](http://jacksonandwilson.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Fullerton_Police_Officers-235x300.png)
Note: A third officer, Joseph Wolfe, faces involuntary manslaughter charges and will be tried separately.
WHAT WENT DOWN
Witnesses describe the incident right after it went down - their statements recorded by bus surveillance cam/audio:
Posts: 5,364
Threads: 46
Joined: Feb 2009
How the hell can a cop "involuntary " kill someone in front of a bunch of witnesses unless he was being attacked first?
I think our justice system sucks. Anything less than murder in this case will be NO justice served.
Posts: 29,189
Threads: 391
Joined: Aug 2011
(12-01-2013, 03:56 PM)FAHQTOO Wrote: How the hell can a cop "involuntary " kill someone in front of a bunch of witnesses unless he was being attacked first?
I think our justice system sucks. Anything less than murder in this case will be NO justice served.
I hear you. I too am outraged and still very sad about what happened to Kelly. It should not have happened and there are no excuses. Period. IMO.
The law is tricky shit. As a realist, I'm pleased that three of the cops involved are being tried. Were it not for the luck of prosecutors having recorded reactions and statements from witnesses watching it all go down real-time, I doubt these badge-carrying thugs would have told the truth and they probably would still be on the job - scary.
Cases like Kelly's are one of the reasons I support lapel cams for all cops - we can't count on witnesses and public surveillance cams to be present at all scenes. I think lapel cams will be a big deterrent for cops who aren't predisposed to brutality, but might otherwise just follow along when a nut job like "Officer" Ramos (who was probably beyond deterring, IMO) is leading the pack.
Anyway, let's hope Ramos goes down for second degree murder. The only difference between first degree murder and second degree murder in California is that second is not premeditated and it's not done in the commission of another crime. It's the right charge for Ramos, IMO. Ramos is facing 15 to life if convicted.
The other asshole cops should not have followed his lead and joined in, should have stopped him, and need to do time as well, IMO. But, I don't think that they killed Kelly on purpose. I think they contributed to his death due to negligence and failure to stand back and assess that they were exceeding reasonable force in carrying out their responsibilities as police officers. They were dipshit followers who should have known better. Since Kelly DID NOT provoke them, I think "involuntary manslaughter" is the right charge for them too.
Still, if they all faced second degree murder charges, I don't think that would be inappropriate, personally (but getting convictions could be much less likely).
Hoping like hell they are all found guilty as charged.
Posts: 29,189
Threads: 391
Joined: Aug 2011
Manslaughter Charges - defined
Manslaughter
The unjustifiable, inexcusable, and intentional killing of a human being without deliberation, premeditation, and malice. The unlawful killing of a human being without any deliberation, which may be involuntary, in the commission of a lawful act without due caution and circumspection.
Voluntary manslaughter consists of an intentional killing that is accompanied by additional circumstances that mitigate, but do not excuse, the killing. The most common type of voluntary manslaughter occurs when a defendant is provoked to commit the Homicide. It is sometimes described as a heat of passion killing. In most cases, the provocation must induce rage or anger in the defendant, although some cases have held that fright, terror, or desperation will suffice.
Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of another human being without intent. The absence of the intent element is the essential difference between voluntary and involuntary manslaughter. Also in most states, involuntary manslaughter does not result from a heat of passion but from an improper use of reasonable care or skill while in the commission of a lawful act or while in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony.
Posts: 15,939
Threads: 392
Joined: Jun 2008
I am so glad that the vast majority of UK cops don't carry guns because if they did cases like this one would happen all the time. Since some officers were given taser guns they have been massively overused, there are frequent reports that if anyone offers any rsistance young or old male or female cops are going straight for their tasers instead of using normal techniques to diffuse the situation.
We need to punish the French, ignore the Germans and forgive the Russians - Condoleezza Rice.
Posts: 29,189
Threads: 391
Joined: Aug 2011
The police officers were armed with guns, but no guns were used in the killing of Kelly Thomas, CN.
Kelly Thomas was tased multiple times, hit in the face with the taser gun 8 times, pinned down, kicked and punched - long after resisting and all the while bleeding profusely and screaming "sorry" and "I can't breathe" and "daddy". He was a shirtless homeless man being 'detained' by six police officers.
According to the coroner and prosecutors, the cause of death was "asphyxia caused by mechanical chest compression with blunt cranial-facial injuries sustained during physical altercation with law enforcement." The force of the officers on his chest made it impossible for him to breathe. This caused Thomas to become unconscious. He then slipped into a coma and died when taken off life support five days later.
Posts: 85,122
Threads: 2,913
Joined: Jun 2008
The more details I read, the worse it becomes. I hope those fuckers pay & when they do I hope they are petrified with fear being in the slammer. Life will be hell for them given they are LEO's. I hope they are scared every minute of everyday they are behind bars.
Posts: 15,939
Threads: 392
Joined: Jun 2008
(12-02-2013, 08:52 AM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: The police officers were armed with guns, but no guns were used in the killing of Kelly Thomas, CN.
Kelly Thomas was tased multiple times, hit in the face with the taser gun 8 times, pinned down, kicked and punched - long after resisting and all the while bleeding profusely and screaming "sorry" and "I can't breathe" and "daddy". He was a shirtless homeless man being 'detained' by six police officers.
According to the coroner and prosecutors, the cause of death was "asphyxia caused by mechanical chest compression with blunt cranial-facial injuries sustained during physical altercation with law enforcement." The force of the officers on his chest made it impossible for him to breathe. This caused Thomas to become unconscious. He then slipped into a coma and died when taken off life support five days later.
If anything, that sounds worse than being shot. A few people in the UK have been killed by police using tasers. They taser anyone here from schoolchild to pensioner.
We need to punish the French, ignore the Germans and forgive the Russians - Condoleezza Rice.
Posts: 85,122
Threads: 2,913
Joined: Jun 2008
I'm a little worried they will get away with this because they are LEO's.
Posts: 15,939
Threads: 392
Joined: Jun 2008
(12-02-2013, 12:09 PM)Duchess Wrote:
I'm a little worried they will get away with this because they are LEO's.
Rodney King would probably agree with you.
We need to punish the French, ignore the Germans and forgive the Russians - Condoleezza Rice.
Posts: 29,189
Threads: 391
Joined: Aug 2011
(12-02-2013, 12:11 PM)Cynical Ninja Wrote: (12-02-2013, 12:09 PM)Duchess Wrote:
I'm a little worried they will get away with this because they are LEO's.
Rodney King would probably agree with you.
It's certainly not a given that these cops will be convicted. Fullerton is a pretty conservative area.
Opening statements went as expected today.
The prosecution told the jury about all of Kelly's injuries, his cries for help, the fact that he was unarmed, the fact that he and Ramos had met many times before, the fact that Kelly in no way threatened or exuded violence towards the officers...
The defense is putting the victim on trial. The defense attorney brought up Kelly's past encounters with LE, the fact that Ramos had never gotten violent with Kelly in their past exchanges, and then said that the six officers were in a losing battle with a violent Kelly Thomas that night.
As idiotic as that last statement sounds, the defense attorney went on to top it. He actually contended that the cops hadn't used enough force against Kelly Thomas that night; that the cops hadn't used enough force against the homeless man who got himself killed due to all the bad decisions in his life.
![[Image: 38742-eight.jpg]](http://a.scpr.org/i/9a813c5307bb40bbd45810e1448e7bea/38742-eight.jpg)
Kelly's dad, Ron Thomas ^, is a former OC Sheriff's Deputy and has fought for two years to get the officers who killed his son brought to trial. He was in the courtroom for opening statements today.
Ref:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me...z2mNDVsVFJ
Posts: 25,513
Threads: 227
Joined: Dec 2008
Even if the guy was acting like a maniac all hopped up on PCP those injuries were not justified. I wish they all would spend the rest of their lives in prison getting ass raped.
Posts: 15,939
Threads: 392
Joined: Jun 2008
The defence tried to claim that the police officers didn't use enough force?! They killed him! How the hell can you use MORE force than ending someones life? Kill him twice?
We need to punish the French, ignore the Germans and forgive the Russians - Condoleezza Rice.
Posts: 85,122
Threads: 2,913
Joined: Jun 2008
It was heartbreaking to read that he called for his Dad while they were beating him to death. 
Posts: 15,939
Threads: 392
Joined: Jun 2008
My dad said when he was serving in the Falklands and Ulster and one of his young brothers in arms lay dying they would often call for their mother or father as they slipped away.
We need to punish the French, ignore the Germans and forgive the Russians - Condoleezza Rice.
Posts: 29,189
Threads: 391
Joined: Aug 2011
KEY EVIDENCE PRESENTED IN COURT: Warning: The video below depicts graphic violence
The jury saw the full video of the incident in court yesterday.
They had transcripts of audio to go along with the surveillance video - the sound was recorded by police mics and synced up to the tape.
Lots of tears reported in the court room as the video and audio were played.
At six-and-a-half minutes into the video, Ramos asks Thomas to sit down, which Thomas does. As the conversation between Ramos and Thomas continues (11:30 into the video), another homeless man shows up and has a brief conversation with Ramos. Officer Joe Wolfe and Ramos then look through the contents of Thomas' backpack. Ramos returns to Thomas, still sitting on the ground.
14:53: Ramos: "Put your feet out in front of you, I'm not f**king around anymore, man."
15:37: Ramos: "See my fists? They're going to f**k you up."
Thomas: "Start punching dude."
Thomas stands up and the altercation begins, and Ramos and Wolfe are seen pulling out their batons.
Thomas: "I'm sorry dude, I'm sorry."
Wolfe: "Put your hands behind your back."
Thomas: "I can't breathe dude."
18:30: Thomas: "I'm sorry dude, I'm sorry."
Thomas is tased and continues screaming.
Four Fullerton Police officers are now involved in the struggle with Thomas.
A few minutes later, two more officers assist the four now wrestling with Thomas.
Unidentified officer: "He's on something."
20:00: Kelly Thomas starts crying out "Dad, dad, dad …"
About 26 minutes after the video started, Thomas appears not to be moving and he is not heard.
Six minutes later, paramedics arrive, and Thomas is placed on a stretcher and taken to an ambulance.
Note: the officer heard saying that he used his taser to smash Kelly's face to hell will be tried separately after Ramos and Cicinelli.
Posts: 4,275
Threads: 39
Joined: Mar 2011
Hang the motherfuckers, they murdered the guy
|
![[Image: Zy3rKpW.png]](https://i.imgur.com/Zy3rKpW.png)
