Forgive me if this topic was already covered in another thread, I didn't see where it was. Also, feel free to move it to a more appropriate forum if you like, but I'd like to hear opinions on this.
Short version goes like this: Indiana Governor Mitch Wilson has
signed into law a statute
allowing homeowners to use deadly force against police officers they feel are acting unlawfully in entering. The link is a straightforward description without prejudice either way, but it's been a volatile issue lately, especially here in NY. I'll refrain from my opinion until others have weighed in.
we did have a conversation about this, since a member is from Indiana. but now i can't find it. 
you can imagine my attitude about the statute and the gov.
i'll try again to locate it, but essentially, the asshole may as well declare open season on the police in their lawful duties.
got a no-knock warrant? BLAM! 
(06-15-2012, 05:18 PM)Donovan Wrote: [ -> ]Forgive me if this topic was already covered in another thread, I didn't see where it was. Also, feel free to move it to a more appropriate forum if you like, but I'd like to hear opinions on this.
Short version goes like this: Indiana Governor Mitch Wilson has
signed into law a statute
allowing homeowners to use deadly force against police officers they feel are acting unlawfully in entering. The link is a straightforward description without prejudice either way, but it's been a volatile issue lately, especially here in NY. I'll refrain from my opinion until others have weighed in.
Yep...I actually liked him until this. Don't know what the thread was but it's been discussed...much to my embarrassment being from Indiana.
By the way...it Mitch Daniels, not Wilson. Not that it makes him any less of an ASShole.
Whoops, sorry, I was going from memory. The statute's been getting a lot of press up here lately because of local issues with law enforcement, there's a case where police shot and killed some guy's pitbull and the circumstances are being called into question, this statute was an offshoot of that whole debate.
Funny when you google the statute itself, you get an awful lot of tea party rightwing crap and militia noise, I'd have thought the representation would be a little more even but maybe I just wasn't seeing the right pages. Took me a while to find a link that wasn't completely biased and badly written.
I guess it's good news for the crazy, Waco types that think the government is out to get them.
I'm a tiny bit conflicted in that a person's home is their castle and of course, police aren't above the law but........I think LE are allowed to enter without a warrant in certain circumstances (imminent danger, etc.). What if they make an honest mistake and the guy inside blows their brains out?
I think it's messed up.
My question is, since when did a person's home NOT fall under jurisdiction of prevailing law? I can understand illegal entry and cops that abuse their station, but for the most part if a LE officer is going into a home he or she has a damn good reason. Can you imagine if a police chase is going on and the guy makes it to his own house, he can legally turn and shoot the pursuing officer because he's not yet technically been accused of a crime? What would happen if OJ ran inside after that Bronco chase and yelled out the window "Ollie Ollie oxen, in free!" like some game of freezetag?
Free people have had a right to resist unlawful entry into their homes for countless centuries. This is a basic individual right granted by the Magna Carta. But things are disintegrating because the schools have failed and now we have illiterates and those ignorant of basic things actually running the world. This happened because the Indiana legislature bollicked up some law and gave police the right to enter homes for no reason. Then it became a big Thing with everyone weighing in on the issue. Rather than put things back the way they were the laws were rewritten to restore this basic human right that has been in force for centuries.
If you think things are screwy now just stay tuned until the illiterates are calling all the shots. They get their knowledge from propoganda in the schools and from television so it should be a very interesting future as we spiral down the drain.
Indiana, under Mitch Daniels, is actually doing better than most places. Of course nanny FED is still making a mess everywhere.
(06-15-2012, 06:12 PM)Donovan Wrote: [ -> ]My question is, since when did a person's home NOT fall under jurisdiction of prevailing law?
797 years ago today.
(06-15-2012, 07:24 PM)cladking Wrote: [ -> ]But things are disintegrating because the schools have failed
I wish you'd quit saying that. PARENTS are in charge of their own child's education. If you can't read and can't tell if your child can read, maybe don't reproduce.
(06-15-2012, 07:32 PM)Cracker Wrote: [ -> ] (06-15-2012, 07:24 PM)cladking Wrote: [ -> ]But things are disintegrating because the schools have failed
I wish you'd quit saying that. PARENTS are in charge of their own child's education. If you can't read and can't tell if your child can read, maybe don't reproduce.
It just seems that we used to pay teachers and schools peanuts and they did the best job in the world turning out educated citizens. Now we pay them multiples of what other countries pay to educate children and they no longer do it. They don't demand that kids learn to read and write and there are no standards anywhere. Sure some parents have always done a relatively poor job but we still educated their children. Now we don't even educate the children of the good parents.
It seems everybody is losing sight of individual rights. These rights aren't granted by law or handed down by courts. They are granted by nature and trampled on by law. Rights depend from the fact we are human and not because we belong to a minority. In a sane world there's no such thing as civil rights. Corporations, sexes, races, and religious persuasions have no rights whatsoever, only individuals. We seenm to have lost sight of the basics in this country and education is much of the reason.
That's not true, clad. You can't blame the schools then preach individual rights in the same post. You have to work at becoming educated, it doesn't just get poured in your head while you are sitting there...
It used to be that some kids just failed and fell out of the system. Natural selection, poor parenting, whatever. Teachers weren't required not to leave a child behind. That's all changed and now the focus is sending everyone to college and simple vocational schools are few and far between.
It used to be okay if your kid worked the farm and didn't achieve some test score set by laws that screw your school when those kids fail.
Different times.
Honestly the kids that lose are those who do well but the resources are all spent on those that aren't.
thanks Hairy! 
(06-15-2012, 08:36 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: [ -> ]thanks Hairy!
You're welcome, LC. Never would have found it by the thread title but remembered it was one my first introductions to Tommy T (who seems to have disappeared...).
(06-15-2012, 08:46 PM)HairOfTheDog Wrote: [ -> ] (06-15-2012, 08:36 PM)Lady Cop Wrote: [ -> ]thanks Hairy!
You're welcome, LC. Never would have found it by the thread title but remembered it was one my first introductions to Tommy T (who seems to have disappeared...).
well i searched using the wrong name for the governor. but i tried Indiana statute also.
and i'll email Tommy and tell him all the women miss him...we'll see how long it takes. heh heh.
thanks HotD. I didn't really search I just scanned the forum to see if it was active anywhere else. I figured even if there was some old conversation about it there are enough new players here to make starting a new thread worthwhile...
Clad, sitting around bitching about education being the root of all our problems is no more effective or accurate than blaming bankers, lawyers, blacks or illegals. Our problem isn't that education is worse; in fact, statistics support exactly the opposite, that the average American gets a progressively higher education with every generation. Our problem is that at some point we left democracy behind in favor of capitalism. Responsible self-sufficiency and civic spirit was replaced with greed and grasping. It was enough once for a family to make an honest dollar, but we've been fed so many commercials and sales pitches about what we have to have to make us happy that now we strive to make ALL the dollars. That's an unsustainable system. As for our leaders: as long as we have designed a hiring process for our elected leaders that focuses on sound bites, popularity contests and pandering for votes, we're going to keep electing guys (or gals) who are only really good at pandering. You get what you ask for.
(06-15-2012, 09:09 PM)Donovan Wrote: [ -> ]thanks HotD. I didn't really search I just scanned the forum to see if it was active anywhere else. I figured even if there was some old conversation about it there are enough new players here to make starting a new thread worthwhile...
Agreed, worthy of more discussion. The original thread was started when the new (reversed) law had just been signed and the discussion didn't get too far, except for me getting suckered into researching the legislative history behind it by Sterling and Dick.
(06-15-2012, 09:09 PM)Donovan Wrote: [ -> ]Clad, sitting around bitching about education being the root of all our problems is no more effective or accurate than blaming bankers, lawyers, blacks or illegals. Our problem isn't that education is worse; in fact, statistics support exactly the opposite, that the average American gets a progressively higher education with every generation. Our problem is that at some point we left democracy behind in favor of capitalism. Responsible self-sufficiency and civic spirit was replaced with greed and grasping. It was enough once for a family to make an honest dollar, but we've been fed so many commercials and sales pitches about what we have to have to make us happy that now we strive to make ALL the dollars. That's an unsustainable system. As for our leaders: as long as we have designed a hiring process for our elected leaders that focuses on sound bites, popularity contests and pandering for votes, we're going to keep electing guys (or gals) who are only really good at pandering. You get what you ask for.
I agree mostly in fact and entirely in principle.
I do disagree with one thing though and that's that Americans are better educated now. It now takes 17 years of school to almost match what used to be learned in 12.
