Yes, I know he took office Jan '09. Those are the latest year figures I could find without knocking myself out. They are used as the starting point. I wish to fuck his ending point was 2010, but sadly, it isn't. We'll rehash this in two years if we can still afford Internet access.

(12-27-2010, 11:25 PM)Cracker Wrote: Yes, I know he took office Jan '09. Those are the latest year figures I could find without knocking myself out. They are used as the starting point. I wish to fuck his ending point was 2010, but sadly, it isn't. We'll rehash this in two years if we can still afford Internet access.

Details, details. Plus, we have to figure in the whole "bail out" and stimulus packages...Obama pretty much inherited that mess so to the extent it added to the deficit, I don't think he's responsible.

Good posts, thanks.

(12-28-2010, 12:18 AM)username Wrote: Details, details. Plus, we have to figure in the whole "bail out" and stimulus packages...Obama pretty much inherited that mess so to the extent it added to the deficit, I don't think he's responsible.

If you go back and read what economists said about the coming recession in 2008, you will see they all predicted the housing market crash and resulting crisis would all be over by 2010. That was in 2008 terms when Obama hadn't screwed the pooch yet. There is no hope of recovery in 2010. I don't hold out much hope for 2011, either. Not even excited about 2012.

Unemployment was at 5% two years ago. It is now settled at about 10%. Add that to the 20-30% of fucked up people who didn't work BEFORE the increase in unemployment and you start to get a better picture. Get techinical and add in the about 17% of people who are underemployed and working shit jobs and you can see how truly bad it is. The only jobs the stimulus package saved or created were mainly government jobs that cost the taxpayers more money and drive us deeper into debt. I don't understand how that helps. I do know unemployment has NOT DROPPED due to the stimulus. The government did an audit of $111 million in stimulus funding to see how many jobs were actually created: 54. Yep fifty-fucking-four. That's about $2 million per job.

I'm not going to go on about the Cash For Clunkers program. It still pisses me off. I do see that the repo market is in full swing. I guess people really couldn't afford a new car and an interest-only mortgage.

As far as bailouts, GM now sells more cars in China than it does in the US. That means GM now employs more Chinese workers than American workers. Please explain to me how that helped us. Sure, it helps GM, but I don't work for GM. And Detroit is still a shithole.

What did we decide to cut so we can bailout rich fucking companies, give people money to buy houses and cars they can't afford, and create a few hundred jobs? Obama funded mainly historically black colleges and cut funding to other public colleges. Because state funding is based on tax revenues and the housing market is completely fucked, colleges got a double screw from the feds and states. We fucked the education system. Now the bastard wants the DREAM act to pay for half of fucking Mexico to go to college here. Just fucking brilliant. Our people are losing everything they have worked for their entire lives, and Obama wants to send illegals to college.

He didn't inherit this mess. That is liberal bullshit.

(12-28-2010, 12:37 AM)Middle Finger Wrote: Good posts, thanks.

The funny part is I'm not very political. I just can't afford the luxury of closing my eyes to it now. I want you people who voted Obama in to vote him out. It will be hard for America to hold up for two more years. We can't possibly do six.

I thought of Cracker when I was tidying my closet last night. I came across things still with price tags on them, things I had forgotten I even had. *sigh* So much stuff I will never wear or even use. I don't think I can go to quite the same extent that Cracker is but, I can stop impulse buying & that's a start.

(12-28-2010, 02:36 AM)Cracker Wrote: He didn't inherit this mess. That is liberal bullshit.

I disagree. He inherited a mess and he's doing a fine job of making it worse.

Back to your comment about the Iraq war, if mass graves were the criteria for our going to war, we'd be (or would have been) involved in conflicts elsewhere (Rwanda, Somalia, Bosnia...). It begs the question why Iraq? Oil? Getting a foothold next to Iran? I don't think our government did it out of the goodness of their collective hearts.

Regardless, once we commited troops there, IMO, we need to win it. I don't support a hasty withdrawal.

(12-28-2010, 04:27 PM)username Wrote:

(12-28-2010, 02:36 AM)Cracker Wrote: He didn't inherit this mess. That is liberal bullshit.

I disagree. He inherited a mess and he's doing a fine job of making it worse.

Back to your comment about the Iraq war, if mass graves were the criteria for our going to war, we'd be (or would have been) involved in conflicts elsewhere (Rwanda, Somalia, Bosnia...). It begs the question why Iraq? Oil? Getting a foothold next to Iran? I don't think our government did it out of the goodness of their collective hearts.

Regardless, once we commited troops there, IMO, we need to win it. I don't support a hasty withdrawal.

You might think differently if it was your sons or daughters there!

(12-28-2010, 04:58 PM)Carsman Wrote: You might think differently if it was your sons or daughters there!

Listen asshole, just because I'm speculating that there might have been some ulterior motives for our going DOESN'T mean I don't support our troops 100%. They're serving our country (me and mine included). That doesn't mean I have to blindly believe that everything our government does is right (or entirely on the up and up).

If my son or daughter were there, I'd probably spend a whole lot more time scrutinizing and questionning the situation.

(12-28-2010, 05:08 PM)username Wrote:

(12-28-2010, 04:58 PM)Carsman Wrote: You might think differently if it was your sons or daughters there!

Listen asshole, just because I'm speculating that there might have been some ulterior motives for our going DOESN'T mean I don't support our troops 100%. They're serving our country (me and mine included). That doesn't mean I have to blindly believe that everything our government does is right (or entirely on the up and up).

If my son or daughter were there, I'd probably spend a whole lot more time scrutinizing and questionning the situation.

OK missey, now that I've got your attention, your last sentence reiterates my comment, yes?

(12-28-2010, 05:08 PM)username Wrote: Listen asshole, just because I'm speculating that there might have been some ulterior motives for our going DOESN'T mean I don't support our troops 100%.

That's exactly how I feel too & when people pretend to be obtuse over the meaning, it makes me want to slap 'em.

(12-28-2010, 04:27 PM)username Wrote:

(12-28-2010, 02:36 AM)Cracker Wrote: He didn't inherit this mess. That is liberal bullshit.

I disagree. He inherited a mess and he's doing a fine job of making it worse.

Back to your comment about the Iraq war, if mass graves were the criteria for our going to war, we'd be (or would have been) involved in conflicts elsewhere (Rwanda, Somalia, Bosnia...). It begs the question why Iraq? Oil? Getting a foothold next to Iran? I don't think our government did it out of the goodness of their collective hearts.

Regardless, once we committed troops there, IMO, we need to win it. I don't support a hasty withdrawal.

You think we don't have troops in all those places? We are all over the world.

The government and the troops are different entities. The government doesn't actually fight any wars. The troops, the boys and girls of this country, have reason enough to lay their lives on the line. We aren't privy to everything they know. We don't see what they see. We don't freeze our asses off or sweat out every drop of our moisture for the people of other nations who can't seem to help themselves. We don't leave our families and lives behind to fight in other men's wars. We just sit home and speculate.

I was an Army wife during OIF after the twin towers came down. I have played this war game for almost ten years now. I have to believe in what we are doing because it has irrevocably changed my life, and the lives of my family, in more ways than I care to discuss. I leave the business of foreign affairs to government officials. It really doesn't have that much to do with the actual actions on the ground.

I do know our president was still golfing in Hawaii as of yesterday. Apparently he isn't losing any sleep over it.

Cracker, I don't have immediate family in the military but to the extent I can without that experience, I think I understand your points (and largely agree). Yes, I'm sure we do have military all over the world but we aren't at war (at least overtly) in those other places. I too agree that government is a different entity than the military (until you get to the very top) but the Commander in Chief and the government largely decide where we're willing to fight.

Even if we were in Iraq for oil or to bring some stability to the region or to have a foothold next to Iran--that doesn't make it a wrong reason to be there or an unjust war. I trust that we wouldn't go in to something like that without a damn good reason--even if that reason might make some people squeamish.

It's all George Bush's fault.

(12-28-2010, 05:18 PM)Carsman Wrote: OK missey, now that I've got your attention, your last sentence reiterates my comment, yes?

No. I didn't say I'd look at it differently, I said I might look at it more closely. I understand what Cracker is saying about leaving the foreign affairs to others but if my kid was there putting his/her life on the line...I think I'd want to thoroughly understand the cause they were fighting for besides knowing that they're fighting for all of us.

Meh, who knows?

And don't even think about saying "who knows" reiterates your last statement.

(12-28-2010, 07:42 PM)Duchess Wrote:

It's all George Bush's fault.

Of course, I'm telling you we need to elect a different President, Bush is fucked up.

(12-28-2010, 07:42 PM)Duchess Wrote:

It's all George Bush's fault.

Exactly!

I blame EVERYTHING on him......because it amuses me so much to do so.

Wow! After Hillary Clinton Sarah Pallin is the most admired woman. heh.

W is well-endowed. Please find a pencil dick with ulterior motives on which to blame things. Thanks.