Good point.

(02-13-2011, 02:27 AM)Freshbait78 Wrote:

(02-13-2011, 02:20 AM)sharit Wrote:

(02-13-2011, 02:03 AM)Freshbait78 Wrote: I've been wondering why Tiffany & A.G. haven't put their profiles on private for a couple days now. They know that people are looking at their pages & they know that people suspect atleast Tiffanys involvement. I've come to the conclusion, although it would be smart of them to hide their profiles, they never will because they enjoy & thrive on the attention. I can hear them now "D3y jus hayt3n on us" "D3ys all juz j3aloz cuz d3y caint b3 lyk3 us" (Dear Lord I've been looking at too many of these profiles, I think I've mastered the language LOL) A.G. posted a song on his profile a couple of hours ago, a song called Rumors by one Mr "Woka Flocka" lol

"Rumors"

[Chorus:]
They wanna see me dead puttin prices on my head
Spreadin rumors round town like I fell down
They cant hold me down they cant stop my shine
They cant block my grind shawty its game time
Pyru for life breads off the elms nigga ian big on lick
Cause ian been to the mother land here I stand grown ass
Man gun in my hand ion fear no man FLOCKA!!!

[Verse 1]
These niggas fuckin trippin second guess am I livin
Better tell em I'm gone kill em twenty bags and tell em
Come get em make ya boy scared to say nun him
I thank that I scared him I swear to god
Dont fear them these niggas straight trippin
Thinkin that I'm slippin pull it out
Then I'm rippin my whole click
Itchin lookin for the fuckin victum
Free my partner isum tunnel fuckin vision
I swear to god on jesus christ I dnt fuckin hear em

[Chorus]

[Verse 2]
These niggas say they kilt me and kidnapped my daughter
Ion even got no daughter they mad cause imma baller
And they hoes a caller you know that imma stall her
Then dick her and ball her then never ever call her
Grind hard like my mother I'm the problem solver AR
Or revolver you hard then I am harder stop actin like a killer
You pussy ass nigga you aint wanna murder
Thats why I'm still alive nigga BRICKSQUAD!!!

sounds like his is taunting someone to me.

He posted this right around the same time that the female on the justice page was sharing the messages that he sent her. Instead of making their pages private to give people less to talk about, he instead chooses to post YES taunting video/songs. As for their pages maybe being locked... I don't know, not sure how that would work BUT they always have the option of not posting anything. For that matter, if they can post things they could also go & delete everything they've ever posted but they haven't.

It's as if they don't care who reads, or maybe they're just too ignorant to think about privacy ? I would think if a person was involved with this murder, or even knows what happened, they'd stay away from posting too much...stuff (Tiffany & her boyfriend) Although, I guess none of it's really incriminating. I'm going out on a limb & say neither one of them has anything to do, with what happened to John & Lisa. I might be wrong, but somehow I don't 'feel' it.

I came to that conclusion too after listening to the 911 calls
about six times. I hope I am not wrong because that means all my
instincts are haywire.

http://www.legacy.com/guestbook/toledobl...=148456077

I stumbled across the above, after reading, ONCE AGAIN, a friend of Tiffany's FB page. I don't know if it's of any interest. I read the first page of comments.

VERY INTERESTING ARTICLE FROM THE TOLEDO BLADE TODAY

it prominently mentions the murderers looking for a safe in the house, one that actually did not exist:
Here is a copy of the article:


Speculation swirls in Springfield Township slayings
Experts struggle to pinpoint a motive





Zoom | Photo Reprints

By JENNIFER FEEHAN
BLADE STAFF WRITER

The brutal slayings of Lisa Straub and Johnny Clarke in a quiet Springfield Township neighborhood have more than a few people on edge.

Richard Degener lives just a few blocks from where the young couple were suffocated with plastic bags, and he said he now keeps his home-security system on during the day, double-locks the doors when he's home, and keeps a loaded shotgun by his bed.

"It's just such a heinous crime," Mr. Degener said. "You begin to feel terrified inside the sanctity of your own home."

Despite such fears, those close to the case and others who investigate or study homicide say the Jan. 31 killings do not appear to be part of some random home invasion.

Most agree that Ms. Straub, 20, and Clarke, 21, were killed by someone — probably more than one assailant — who went specifically to that house looking for something they may or may not have found. Detectives have termed it "a robbery gone bad."

"There's a lot of work involved in this. That's not random. That's targeted," said Doyle Burke, a retired Dayton homicide detective who teaches criminal investigation. "The average burglar or robber is armed, but they're not walking around with duct tape and plastic bags."

Frank Stiles, chief investigator for the Lucas County Prosecutor's Office and a retired Toledo police detective, said that when he took a drive by the Straubs' Longacre Lane home, he was struck by its location. It is not set back in a secluded spot that might appeal to a random burglar, he said.

" … That tells me they went there intentionally," Mr. Stiles said, adding there's "a good possibility" the killers knew the victims. "It gets a little personal when you put a bag over their heads. They definitely wanted them dead, that's for sure."

Autopsies showed both Ms. Straub and Clarke died of asphyxiation. Their wrists had been bound with duct tape and plastic bags were taped around their necks. Clarke's ankles also had been bound.

‘It's very rare'
The way in which they died is unusual, to say the least. Although it is not uncommon for someone to commit suicide by placing a plastic bag over his or her head, a Toledo police historian who has examined homicides back to 1916 could not recall a single case in which the victim was suffocated with a plastic bag.

Firearms are most typically used to kill people, followed by knives. In the FBI's annual "Crime in the United States" report for 2009, 9,146 of the 13,636 homicides were committed with firearms, 1,825 with knives, and 611 with blunt objects. Just 77 were asphyxiations.

"It's very rare," said Jack Levin, an author and professor of sociology and criminology at Northeastern University in Boston. "The first thing I thought of was that this looks like more than a robbery. There are cases of homicide where the motives are mixed. What begins as a profit-motivated crime can easily turn into something that has more psychological roots."



In some cases, that might be the killer's need for power and control over the victims, possibly the desire to watch and feel pleasure in seeing them suffer, Mr. Levin said.

"In most cases you'd find kind of an up-close-and-personal method like strangling with the killer's own hands," Mr. Levin said. "This is a little bit more complicated, but it has the same purpose."

Mr. Levin said the case doesn't look like a typical robbery attempt. "There are cases where a robbery goes bad and the occupants of the house are murdered, but that's usually done with a stabbing or shooting …," he said. "The killing is a means to an end. It's a way of silencing witnesses. This looks like something vastly more sadistic."

Louis B. Schlesinger, professor of forensic psychology at John Jay college of criminal justice at the City University of New York, said tying someone up and placing a plastic bag over the head "is not a typical or efficient way to kill somebody, so the first thing that comes to my mind is some sort of revenge-type killing, wanting them to suffer."

Possible motive
Family members of the victims say they are convinced the killers knew their victims and had targeted them.

Jim Verbosky, an uncle of Ms. Straub, said he is certain the killers knew that his brother-in-law and sister-in-law, Jeff and Mary Beth Straub, were out of town. He believes the killers had gone to the house to steal a safe containing cash — a safe, he insists, that didn't exist.

"There is a kitchen with an island and an open eating area that went into an open family room. That was not ransacked, but you could tell there was a fight that ensued there," he said. "Plants were knocked over. Things were broken and knocked over, but upstairs, Mary Beth and Jeff's room was ransacked to the point where it looked like a TV show. All the drawers were out, and they had punched holes in the walk-in closet looking for a safe that never existed. There was no safe."

The Straubs, who were on a Caribbean cruise to celebrate their 25^th wedding anniversary, went through the house when they returned, and the only thing missing, Mr. Verbosky said, was $84 or so in cash that they'd left in a change jar in their bedroom. Electronics, jewelry, computers were not taken.

"Everything was intact," he said. "Two computers, a laptop, a brand-new flat-screen TV — everything. If someone is going to rob something and that was their motive, all of their electronics and all that stuff would've been gone."

‘This is evil'
Clarke's mother, Maytee Vazquez-Clarke, first called 911 about 1:20 a.m. Jan. 31 after learning from a friend of her son's that he had been on the phone with a young woman whom he and Ms. Straub were supposed to pick up that night. The woman named Tiffany said she was talking to Clarke when he dropped the phone and confronted someone.

While Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke can be heard in a recording of her calls to 911 saying that Tiffany said Clarke yelled, "Who are you? What do you want?" Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said last week that he actually never said, "Who are you?" "He said, ‘What the [expletive] are you doing, bro? What are you doing here? What do you want?" Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said. "Him and Lisa knew who these people were."

It was Clarke's father, John P. Clarke, who kicked in the front door of the Straubs' home about 3:50 that morning after Lucas County sheriff's deputies twice had come to the house and found nothing amiss after an exterior inspection. He found his son and Ms. Straub between the kitchen and dining area and quickly tore the bags off their heads, but it was too late to save them.

"This is evil. This is gruesome. This was premeditated. This was planned," Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said. She said she believes the motive "was the parents' safe and money, and they waited for the kids to be home alone."

‘Disorganized' killers
Glenn Owen, a former police officer and Army investigator from Texas who develops criminal profiles, said it appears a "disorganized" killer attacked Ms. Straub and Clarke. He cited the chaotic crime scene where the victims' bodies were left in plain sight, and the weapons — the plastic bags and duct tape — were left behind as well. He suggested the killers are young — 18 to 30 years old — and likely are high school dropouts from broken homes. They may live with an older relative, and if they work, they have nonskilled jobs at a fast-food restaurant or gas station.

Mr. Owen said that although disorganized killers rarely plan an attack, it appears some thought went into this and that they may have known the victims.

"What caught me strange about this case was the mode of death, how they killed them with the plastic bags," he said. "Usually the disorganized killer gets really [angry] and shoots someone or stabs them. To me, it appears they wanted the young couple to suffer, a slow type of suffering."

No arrests have been made in the case.

Seeking information
Last week, the Straub family established a reward fund at Fifth Third Bank where they are accepting donations to help identify and convict those responsible for the double homicide. Lucas County Sheriff James Telb also announced that his office was offering a $5,000 reward for information.

Mr. Degener, who lives a few blocks from the crime scene, said he didn't know the victims but was thinking of donating to the fund. Asked why, he said, "One, the horrible, heinous nature of this crime and the terrifying thought that this could happen to somebody who's close to you. The proximity of it to us and to those I know around here and love, and I just think these folks need to be taken off the street because they're obviously sociopaths and God knows what they could do to somebody else."

Anyone with information that may assist investigators is asked to call Crime Stoppers, 419-255-1111.

what is the coincidence that tiffany is talking to johnny at moment of crime. killers had to hear his phone ring. her wanting him to know she was going to store? her past. cant help feel she is involved some how. they say there are no coincidences. y did she not just call lisa right back. sucks to be tiffiany.

(02-13-2011, 02:01 AM)Jane Wrote:

(02-13-2011, 01:47 AM)RJs-Ex Wrote: [quote='Freshbait78' pid='127320' dateline='1297575348']

She honestly comes across as a thug, to me, the more she rambles on. I'm finding it harder & harder to feel any sympathy for her

Look at her record. She is a thug. However, in her defense, she is still in shock. She is also still in the angry stage of grief. Also, there is a person on that page that is egging her on. I believe that person is a very angry person and they are using this as an outlet. Maytee is feeding off of it.

I believe that the worst thing that can happen to someone is to lose their child. Have you ever watched someone go through the experience up close and personal? I have. My cousin lost her child at the age of nine. It was natural causes. Then I got to watch my parents struggle over the loss of my 15 year old brother. That was worse. He killed himself. I can't even imagine how much worse it would be to have your child murdered.

(02-13-2011, 03:05 AM)penalt Wrote: VERY INTERESTING ARTICLE FROM THE TOLEDO BLADE TODAY

it prominently mentions the murderers looking for a safe in the house, one that actually did not exist:
Here is a copy of the article:


Speculation swirls in Springfield Township slayings
Experts struggle to pinpoint a motive





Zoom | Photo Reprints

By JENNIFER FEEHAN
BLADE STAFF WRITER

The brutal slayings of Lisa Straub and Johnny Clarke in a quiet Springfield Township neighborhood have more than a few people on edge.

Richard Degener lives just a few blocks from where the young couple were suffocated with plastic bags, and he said he now keeps his home-security system on during the day, double-locks the doors when he's home, and keeps a loaded shotgun by his bed.

"It's just such a heinous crime," Mr. Degener said. "You begin to feel terrified inside the sanctity of your own home."

Despite such fears, those close to the case and others who investigate or study homicide say the Jan. 31 killings do not appear to be part of some random home invasion.

Most agree that Ms. Straub, 20, and Clarke, 21, were killed by someone — probably more than one assailant — who went specifically to that house looking for something they may or may not have found. Detectives have termed it "a robbery gone bad."

"There's a lot of work involved in this. That's not random. That's targeted," said Doyle Burke, a retired Dayton homicide detective who teaches criminal investigation. "The average burglar or robber is armed, but they're not walking around with duct tape and plastic bags."

Frank Stiles, chief investigator for the Lucas County Prosecutor's Office and a retired Toledo police detective, said that when he took a drive by the Straubs' Longacre Lane home, he was struck by its location. It is not set back in a secluded spot that might appeal to a random burglar, he said.

" … That tells me they went there intentionally," Mr. Stiles said, adding there's "a good possibility" the killers knew the victims. "It gets a little personal when you put a bag over their heads. They definitely wanted them dead, that's for sure."

Autopsies showed both Ms. Straub and Clarke died of asphyxiation. Their wrists had been bound with duct tape and plastic bags were taped around their necks. Clarke's ankles also had been bound.

‘It's very rare'
The way in which they died is unusual, to say the least. Although it is not uncommon for someone to commit suicide by placing a plastic bag over his or her head, a Toledo police historian who has examined homicides back to 1916 could not recall a single case in which the victim was suffocated with a plastic bag.

Firearms are most typically used to kill people, followed by knives. In the FBI's annual "Crime in the United States" report for 2009, 9,146 of the 13,636 homicides were committed with firearms, 1,825 with knives, and 611 with blunt objects. Just 77 were asphyxiations.

"It's very rare," said Jack Levin, an author and professor of sociology and criminology at Northeastern University in Boston. "The first thing I thought of was that this looks like more than a robbery. There are cases of homicide where the motives are mixed. What begins as a profit-motivated crime can easily turn into something that has more psychological roots."



In some cases, that might be the killer's need for power and control over the victims, possibly the desire to watch and feel pleasure in seeing them suffer, Mr. Levin said.

"In most cases you'd find kind of an up-close-and-personal method like strangling with the killer's own hands," Mr. Levin said. "This is a little bit more complicated, but it has the same purpose."

Mr. Levin said the case doesn't look like a typical robbery attempt. "There are cases where a robbery goes bad and the occupants of the house are murdered, but that's usually done with a stabbing or shooting …," he said. "The killing is a means to an end. It's a way of silencing witnesses. This looks like something vastly more sadistic."

Louis B. Schlesinger, professor of forensic psychology at John Jay college of criminal justice at the City University of New York, said tying someone up and placing a plastic bag over the head "is not a typical or efficient way to kill somebody, so the first thing that comes to my mind is some sort of revenge-type killing, wanting them to suffer."

Possible motive
Family members of the victims say they are convinced the killers knew their victims and had targeted them.

Jim Verbosky, an uncle of Ms. Straub, said he is certain the killers knew that his brother-in-law and sister-in-law, Jeff and Mary Beth Straub, were out of town. He believes the killers had gone to the house to steal a safe containing cash — a safe, he insists, that didn't exist.

"There is a kitchen with an island and an open eating area that went into an open family room. That was not ransacked, but you could tell there was a fight that ensued there," he said. "Plants were knocked over. Things were broken and knocked over, but upstairs, Mary Beth and Jeff's room was ransacked to the point where it looked like a TV show. All the drawers were out, and they had punched holes in the walk-in closet looking for a safe that never existed. There was no safe."

The Straubs, who were on a Caribbean cruise to celebrate their 25^th wedding anniversary, went through the house when they returned, and the only thing missing, Mr. Verbosky said, was $84 or so in cash that they'd left in a change jar in their bedroom. Electronics, jewelry, computers were not taken.

"Everything was intact," he said. "Two computers, a laptop, a brand-new flat-screen TV — everything. If someone is going to rob something and that was their motive, all of their electronics and all that stuff would've been gone."

‘This is evil'
Clarke's mother, Maytee Vazquez-Clarke, first called 911 about 1:20 a.m. Jan. 31 after learning from a friend of her son's that he had been on the phone with a young woman whom he and Ms. Straub were supposed to pick up that night. The woman named Tiffany said she was talking to Clarke when he dropped the phone and confronted someone.

While Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke can be heard in a recording of her calls to 911 saying that Tiffany said Clarke yelled, "Who are you? What do you want?" Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said last week that he actually never said, "Who are you?" "He said, ‘What the [expletive] are you doing, bro? What are you doing here? What do you want?" Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said. "Him and Lisa knew who these people were."

It was Clarke's father, John P. Clarke, who kicked in the front door of the Straubs' home about 3:50 that morning after Lucas County sheriff's deputies twice had come to the house and found nothing amiss after an exterior inspection. He found his son and Ms. Straub between the kitchen and dining area and quickly tore the bags off their heads, but it was too late to save them.

"This is evil. This is gruesome. This was premeditated. This was planned," Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said. She said she believes the motive "was the parents' safe and money, and they waited for the kids to be home alone."

‘Disorganized' killers
Glenn Owen, a former police officer and Army investigator from Texas who develops criminal profiles, said it appears a "disorganized" killer attacked Ms. Straub and Clarke. He cited the chaotic crime scene where the victims' bodies were left in plain sight, and the weapons — the plastic bags and duct tape — were left behind as well. He suggested the killers are young — 18 to 30 years old — and likely are high school dropouts from broken homes. They may live with an older relative, and if they work, they have nonskilled jobs at a fast-food restaurant or gas station.

Mr. Owen said that although disorganized killers rarely plan an attack, it appears some thought went into this and that they may have known the victims.

"What caught me strange about this case was the mode of death, how they killed them with the plastic bags," he said. "Usually the disorganized killer gets really [angry] and shoots someone or stabs them. To me, it appears they wanted the young couple to suffer, a slow type of suffering."

No arrests have been made in the case.

Seeking information
Last week, the Straub family established a reward fund at Fifth Third Bank where they are accepting donations to help identify and convict those responsible for the double homicide. Lucas County Sheriff James Telb also announced that his office was offering a $5,000 reward for information.

Mr. Degener, who lives a few blocks from the crime scene, said he didn't know the victims but was thinking of donating to the fund. Asked why, he said, "One, the horrible, heinous nature of this crime and the terrifying thought that this could happen to somebody who's close to you. The proximity of it to us and to those I know around here and love, and I just think these folks need to be taken off the street because they're obviously sociopaths and God knows what they could do to somebody else."

Anyone with information that may assist investigators is asked to call Crime Stoppers, 419-255-1111.

interesting!

thanks for the news article, Panalt - http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20110.../110219816

wonder what made the family think the killers were looking for a "safe" ? We heard, early on, here on this site, a person claimed there was a safe in the house. (or rumors of a safe) I'm guessing LE has talked to friends & such, that mentioned they heard of a safe at Lisa's house. I wonder if John or Lisa may have bragged about a safe being there, when there really wasn't ??

(02-13-2011, 03:07 AM)Mommabear Wrote:

(02-13-2011, 02:01 AM)Jane Wrote:

(02-13-2011, 01:47 AM)RJs-Ex Wrote: [quote='Freshbait78' pid='127320' dateline='1297575348']

She honestly comes across as a thug, to me, the more she rambles on. I'm finding it harder & harder to feel any sympathy for her

Look at her record. She is a thug. However, in her defense, she is still in shock. She is also still in the angry stage of grief. Also, there is a person on that page that is egging her on. I believe that person is a very angry person and they are using this as an outlet. Maytee is feeding off of it.

I believe that the worst thing that can happen to someone is to lose their child. Have you ever watched someone go through the experience up close and personal? I have. My cousin lost her child at the age of nine. It was natural causes. Then I got to watch my parents struggle over the loss of my 15 year old brother. That was worse. He killed himself. I can't even imagine how much worse it would be to have your child murdered.

yes, I've watched someone go through it, up close & personal.

WOW. That is the most amazing article. Complete profiling like on a crime
show and it appears many people have been consulted.

(02-13-2011, 03:55 AM)TotallyCurious Wrote: WOW. That is the most amazing article. Complete profiling like on a crime
show and it appears many people have been consulted.

I agree! One of the only news articles I've read, that actually has some real info.

AG just posted this, 3 minutes ago, on Facebook

so does anyone want to admit to calling crimestopper on me? all of u fuck niggaz n bitches need to get it together foreal..sell ur soul for some short shit... sell ur soul perioddd....very sad but we do live in a city full of snitches, informants, u know shit like that...... whatever u call a person that can commit a crime but not do the time that comes wit it.......

and i jus wanna say i was not tryna disrespect ANYBODY in anyway...jus stating the facts..CRIMESTOPPER is for people that actually know something about a case, not a hotline for thirsty people lookin for reward money...

above, AG - 2 minutes ago

I think Pink is going to be able to "remind" me, come Monday, how wrong I was. I really thought this case would be cracked by now. Or at least a 'person of interest' named.

good night, 'my niggaz' .. I need some sleep

Lucas County itself is rife with nepotism, favoritism, and the good ol boys club. It is a very, very tight legal and political community. Our County Prosecutor, Julia Bates, is actually the wife of a sitting Common Pleas Judge! And they are not the only husband/wife conflict of interest!

It is hard for me to remember when the last time the Lucas County Sheriffs Dept even investigated a murder, much less a double murder, and the Lead Investigator..Cathy Stooksbury...I have SERIOUS doubt that she could find her way out of a goddamn paper bag. Oh wait, I do remember one murder the sheriffs department investigated, and Cathy Stooksbury was the detective investigating...it was where an inmate of the jail was alledgedly killed by Lucas County deputies and the Sheriff (James Telb) was accused of covering it up!

Detective Stooksbury and her partner interviewed the whistleblower in the situation (an ex employee that spilled the beans after she was fired and witnessed the attack) and Stooksbury deduced that there was no foul play involved and that the inmate did not die from a beating as the whistleblower suggested.
An autopsy by Deputy Lucas County Coroner Dr. Cynthia Beisser found no evidence of trauma, foul play, or abuse.


BUT, once the Justice Department is called in, they find that the inmate died from the beating AND strangulation!! Hmmmm...wonder how Stooksbury missed that? Wonder how the goddamn coroner missed that??

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/se...google.com

There was also a case that Stooksbury was the detective regarding a child rape and doggedly went after an innocent man, who went to PRISON. Thankfully, tho it took some time, his conviction was overturned and he was set free...(I'm trying to find a link for that, but I can't remember the guys name!)
IMO, she has very little experience, IMO she covered up the murder in the jail, IMO she was so focused on ONE man in the child rape case that she failed to successfully catch the REAL perp....and I find it telling(reading the lengthy Blade article just posted) that not one "expert" the Blade talked to AGREED with her assessment that it was a robbery gone bad. Those experts stated they went there to kill them, it was PERSONAL, they wanted to see them suffer, etc. and Stooksbury was not even asked her opinion regarding the case for this article.

IMO, there is absolutely no reason for Stooksbury to not have had at least ONE presser. Even one, to assure the public that LE doesn't feel there is a band of murderous home invaders roaming around town and for the public to hide your kids..hide your wife...I mean, c'mon...what's the purpose of NOT having a presser like that?

As I said, totally my opinion regarding the detective, and I am really hoping she doesn't f*** this up.

And BTW...people have posted messages left on boards regarding lisa being beat up by the ex, coming into work beat up.....IF that happened, WTH? Where's the charges arising from that? I believe in LC, the victim DOES NOT need to press charges, if LE has been called..THEY can press the charges if they feel she was assaulted, they don't need the victim too.....wouldn't her parents at least have called police?? I know I would if my kid came home beat up.

Maytee's rantings on the Justice Page are getting WAY out of control. I would construe some of her postings to be threats...somebody needs to tell her to knock that off...implying that young children may be hurt?? She is a whack job and bordering (if not already) dangerous IMO

Found this kind of interesting....from the movie "Lucky Number Slevin"

Slevin kills both of them the same way they killed his father; a plastic bag, gaffa taped over their heads. Slevin also kills Detective Brikowski (Stanley Tucci) as he was the one who shot his mother, because (it's implied) he owed money to the Rabbi.

www.themoviespoiler.com/Spoilers/luckyslevin.html

(02-13-2011, 03:05 AM)penalt Wrote: VERY INTERESTING ARTICLE FROM THE TOLEDO BLADE TODAY

it prominently mentions the murderers looking for a safe in the house, one that actually did not exist:
Here is a copy of the article:


Speculation swirls in Springfield Township slayings
Experts struggle to pinpoint a motive





Zoom | Photo Reprints

By JENNIFER FEEHAN
BLADE STAFF WRITER

The brutal slayings of Lisa Straub and Johnny Clarke in a quiet Springfield Township neighborhood have more than a few people on edge.

Richard Degener lives just a few blocks from where the young couple were suffocated with plastic bags, and he said he now keeps his home-security system on during the day, double-locks the doors when he's home, and keeps a loaded shotgun by his bed.

"It's just such a heinous crime," Mr. Degener said. "You begin to feel terrified inside the sanctity of your own home."

Despite such fears, those close to the case and others who investigate or study homicide say the Jan. 31 killings do not appear to be part of some random home invasion.

Most agree that Ms. Straub, 20, and Clarke, 21, were killed by someone — probably more than one assailant — who went specifically to that house looking for something they may or may not have found. Detectives have termed it "a robbery gone bad."

"There's a lot of work involved in this. That's not random. That's targeted," said Doyle Burke, a retired Dayton homicide detective who teaches criminal investigation. "The average burglar or robber is armed, but they're not walking around with duct tape and plastic bags."

Frank Stiles, chief investigator for the Lucas County Prosecutor's Office and a retired Toledo police detective, said that when he took a drive by the Straubs' Longacre Lane home, he was struck by its location. It is not set back in a secluded spot that might appeal to a random burglar, he said.

" … That tells me they went there intentionally," Mr. Stiles said, adding there's "a good possibility" the killers knew the victims. "It gets a little personal when you put a bag over their heads. They definitely wanted them dead, that's for sure."

Autopsies showed both Ms. Straub and Clarke died of asphyxiation. Their wrists had been bound with duct tape and plastic bags were taped around their necks. Clarke's ankles also had been bound.

‘It's very rare'
The way in which they died is unusual, to say the least. Although it is not uncommon for someone to commit suicide by placing a plastic bag over his or her head, a Toledo police historian who has examined homicides back to 1916 could not recall a single case in which the victim was suffocated with a plastic bag.

Firearms are most typically used to kill people, followed by knives. In the FBI's annual "Crime in the United States" report for 2009, 9,146 of the 13,636 homicides were committed with firearms, 1,825 with knives, and 611 with blunt objects. Just 77 were asphyxiations.

"It's very rare," said Jack Levin, an author and professor of sociology and criminology at Northeastern University in Boston. "The first thing I thought of was that this looks like more than a robbery. There are cases of homicide where the motives are mixed. What begins as a profit-motivated crime can easily turn into something that has more psychological roots."



In some cases, that might be the killer's need for power and control over the victims, possibly the desire to watch and feel pleasure in seeing them suffer, Mr. Levin said.

"In most cases you'd find kind of an up-close-and-personal method like strangling with the killer's own hands," Mr. Levin said. "This is a little bit more complicated, but it has the same purpose."

Mr. Levin said the case doesn't look like a typical robbery attempt. "There are cases where a robbery goes bad and the occupants of the house are murdered, but that's usually done with a stabbing or shooting …," he said. "The killing is a means to an end. It's a way of silencing witnesses. This looks like something vastly more sadistic."

Louis B. Schlesinger, professor of forensic psychology at John Jay college of criminal justice at the City University of New York, said tying someone up and placing a plastic bag over the head "is not a typical or efficient way to kill somebody, so the first thing that comes to my mind is some sort of revenge-type killing, wanting them to suffer."

Possible motive
Family members of the victims say they are convinced the killers knew their victims and had targeted them.

Jim Verbosky, an uncle of Ms. Straub, said he is certain the killers knew that his brother-in-law and sister-in-law, Jeff and Mary Beth Straub, were out of town. He believes the killers had gone to the house to steal a safe containing cash — a safe, he insists, that didn't exist.

"There is a kitchen with an island and an open eating area that went into an open family room. That was not ransacked, but you could tell there was a fight that ensued there," he said. "Plants were knocked over. Things were broken and knocked over, but upstairs, Mary Beth and Jeff's room was ransacked to the point where it looked like a TV show. All the drawers were out, and they had punched holes in the walk-in closet looking for a safe that never existed. There was no safe."

The Straubs, who were on a Caribbean cruise to celebrate their 25^th wedding anniversary, went through the house when they returned, and the only thing missing, Mr. Verbosky said, was $84 or so in cash that they'd left in a change jar in their bedroom. Electronics, jewelry, computers were not taken.

"Everything was intact," he said. "Two computers, a laptop, a brand-new flat-screen TV — everything. If someone is going to rob something and that was their motive, all of their electronics and all that stuff would've been gone."

‘This is evil'
Clarke's mother, Maytee Vazquez-Clarke, first called 911 about 1:20 a.m. Jan. 31 after learning from a friend of her son's that he had been on the phone with a young woman whom he and Ms. Straub were supposed to pick up that night. The woman named Tiffany said she was talking to Clarke when he dropped the phone and confronted someone.

While Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke can be heard in a recording of her calls to 911 saying that Tiffany said Clarke yelled, "Who are you? What do you want?" Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said last week that he actually never said, "Who are you?" "He said, ‘What the [expletive] are you doing, bro? What are you doing here? What do you want?" Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said. "Him and Lisa knew who these people were."

It was Clarke's father, John P. Clarke, who kicked in the front door of the Straubs' home about 3:50 that morning after Lucas County sheriff's deputies twice had come to the house and found nothing amiss after an exterior inspection. He found his son and Ms. Straub between the kitchen and dining area and quickly tore the bags off their heads, but it was too late to save them.

"This is evil. This is gruesome. This was premeditated. This was planned," Mrs. Vazquez-Clarke said. She said she believes the motive "was the parents' safe and money, and they waited for the kids to be home alone."

‘Disorganized' killers
Glenn Owen, a former police officer and Army investigator from Texas who develops criminal profiles, said it appears a "disorganized" killer attacked Ms. Straub and Clarke. He cited the chaotic crime scene where the victims' bodies were left in plain sight, and the weapons — the plastic bags and duct tape — were left behind as well. He suggested the killers are young — 18 to 30 years old — and likely are high school dropouts from broken homes. They may live with an older relative, and if they work, they have nonskilled jobs at a fast-food restaurant or gas station.

Mr. Owen said that although disorganized killers rarely plan an attack, it appears some thought went into this and that they may have known the victims.

"What caught me strange about this case was the mode of death, how they killed them with the plastic bags," he said. "Usually the disorganized killer gets really [angry] and shoots someone or stabs them. To me, it appears they wanted the young couple to suffer, a slow type of suffering."

No arrests have been made in the case.

Seeking information
Last week, the Straub family established a reward fund at Fifth Third Bank where they are accepting donations to help identify and convict those responsible for the double homicide. Lucas County Sheriff James Telb also announced that his office was offering a $5,000 reward for information.

Mr. Degener, who lives a few blocks from the crime scene, said he didn't know the victims but was thinking of donating to the fund. Asked why, he said, "One, the horrible, heinous nature of this crime and the terrifying thought that this could happen to somebody who's close to you. The proximity of it to us and to those I know around here and love, and I just think these folks need to be taken off the street because they're obviously sociopaths and God knows what they could do to somebody else."

Anyone with information that may assist investigators is asked to call Crime Stoppers, 419-255-1111.

Finally an article with some substance.

"a lot of work"

"sadistic"

I said the same thing.

There was rage exhibited in these murders. Reminded me of serial killings.

(02-13-2011, 01:45 AM)Jane Wrote: I don't know what to think anymore. I spent almost an hour looking at some of Tiffany's friends' facebook pages, & I swear, it's downright depressing. All these freaks, spitting out babies, left & right. It's bad enough trying to read their crap, but the pictures are bizarre with all these children. A lot of them don't look happy either. Ugh, I'm not going back to any of those pages. These folks are scum, IMO.

And the ramblings by Maytee are starting to really freak me out, can't help it. Such low life craziness, from all of them, stemming from a murder, for all to see. Weird

TOTALLY AGREED! You say it perfectly!! it's creeping me out too! and...the myspace pages are just as disturbing. IMO: totally fu**ing white trash!

(02-13-2011, 09:33 AM)fabulous Wrote: fu**ing white trash!

You're allowed to post any & all expletives here. You won't be scolded.